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Old 02-17-2010, 12:58 PM   #41
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It was started and running before the weather got cold. I had to pull both headers and redo the flanges. I also needed to swap starters. That's done, but there's so much snow around now I'll just wait til it warms up next month. Plus I pulled the motor in my wife's Sebring because it was leaking coolant and the oil and coolant mixed so I'm putting in a 3.0 Eclipse motor. Both are sitting on a stand now. Need to finish doing the timing belt and water pump before I put it back in.

I'm just sick of this weather. Too much crap/parts packed into my garage and my motivation is low until it warms up.

Frank
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
I looked once.. I think something like 30k..
That's all? How in the hell is F5 still in business?

That can't be right...
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:15 PM   #43
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Comparing a boneyard LS1 and T56 with 40k miles to a factory zero mile warrantied LS3, brand new warrantied t56, brand new clutch/flywhee/wiring harness/PCMl is a bit retarded. Sorta like comparing Corky's Garrett 2871 at $1300 to an ebay Chinacharger at $300.

Newsflash. It's a lot of ******* labor. Take out dash. Cut firewall. Weld firewall. Mod trans tunnel. Wiring. More wiring. Some more wiring. Heat shrink. Solder. Fab.

I have no interest in a non-convertible Viper.

Sure I've saved a bunch of labor over FM's offering, but I'm not done yet and it's been almost a ******* year. Hell, if I could do it over, I'd probably just buy v8roadsters Moose which they're selling for $26500 with a freshly rebuilt LS6/t56.

Some people's time is worth more than others.

Frank
...and? Is it not obvious that a stock low mileage LS1 is not a brand new LS3? If $30k is worth the brand new parts, good for them. I'm not that rich or dumb. If I can even save a few grand by doing it myself I will likely go that route. Not sure exactly what your argument is here though, I may be misunderstanding your meaning.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:23 PM   #44
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...and? Is it not obvious that a stock low mileage LS1 is not a brand new LS3? If $30k is worth the brand new parts, good for them. I'm not that rich or dumb. If I can even save a few grand by doing it myself I will likely go that route. Not sure exactly what your argument is here though, I may be misunderstanding your meaning.
It wasn't obvious to you as you said:

"It can be done for 1/4 of that." Bullshit.

If you can do an LS3/T56 swap with all new **** that they are including for $7500 + the price of the car, I'll take ten and turn around and sell them for $25k.

There have been 10 threads in Miata.net conversions where people come in thinking they can do an LSX swap for $7500 or less + price of the car. Guess how many have come back having successfully done it.

ZERO.

Frank
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:24 PM   #45
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I think you missed Frank's point. The people who are shopping at FM for a turn key LS powered Miata find it a lot less expensive to spend $30k on that car than to spend the time to build it themselves. The value is not so much what they're getting for the money, but what they're not wasting doing it themselves.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
It wasn't obvious to you as you said:

"It can be done for 1/4 of that." Bullshit.

If you can do an LS3/T56 swap with all new **** that they are including for $7500 + the price of the car, I'll take ten and turn around and sell them for $25k.

There have been 10 threads in Miata.net conversions where people come in thinking they can do an LSX swap for $7500 or less + price of the car. Guess how many have come back having successfully done it.

ZERO.

Frank
A V8 swap mormon, not a Brand new parts LS3 swap. Don't be getting all preachy with me bro!

Not to sound like a back peddler, but I did kind of mean $8,000 for the MAJOR stuff, and that was with a few hundred dollars extra thrown in. I always expect the unknown costs. I guess "get it done" sort of implied turn the key and drive off.

Either way, even if my numbers are off, I MYSELF am not the kind of person to spend $30k (not that I would spend that much anyway) on something I can get done with good condition used parts for MUCH MUCH less. I'll fudge my original numbers a bit and say 1/3. I still think I can get the basic swap done for under $10k. I'll just have to prove it. I have ways of squeezing pennies out of peoples asses. And again, I've got them mad skillz with connections.

You know how many people flew in a heavier than air aircraft before 1903.

NONE!!!

^ I understood what he was saying.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
I think you missed Frank's point. The people who are shopping at FM for a turn key LS powered Miata find it a lot less expensive to spend $30k on that car than to spend the time to build it themselves. The value is not so much what they're getting for the money, but what they're not wasting doing it themselves.
This. The other half of it is that they don't have the experience or desire to spend several dozen hours dropping a V8 into a Miata. This seems foreign to all of us since this forum is chock full of DIYers, but there are some folks out there who don't enjoy working on cars - they enjoy owning them and driving them.

For the same reasons I would never re-shingle my roof, or install my own swimming pool (no desire to do that kind of work, plus no desire to fix the mistakes I will inevitably make doing that kind of work), those people would never install a V8 in their car. It shouldn't be terribly hard to understand this.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:32 PM   #48
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This. The other half of it is that they don't have the experience or desire to spend several dozen hours dropping a V8 into a Miata. This seems foreign to all of us since this forum is chock full of DIYers, but there are some folks out there who don't enjoy working on cars - they enjoy owning them and driving them.

For the same reasons I would never re-shingle my roof, or install my own swimming pool (no desire to do that kind of work, plus no desire to fix the mistakes I will inevitably make doing that kind of work), those people would never install a V8 in their car. It shouldn't be terribly hard to understand this.
I can understand that fully. I guess it just doesn't feel right to me to spend that kind of money on something I can do myself with a little reading up and know how. It also just doesn't seem as satisfying having someone else do something for you. To me half of the enjoyment is standing back when it's all done and admiring your handy work. Even if only for a few thousand miles until something breaks. Anything I didn't know how to do, I learned. Plus I come from a long family of DIYers (cheap asses more or less) and know how to do just about anything involving my hands (yes that too Hustler ) so I just couldn't spend $30k on an engine swap into a nearly 20 year old car. Even if I had the money to do it, I wouldn't do it. But again, I can understand for those people who can afford it and don't have the know how. I just think some of the people who do buy stuff like this maybe could do it themselves, they just don't have the will to learn or try. If that is their choice, good for them.

Oh, I still stand by my "anyone who spends $30k on a V8 swap is an idiot" statement. For that kind of money I could think of a lot of other **** I would rather have. But again, their money, not mine.
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:47 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
I still stand by my "anyone who spends $30k on a V8 swap is an idiot" statement. For that kind of money I could think of a lot of other **** I would rather have. But again, their money, not mine.
People like what they like, and there's simply no accounting for it.

Some folks spend $50-$100k on custom motorcycles.

Some folks spend $100-$300k on RVs or boats.

A co-worker of mine spent roughly $45k having someone else restore a mid-70s FJ40 to showroom condition for him.


Heck, some folks buy new cars from the dealer. Priced a Toyota Camry lately? The one with the "L" slapped on the front grille starts at $35k for the base model. Add the Nav system, the fancy radio, the "Luxury" package and a few other options and you're scratching at $50k.


By those numbers, $36k for a V8 daily driver is a downright bargain.


And yeah, I can't see why this is a mystery- Sav & Frank have got it nailed. Some folks don't enjoy building cars any more than I enjoy building refrigerators. I'll gladly pay Frigidaire to do that for me.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:01 PM   #50
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I am with Sam on the Cobra part.

To each their own, I suppose the sleeper factor and the new and wow factor of a LS3 Miata have their draw, but those Cobras are some of the most desirable cars I have ever seen IMHO. I wuld get one of their Brock concepts myself for the hardtop and aerodynamic factors. Thats a turn key car right there, with a more focused chassis to boot.

I will take a moment to laugh at 500 bucks for MISC. **** decent fluids for the engine/ driveline will cost you nearly a hundred bucks. The amount of fast orange, fast food, and beer consumed over the course of the project will eat the rest of that.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:23 PM   #51
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Just wondering, are any of our LS miata members tracking their cars? Any feedback on how a LS powered miata fairs as a track toy, compared to a well built turbo car?
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:25 PM   #52
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And yeah, I can't see why this is a mystery- Sav & Frank have got it nailed. Some folks don't enjoy building cars any more than I enjoy building refrigerators. I'll gladly pay Frigidaire to do that for me.
Where is the mystery? I said I see the point made, but it's not something I would personally do.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:26 PM   #53
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Just wondering, are any of our LS miata members tracking their cars? Any feedback on how a LS powered miata fairs as a track toy, compared to a well built turbo car?
They suck. Loose nuts and external piston rods are much better.
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:16 PM   #54
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:32 PM   #55
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Come on, I've had a long day, just play along.
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
They suck. Loose nuts and external piston rods are much better.
Hahaha,

I fully believe that the LS/miata SOUNDS like a perfect solution for the loosening stud/nut ordeal that the track guys deal with. As far as I can tell though, the few members here with LS1 miatas, don't track them.

I know they are bad *** tire smokers, and I understand all the reasoning why they would be great track monsters, but is there any guys actually DOING it? And are there any unknown issues, such as cooling? Etc. It would also be great to get a good drivers input, on how the car felt. Something along the lines of Savingtons review of the Kraftwerks SC, which was excellent BTW.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:21 PM   #57
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FM seems to like theirs for the track, but its not without problems:

Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project

Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project

I would not blame the engine there though.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #58
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I won't be tracking mine. I just want a good weather toy. I might hit the strip a few times for bragging rights and to legally drive like an *** for 11.xx seconds but I've done all that **** before. Tracking it would be cool, but I would have purpose built it without OBDII ****, interior etc. I just want a nice fun ride.

I totally agree with the DIY approach as I like saving my money as much as anyone. And at the end of the day, there's something to be said for doing it myself. Hell I almost put my own pool in last year until the county screwed me on permits.

That said, I'm 41, have a 6 year old kid, work full time, get up at 4:30 in the morning and don't get home to 5:30 at night. I do have 3 day weekends but my wife works weekends so I have kid duty much of that. Then there's **** like home ownership, fixing tile, drywall, relaxing, having a few beers, digging out of this ******* 2 feet of snow we've had in Baltimore, etc.

Aside from the Miata I'm throwing a new motor in my wife's Sebring. My time at this point is worth more than my money. The extra $15k or so I save from DIY spread over the year it has taken to do it almost makes it not worth it. ****, I spend $150/month on DirecTV and FIOS internet.

Frank
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:36 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Anybody who spends $30k on a V8 swap in a Miata is an idiot anyway. It can be done for 1/4 that. ...
I understand why you say that, when I was in my 20's,I would have said the same thing because spending that much money on a mod would have been unimaginable. I'm at a later stage in my life, as you age constraints and perspective changes . I'm on the waiting list to have FM do a V8 swap on my car and I'm certainly not an idiot.

As far as doing the swap for 1/4 of that, my research shows that most are spending 15k to 20k for an LSx swap, once they add up all the actual costs. Of course, some swaps can be done for less, but that is the exception, not the rule. This was a tough decision for me because it is the most financially irresponsible thing I have ever done.

I am able to justify spending the money for several reasons. I have always been prudent when it comes to cars, I don't drive expensive cars or trade them in every few years, my OTM is a 12 year old Jeep Cherokee. I am also selling my 94 Laguna Blue to help pay for it. I don't want a Viper or a Corvette, I want a V8 Miata. I also don't have space or time to do a mod of this magnitude.

I don't have deep pockets and am by no means rich, but I do earn a good income and my only debt is my house which will be paid for in less than 2 years. I am paying cash so it results in no financial hardship and I will wind up with a basically new car. For me personally, this is a no brainer.
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