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Old 03-07-2014, 07:15 PM   #4261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Can you get a G19 in 0.40 cal?

My uncle is a Nevada Sheriff and I know his standard issue is a 0.40 cal Glock, but I'm not sure which model. Apparently the law enforcement where he is prefers the 0.40 cal for combination of stopping power, shootability, size, etc. etc. etc.

What's the price difference, long-term of a 9mm versus a 0.40? Initial purchase price + maintenance + ammo, etc. etc. etc.

Is the 0.40cal 20% more overall cost of ownership, 25%, 40%?

Spoon feed me

PLZ?

.40 s&w is a potent round, I like my CCW semi-autos in .40

9mm vs .40 in price is a little different, 9mm usually being cheaper but it is a significantly smaller round.

The .40 has a little more recoil than a 9mm, but a little less stopping power of a .45, basically.

Also, from what I experienced is that .40 tends to cycle better than 9mm varients
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:21 PM   #4262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Can you get a G19 in 0.40 cal?

My uncle is a Nevada Sheriff and I know his standard issue is a 0.40 cal Glock, but I'm not sure which model. Apparently the law enforcement where he is prefers the 0.40 cal for combination of stopping power, shootability, size, etc. etc. etc.

What's the price difference, long-term of a 9mm versus a 0.40? Initial purchase price + maintenance + ammo, etc. etc. etc.

Is the 0.40cal 20% more overall cost of ownership, 25%, 40%?

Spoon feed me

PLZ?
Cheapest 9mm I can find is .23c a round. Cheapest .40 short and weak is .27c a round. If you shoot the cheap 9mm for practice and use the good stuff for defense, you'll come out ahead with 9mm. Remember you can get 9mm in +p if you feel you need more power. Check out ammoseek.com to find the prices of the ammo you want to shoot to decide for yourself.
.40 is supposed to wear on the gun more then 9 b/c it's a higher pressure round, no idea if this is true or not.
The Glock 22 is the .40 version of the 9mm standard sized G17, and the G23 is the compact .40 cal, comparable to the G19. I have a Gen 4 19 which I like. I never seriously considered .40, just 9mm, .45acp and .38 special +p.

I have never experienced a stoppage of any sort in my G19, and I shoot some cheap shitty ammo.
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:18 AM   #4263
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Originally Posted by gearhead_318 View Post
I have never experienced a stoppage of any sort in my G19, and I shoot some cheap shitty ammo.
I'll concur this. I've had 2 failures to eject with my G19, both of them due to improperly seated primers on my handloads... and I've since added another step to my quality control while reloading to prevent this. I've got about 2500rds of factory ammo through it with zero failures to feed/eject.

The purchase price of the gun is the same... Glock has a very straightforward pricing structure... their 9mm and .40cal models are all basically the same price regardless of model. A civilian can expect to pay anywhere from $500-$600 for a new 9mm or .40cal Glock, while LEO/Mil get a discount of about $100.

9mm ammo is a pinch more expensive to shoot, and is a more capable caliber. .40cal was developed in the mid 1980's by S&W as a response to an FBI need for something more powerful than 9mm, but with more capacity than .45. The "FBI ballistics tests" are kinda benchmarks on how a round performs. It includes not only how the round performs in flesh, but also barrier penetration through many different solid objects (like windshields) and plywood.

As for maintenance on a Glock... as long as you clean it every few thousand rounds, theoretically, it should last forever. I perform a minor cleaning every trip to the range that amounts to removing the slide/barrel and just wiping stuff down... and I do a complete breakdown every 5k rounds (which I've done once with my G19). It's almost impossible to wear out a pistol barrel. As with all guns, wear parts include various springs and minor internal parts that you can replace on a timeline, or when they break. The average person will probably never shoot more than a few thousand (or even a few hundred) rounds from a pistol in it's lifetime, while the gun itself should be capable of 50k rounds before needing to replace a part (that's $10k worth of ammo through a $500 gun by the way).
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:03 AM   #4264
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I concur on the G19. I've had my gen 3 since 2000 and have put maybe 6000 rds through it. Great little gun.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:43 AM   #4265
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I've been lusting after a g19 for a while now. Would you bother with considering a gen 4 given its initial spring issues? Gen 3 seems tried and true and there are still new ones for sale so I lean in that direction. I've got small hands so the grip adjustability of the 4 isn't a pro for me.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:55 PM   #4266
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Mine is a gen 4, I know of no internal spring issues. I google'd it and got a hit from 2012 and 2011. Looks like its been resolved.
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:43 PM   #4267
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So my take is as of 2014, there is no good reason to buy a 0.40cal Glock over the 9mm G19?

I'm not really in the market for a hand-gun, just at the very early stages.

In other news I was offered a job at Remington's R&D center as a Metallurgist. Unfortunately I turned it down, but it seemed like an awesome job. The DoD and Law Enforcement work they do seemed especially awesome Anyone ever shot their version of the 1911?
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:15 PM   #4268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
So my take is as of 2014, there is no good reason to buy a 0.40cal Glock over the 9mm G19?
In my opinion, no. To me the difference in ballistics is so minor and you lose several rounds in a magazine and to me 40S&W is unpleasant to shoot in a polymer pistol. I had a SigP226 that was GREAT in 40S&W and 357sig but having owned and shot a handful of the polymer 40s I don't see enough of a benefit to outweigh the negatives. But that is just my opinion.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:24 PM   #4269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
So my take is as of 2014, there is no good reason to buy a 0.40cal Glock over the 9mm G19?

I'm not really in the market for a hand-gun, just at the very early stages.

In other news I was offered a job at Remington's R&D center as a Metallurgist. Unfortunately I turned it down, but it seemed like an awesome job. The DoD and Law Enforcement work they do seemed especially awesome Anyone ever shot their version of the 1911?
The choice of 9mm vs. .40cal for self-defense is all academic... and since the .40cal vs. .45acp debate is also academic, it's tough to make a bad decision about caliber nowadays if you stick with the mainstream semi-auto pistol choices. The end-all final debate comes down to whether or not you really want the few extra rounds of 9mm vs. the better penetration/damage of .40/.45... the debate has been the same since the early 80's when police dept's started adopting the 9mm en masse as their primary caliber.

The bottom line is that if you shoot a lightly clothed bad guy in the chest twice with a modern self-defense caliber (unless he's on PCP), he's no longer going to be a threat. I really hope he survives, but the actions he's engaging in that cause you to fear for your life are probably over. YES, THERE ARE STORIES OF GUYS TAKING AN ENTIRE REVOLVER WORTH OF .357 IN THE HEART WHO STILL KEPT COMING... but you can't carry a howitzer around with you, so there's always going to be some scenario that can be debated about how your particular choice "won't cut it" when the SHTF.

I everydaycarry (EDC) a bone-stock G19 with 147gr Remington JHP's, nothing special. I've been waiting until the wife isn't looking at our Amazon account so I can buy a set of Trijicon nite-sights, but she's a bit psychic, so I haven't been able to slip it by her.

I have absolute faith in my G19 and I practice regularly. I would also have absolute faith in my G23 and would practice regularly... but I would also have 2 less rounds.

Your decision may also come down to other choices. I EDC my G19, and it's also my nightstand gun... it does everything for me. I honestly think I'd prefer a FULL-SIZE gun for night-stand duty, and have it equipped with a dual light-laser attachment... and I would choose a G22 .40cal for the added energy in the full-size gun where I got more capacity... but would still EDC the G19.

I will reiterate that it's difficult to make a bad choice if you stick to major brand names in 9mm or .40cal.

THE SPRING ISSUE... the first batch of XX thousand Gen4 9mm Glocks had FTF/FTE issues due to recoil springs that were too soft. It only happened on some guns with some types of ammo, but it was significant enough that Glock offered free replacement springs of the Gen3 design while they fixed the Gen4 design. Unless you were an "early adopter" of the Gen4, this doesn't affect you.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:43 PM   #4270
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The bottom line is that if you shoot a lightly clothed bad guy in the chest twice with a modern self-defense caliber (unless he's on PCP), he's no longer going to be a threat. I really hope he survives, but the actions he's engaging in that cause you to fear for your life are probably over. YES, THERE ARE STORIES OF GUYS TAKING AN ENTIRE REVOLVER WORTH OF .357 IN THE HEART WHO STILL KEPT COMING... but you can't carry a howitzer around with you, so there's always going to be some scenario that can be debated about how your particular choice "won't cut it" when the SHTF.
This is a fallacy. You can easily fit a 10mm Glock on your person.

Also if you shoot a somebody that is on X drug that makes them the Hulk in the T box they will drop. That being said, ain't nobody gonna do that in real life, maybe some people who drop bodies for a living, but not your average Joe.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:54 PM   #4271
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Sam, why nightstand pistol as opposed to nightstand carbine or something? Just curious about your reasoning.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:33 AM   #4272
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Sam, why nightstand pistol as opposed to nightstand carbine or something? Just curious about your reasoning.
It's all a compromise... you gotta do the math and make a call.

If we're talking about the proverbial "bump in the night", I can sit up, reach out my right hand, and have my ready-to-fire G19 in my hand and aimed at the door in about a second. If that second is important, a long-gun gets me killed. When I get up in the morning, the G19 either goes in the safe, or on my belt depending on if I'm going to work or headed out (or showering or whatever). I also have a 500lumen flashlight that doubles as a striking weapons that goes in my left hand.

Firing from my bedroom down the hallway, any round will need to penetrate at least 2 walls prior to entering my kids rooms if I miss... I don't want to test the penetration of 5.56 or #4buck, but feel reasonably sure that my 147gr (non+P) HP's are "safer".

I also have an AR15 and Mav88 on-call within a few feet of the bed that will require chambering a round before firing. If I have the seconds to bring one of those into play, I will consider it.

As I jump out of bed, my wife will retrieve a long-gun and immediately call 911 while assuming a defensive position within the room that covers the hallway if I need to go downstairs, which barring a circumstance I have yet to imagine, would never happen. Stay upstairs and wait for police to arrive... attempting to clear your own home if there really is a bad-guy inside who intends to kill you is suicide.

There are other situations we can talk about if you want... like a life-threatening situation outside (or a neighbor is shouting for help) where I would take a long-gun as a primary weapon... but for inside-the-house, my pistol is a better first choice.

That being said, I often quote Oleg Volk with the following pic... but 9mm+P's from a 16" barrel are no joke, so consider that for pistol-caliber carbines.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:48 AM   #4273
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I went 9mm for my M&P(cc and duty weapon) simply because of round count. It's also my first choice at night for the ecsct same reasons Sam mentioned. Though my AR is right beside the door to the hallway.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:06 AM   #4274
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I have heard people I respect claim that .223 will penetrate fewer walls than 9mm.

I will have to double check.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:35 AM   #4275
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I'd be more worried about the 223 and where it would tumble to I didn't expect.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:44 AM   #4276
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I keep a 45 on the night stand and a 12 gauge pump riot gun (8 rounds, short barrel) under the bed. My wife has a 357 magnum on her desk. I have an old 20 gauge bolt action (3 rounds) sawed off upstairs by my desk. IMHO, a pistol is the best home protection due to the size. I leave the AR in the safe. I just don't see any way you can get through my bedroom door with 45s coming at you. I'm not going to run down the hallway chasing you so there isn't a reason to pull anything else out.

FWIW, the weapons I listed above were not picked due to them being the perfect choice for each location. They happen to be what I have laying around. In the past couple of years I have had everything from a 22 semi-auto pistol, to a 38 Special, to a CZ-52 sitting on the night stand (probably 5 or 6 other pistols have been there at one time or another).


Watch some youtube wall penetration videos before listening to people or assuming things. You will be surprised at the results.
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:57 PM   #4277
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When I'm on leave I have the G19 next to my bed along with the AR. The AK47 is nearby but i prefer the shorter AR. The 7.62x39 would go through all the things so its a no go for self defense.
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Old 03-09-2014, 06:50 PM   #4278
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My 17-round M&P 9 is my nightstand gun, and my remington 870 is under the bed with mounted EOTech and 6 PDX Shells in the magazine. Shotgun trigger mechanism stays in the "fired" position, so I don't have to fumble around with the magazine release to chamber a shell.


My impressively accurate 30-round AR is safely locked away in the basement. I can think of no night time home defense scenario where the AR will perform better in a given situation than the combination of handgun and shotgun available. If I gave my wife a gun, it would be the shotgun, as she isn't yet comfortable with a handgun, and I would have her retreat into the master bathroom with her phone (911) and position her so that she has a clear view of me, but no view of the bedroom door. I don't trust her ability to make a split second "friend-foe" decision if someone were to open the bedroom door while she had a gun pointed at it, but she could probably get a very clear perception of "friend-foe" in 1/2 to 3/4 of a second by judging from my actions.

In all reality, if someone really did break into my home, the shotgun is far more likely to get stolen than used. No intelligent thief breaks into a home at night unless the intent is directed at the occupants.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:17 AM   #4279
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Mine is my "couch gun", it stays in an armrest. Only thing I've done is a laser and a tacticool paintjob. Oh and mags are generally a bit pricey.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:25 AM   #4280
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Such morons.......some article mentioned that the ban on gun sales in Houston was designed to keep criminals from getting guns. But do they really think the average crooks/murderers/thieves go to the local gun stores to get their weaponry? These guys are so far removed from reality that it's scary.
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