Why would anyone ever pay for a V8 conversion?
#41
It was started and running before the weather got cold. I had to pull both headers and redo the flanges. I also needed to swap starters. That's done, but there's so much snow around now I'll just wait til it warms up next month. Plus I pulled the motor in my wife's Sebring because it was leaking coolant and the oil and coolant mixed so I'm putting in a 3.0 Eclipse motor. Both are sitting on a stand now. Need to finish doing the timing belt and water pump before I put it back in.
I'm just sick of this weather. Too much crap/parts packed into my garage and my motivation is low until it warms up.
Frank
I'm just sick of this weather. Too much crap/parts packed into my garage and my motivation is low until it warms up.
Frank
#43
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Comparing a boneyard LS1 and T56 with 40k miles to a factory zero mile warrantied LS3, brand new warrantied t56, brand new clutch/flywhee/wiring harness/PCMl is a bit retarded. Sorta like comparing Corky's Garrett 2871 at $1300 to an ebay Chinacharger at $300.
Newsflash. It's a lot of ******* labor. Take out dash. Cut firewall. Weld firewall. Mod trans tunnel. Wiring. More wiring. Some more wiring. Heat shrink. Solder. Fab.
I have no interest in a non-convertible Viper.
Sure I've saved a bunch of labor over FM's offering, but I'm not done yet and it's been almost a ******* year. Hell, if I could do it over, I'd probably just buy v8roadsters Moose which they're selling for $26500 with a freshly rebuilt LS6/t56.
Some people's time is worth more than others.
Frank
Newsflash. It's a lot of ******* labor. Take out dash. Cut firewall. Weld firewall. Mod trans tunnel. Wiring. More wiring. Some more wiring. Heat shrink. Solder. Fab.
I have no interest in a non-convertible Viper.
Sure I've saved a bunch of labor over FM's offering, but I'm not done yet and it's been almost a ******* year. Hell, if I could do it over, I'd probably just buy v8roadsters Moose which they're selling for $26500 with a freshly rebuilt LS6/t56.
Some people's time is worth more than others.
Frank
#44
...and? Is it not obvious that a stock low mileage LS1 is not a brand new LS3? If $30k is worth the brand new parts, good for them. I'm not that rich or dumb. If I can even save a few grand by doing it myself I will likely go that route. Not sure exactly what your argument is here though, I may be misunderstanding your meaning.
"It can be done for 1/4 of that." Bullshit.
If you can do an LS3/T56 swap with all new **** that they are including for $7500 + the price of the car, I'll take ten and turn around and sell them for $25k.
There have been 10 threads in Miata.net conversions where people come in thinking they can do an LSX swap for $7500 or less + price of the car. Guess how many have come back having successfully done it.
ZERO.
Frank
#45
I think you missed Frank's point. The people who are shopping at FM for a turn key LS powered Miata find it a lot less expensive to spend $30k on that car than to spend the time to build it themselves. The value is not so much what they're getting for the money, but what they're not wasting doing it themselves.
#46
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It wasn't obvious to you as you said:
"It can be done for 1/4 of that." Bullshit.
If you can do an LS3/T56 swap with all new **** that they are including for $7500 + the price of the car, I'll take ten and turn around and sell them for $25k.
There have been 10 threads in Miata.net conversions where people come in thinking they can do an LSX swap for $7500 or less + price of the car. Guess how many have come back having successfully done it.
ZERO.
Frank
"It can be done for 1/4 of that." Bullshit.
If you can do an LS3/T56 swap with all new **** that they are including for $7500 + the price of the car, I'll take ten and turn around and sell them for $25k.
There have been 10 threads in Miata.net conversions where people come in thinking they can do an LSX swap for $7500 or less + price of the car. Guess how many have come back having successfully done it.
ZERO.
Frank
Not to sound like a back peddler, but I did kind of mean $8,000 for the MAJOR stuff, and that was with a few hundred dollars extra thrown in. I always expect the unknown costs. I guess "get it done" sort of implied turn the key and drive off.
Either way, even if my numbers are off, I MYSELF am not the kind of person to spend $30k (not that I would spend that much anyway) on something I can get done with good condition used parts for MUCH MUCH less. I'll fudge my original numbers a bit and say 1/3. I still think I can get the basic swap done for under $10k. I'll just have to prove it. I have ways of squeezing pennies out of peoples asses. And again, I've got them mad skillz with connections.
You know how many people flew in a heavier than air aircraft before 1903.
NONE!!!
^ I understood what he was saying.
#47
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I think you missed Frank's point. The people who are shopping at FM for a turn key LS powered Miata find it a lot less expensive to spend $30k on that car than to spend the time to build it themselves. The value is not so much what they're getting for the money, but what they're not wasting doing it themselves.
For the same reasons I would never re-shingle my roof, or install my own swimming pool (no desire to do that kind of work, plus no desire to fix the mistakes I will inevitably make doing that kind of work), those people would never install a V8 in their car. It shouldn't be terribly hard to understand this.
#48
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This. The other half of it is that they don't have the experience or desire to spend several dozen hours dropping a V8 into a Miata. This seems foreign to all of us since this forum is chock full of DIYers, but there are some folks out there who don't enjoy working on cars - they enjoy owning them and driving them.
For the same reasons I would never re-shingle my roof, or install my own swimming pool (no desire to do that kind of work, plus no desire to fix the mistakes I will inevitably make doing that kind of work), those people would never install a V8 in their car. It shouldn't be terribly hard to understand this.
For the same reasons I would never re-shingle my roof, or install my own swimming pool (no desire to do that kind of work, plus no desire to fix the mistakes I will inevitably make doing that kind of work), those people would never install a V8 in their car. It shouldn't be terribly hard to understand this.
Oh, I still stand by my "anyone who spends $30k on a V8 swap is an idiot" statement. For that kind of money I could think of a lot of other **** I would rather have. But again, their money, not mine.
#49
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Some folks spend $50-$100k on custom motorcycles.
Some folks spend $100-$300k on RVs or boats.
A co-worker of mine spent roughly $45k having someone else restore a mid-70s FJ40 to showroom condition for him.
Heck, some folks buy new cars from the dealer. Priced a Toyota Camry lately? The one with the "L" slapped on the front grille starts at $35k for the base model. Add the Nav system, the fancy radio, the "Luxury" package and a few other options and you're scratching at $50k.
By those numbers, $36k for a V8 daily driver is a downright bargain.
And yeah, I can't see why this is a mystery- Sav & Frank have got it nailed. Some folks don't enjoy building cars any more than I enjoy building refrigerators. I'll gladly pay Frigidaire to do that for me.
#50
I am with Sam on the Cobra part.
To each their own, I suppose the sleeper factor and the new and wow factor of a LS3 Miata have their draw, but those Cobras are some of the most desirable cars I have ever seen IMHO. I wuld get one of their Brock concepts myself for the hardtop and aerodynamic factors. Thats a turn key car right there, with a more focused chassis to boot.
I will take a moment to laugh at 500 bucks for MISC. **** decent fluids for the engine/ driveline will cost you nearly a hundred bucks. The amount of fast orange, fast food, and beer consumed over the course of the project will eat the rest of that.
To each their own, I suppose the sleeper factor and the new and wow factor of a LS3 Miata have their draw, but those Cobras are some of the most desirable cars I have ever seen IMHO. I wuld get one of their Brock concepts myself for the hardtop and aerodynamic factors. Thats a turn key car right there, with a more focused chassis to boot.
I will take a moment to laugh at 500 bucks for MISC. **** decent fluids for the engine/ driveline will cost you nearly a hundred bucks. The amount of fast orange, fast food, and beer consumed over the course of the project will eat the rest of that.
#56
Hahaha,
I fully believe that the LS/miata SOUNDS like a perfect solution for the loosening stud/nut ordeal that the track guys deal with. As far as I can tell though, the few members here with LS1 miatas, don't track them.
I know they are bad *** tire smokers, and I understand all the reasoning why they would be great track monsters, but is there any guys actually DOING it? And are there any unknown issues, such as cooling? Etc. It would also be great to get a good drivers input, on how the car felt. Something along the lines of Savingtons review of the Kraftwerks SC, which was excellent BTW.
I fully believe that the LS/miata SOUNDS like a perfect solution for the loosening stud/nut ordeal that the track guys deal with. As far as I can tell though, the few members here with LS1 miatas, don't track them.
I know they are bad *** tire smokers, and I understand all the reasoning why they would be great track monsters, but is there any guys actually DOING it? And are there any unknown issues, such as cooling? Etc. It would also be great to get a good drivers input, on how the car felt. Something along the lines of Savingtons review of the Kraftwerks SC, which was excellent BTW.
#57
FM seems to like theirs for the track, but its not without problems:
Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project
Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project
I would not blame the engine there though.
Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project
Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project
I would not blame the engine there though.
#58
I won't be tracking mine. I just want a good weather toy. I might hit the strip a few times for bragging rights and to legally drive like an *** for 11.xx seconds but I've done all that **** before. Tracking it would be cool, but I would have purpose built it without OBDII ****, interior etc. I just want a nice fun ride.
I totally agree with the DIY approach as I like saving my money as much as anyone. And at the end of the day, there's something to be said for doing it myself. Hell I almost put my own pool in last year until the county screwed me on permits.
That said, I'm 41, have a 6 year old kid, work full time, get up at 4:30 in the morning and don't get home to 5:30 at night. I do have 3 day weekends but my wife works weekends so I have kid duty much of that. Then there's **** like home ownership, fixing tile, drywall, relaxing, having a few beers, digging out of this ******* 2 feet of snow we've had in Baltimore, etc.
Aside from the Miata I'm throwing a new motor in my wife's Sebring. My time at this point is worth more than my money. The extra $15k or so I save from DIY spread over the year it has taken to do it almost makes it not worth it. ****, I spend $150/month on DirecTV and FIOS internet.
Frank
I totally agree with the DIY approach as I like saving my money as much as anyone. And at the end of the day, there's something to be said for doing it myself. Hell I almost put my own pool in last year until the county screwed me on permits.
That said, I'm 41, have a 6 year old kid, work full time, get up at 4:30 in the morning and don't get home to 5:30 at night. I do have 3 day weekends but my wife works weekends so I have kid duty much of that. Then there's **** like home ownership, fixing tile, drywall, relaxing, having a few beers, digging out of this ******* 2 feet of snow we've had in Baltimore, etc.
Aside from the Miata I'm throwing a new motor in my wife's Sebring. My time at this point is worth more than my money. The extra $15k or so I save from DIY spread over the year it has taken to do it almost makes it not worth it. ****, I spend $150/month on DirecTV and FIOS internet.
Frank
#59
As far as doing the swap for 1/4 of that, my research shows that most are spending 15k to 20k for an LSx swap, once they add up all the actual costs. Of course, some swaps can be done for less, but that is the exception, not the rule. This was a tough decision for me because it is the most financially irresponsible thing I have ever done.
I am able to justify spending the money for several reasons. I have always been prudent when it comes to cars, I don't drive expensive cars or trade them in every few years, my OTM is a 12 year old Jeep Cherokee. I am also selling my 94 Laguna Blue to help pay for it. I don't want a Viper or a Corvette, I want a V8 Miata. I also don't have space or time to do a mod of this magnitude.
I don't have deep pockets and am by no means rich, but I do earn a good income and my only debt is my house which will be paid for in less than 2 years. I am paying cash so it results in no financial hardship and I will wind up with a basically new car. For me personally, this is a no brainer.
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