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Old 01-24-2015, 10:39 PM   #4801
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Sam, did you ever shoot any of the copper 223's? They still have them on sale and I was thinking about another 1250 piece order.
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Old 01-25-2015, 01:20 AM   #4802
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^Funny you ask, I just bought another 600ct this morning. But no, havent loaded any up. But yesterday morning I ordered the rail for a new build and will definitely do some testing witht the all-copper stuff. It should be another few weeks before I get some data. The limited reviews I've read indicates they're good to go, but real test will be when I can get them out to 300yds and see. I'll have 1800 to load and shoot when these get here, so hopefully they fly straight.
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Old 01-25-2015, 06:25 AM   #4803
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I purchased 1250 to start with and have only shot around 15 of them (problems with the AR). From what I saw on those 15, they were not as accurate as my store bought loads but who knows what will happen when they go through a fixed rifle. The price on these are going to spoil me so I'm thinking about getting another 1250 and just be done with it as far as 223.

Yeah, screw it. I'll place my order now...
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Old 01-25-2015, 05:10 PM   #4804
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My buddy just brought over his Forster. Ill load up a 50rd ladder tonight and be all ready for some testing by the end of the week. Break-in my new barrel with some cheap Aguila and then we'll see. My new 18x Bushnell should let me see what those bullets can do. Like I said, Ill he happy wit 1moa on my good handloads... means still well under 2moa on my Dillon at 300rds/hr.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:40 PM   #4805
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When you say copper if you're talking about something like Barnes bullets, you have to seat them differently than a standard jacketed lead bullet. That's all I hunt with so I've used them extensively. Barnes says the seating depth should be .030-.070" off the lands. I always find that they need to be at LEAST .050" off the lands to shoot, and if I have to go up to .100" off they'll still shoot when I find the right powder charge. They've put a lot of meat in my freezer.
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Old 01-26-2015, 03:20 PM   #4806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usd2bfst View Post
When you say copper if you're talking about something like Barnes bullets, you have to seat them differently than a standard jacketed lead bullet. That's all I hunt with so I've used them extensively. Barnes says the seating depth should be .030-.070" off the lands. I always find that they need to be at LEAST .050" off the lands to shoot, and if I have to go up to .100" off they'll still shoot when I find the right powder charge. They've put a lot of meat in my freezer.
Have you played with compressed loads before? These bullets we're talking about are all-copper .223 and are very long-for-weight. I got a little too drunk last night and did some equipment set-up but no actual loading. Since there's no real data on these bullets on the net, using results from similar Barnes loads seems like a good place to start. I'm hoping that I find a sweet spot with these where I can get a full-power load, not compressed, still fit in the magazine, AND are far enough off the lands for accuracy. Like I said before... in the neighborhood of 1MOA will make me happy... for the price of these bullets, I'm not gonna complain too loud if not.
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Old 01-26-2015, 03:51 PM   #4807
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I also tried the Nosler E-tip bullets but they don't have the grooves cut in them like the Barnes & I had some nasty pressure issues. In hind sight if I would have set the jump way back it may have done better, or maybe gone to a powder slower than you would normally use in that cartridge. I did that in my Swedish with the Barnes bullets, stepped all the way down to H1000 & it shoots excellent.

Yes, I've played with compressed loads. I tend to use the slowest powder I can since it gives me generally the lowest ES. All of my Varget 223 loads are compressed, I think stick powders will compress no problem as long as the charge weight is safe. Once I start to compress sometimes I have to check my OAL & adjust my die, though.

Some powders however won't compress such as the AA9 I use in my 10mm loads. More ball powders are probably this way.

Also remember length, not weight, determines how happy a bullet will be with your twist rate.

I have most every loading manual, my Hornady manual is generally the most accurate when I compare my final load to all the different books. It's a good place to start.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:50 AM   #4808
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I agree that the scope and or mounts sound suspect. I would try a cheap scope or even iron sights and see if it's more consistent.

As for cleaning the carbon, the brass punch should be fine, it's not as hard as the barrel, so unless you wail on it, you're unlikely to cause damage.
Went to the range this morning (30 degrees - brrr). After cleaning the crown the rifle still shot like ****. I swapped the scope and mounts out. Yep, still shot like ****. I'll tear the rifle down this week and see if I can find anything. Other than a loose barrel what should I be checking?
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:52 AM   #4809
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Went to the range this morning (30 degrees - brrr). After cleaning the crown the rifle still shot like ****. I swapped the scope and mounts out. Yep, still shot like ****. I'll tear the rifle down this week and see if I can find anything. Other than a loose barrel what should I be checking?
Late to the party... But define 'shot like ****'. I might have a few other ideas that it could potentially be.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:17 PM   #4810
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
Went to the range this morning (30 degrees - brrr). After cleaning the crown the rifle still shot like ****. I swapped the scope and mounts out. Yep, still shot like ****. I'll tear the rifle down this week and see if I can find anything. Other than a loose barrel what should I be checking?
At least we're ruling things out. I wonder how many rounds have been fired through the barrel... maybe it's shot out?
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:28 PM   #4811
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At least we're ruling things out. I wonder how many rounds have been fired through the barrel... maybe it's shot out?
Could be. I know they are "disposable" but I am not sure how many rounds it takes. I looked down the barrel and it looked ok to me but what the hell do I know. I'll take another peak at it today. Cleaning/sorting brass right now. Had a nice booty at the range this morning.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:43 PM   #4812
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Could be. I know they are "disposable" but I am not sure how many rounds it takes. I looked down the barrel and it looked ok to me but what the hell do I know. I'll take another peak at it today. Cleaning/sorting brass right now. Had a nice booty at the range this morning.
Wish you were up here in the Upstate... We could take a look at it for you and possibly find a solution for ya. I work part-time at Palmetto State Defense out of Greer, SC for reference.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:57 PM   #4813
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Do I just pay $100 for a new PSA barrel? I think I am kidding myself that I can take this apart and torque the barrel down and have it magically fix itself.

FWIW, I have the upper sitting here and I have been beating the hell out of the pins holding the front sight on so I could check the torque. What is the secret on taking this thing apart?
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:27 PM   #4814
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FWIW, I have the upper sitting here and I have been beating the hell out of the pins holding the front sight on so I could check the torque. What is the secret on taking this thing apart?
Are you talking about the two pins at the base of the site block? You do not need to remove those to check barrel torque. There is a roll pin that holds the gas tube in place. Punch it out, then remove the gas tube. You should be able to check it then on the barrel nut. This roll pin is located on the front site/gas block.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:21 PM   #4815
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Yes, that is what I am talking about. I figured it would be easier to punch the sight block pins out since they were larger. Thanks!
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:29 PM   #4816
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Yes, that is what I am talking about. I figured it would be easier to punch the sight block pins out since they were larger. Thanks!
No problem man. Roll pin should just knock right out. Those sight block pins usually have to be milled out in most cases.
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:17 PM   #4817
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Yep, knocked right out (I didn't think I had a punch that small). Anyway, I caught hell getting the gas tube out. Had to end up putting it in a vice. I tightened the barrel nut to 60 pounds but forgot about lining the holes up. I guess that is why there is a large range for the torque value on that nut. I have to run for a while so I will try it again tomorrow. I don't think that is the problem with the rifle since the nut seemed pretty tight to start with. Any reason to take the barrel off and start over?
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:38 PM   #4818
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Yep, knocked right out (I didn't think I had a punch that small). Anyway, I caught hell getting the gas tube out. Had to end up putting it in a vice. I tightened the barrel nut to 60 pounds but forgot about lining the holes up. I guess that is why there is a large range for the torque value on that nut. I have to run for a while so I will try it again tomorrow. I don't think that is the problem with the rifle since the nut seemed pretty tight to start with. Any reason to take the barrel off and start over?
Yep. Nothing is more disappointing than torquing past where the barrel but allows the gas tube through. Trust me, after assembling over 150 uppers one night, no one knows your pain quite like myself. Haha!
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:08 PM   #4819
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Im glad you didnt actually manage to punch the sight-block pins out. They are usually tapered and only go in/out one direction, and aren't generally considered re-usable afaik.
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:17 PM   #4820
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Im glad you didnt actually manage to punch the sight-block pins out. They are usually tapered and only go in/out one direction, and aren't generally considered re-usable afaik.
They are supposed to be tapered. Not ALL manufacturers use tapered ones though. But the likelihood of removing them by hand with a punch is quite low most of the time.
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