Yet Another Gun Thread
03-02-2015, 02:58 PM
#4902
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 1,204
Total Cats: 296
I've been wanting a 7.62x39 bolt action for a while for a lightweight, mid-caliber "scout" type rifle that I can toss in the truck, or take on wilderness hikes. I've got an AK, and I've got tons of x39 ammo, so I wanted something that can shoot steel case, but I can also handload brass case if I want more precision or hunting capability. It can also get tossed in the car for road trips to states where AR/AK rifles are frightening to the sheeple and illegal.
Unfortunately, bolt guns in 7.62x39 are few and far between. Out of desperation, I had decided to pick up one of the Zastava 'MiniMausers' at JGSales. I had actually completed the paperwork, and they were doing the telephone background check when I saw a guy unboxing a CZ 527 down the counter...
It was more $$, and a youth model, but definitely a much nicer rifle. Super light, beautifully made, and I like a short length of pull anyway from all my AR training. So I ponied up the extra cheese and took it home...
I took a quick trip to the range last week to make sure it went bang, and it does. The set trigger is really nice, but the open sights are not very good for precision, with the front sight covering the entire bull at 100yds. At that distance, I was around 3 MOA, but I expect that will improve dramatically with better sights/optics. Numerous folks online report 1-1.5 MOA with optics. It's really too light for target shooting, but excellent for quick shots. Nice, light recoil. Interestingly, it grouped better with steel case HP than it did with brass case FMJ, both "Red Army" brand.
Plans are for a forward mounted 'scout' optic, probably 2-7x, which I've used before and really liked. I have a XS scout mount on the way. I also plan to add a peep sight to the rear of the reciever as a backup. The barrel mounted rear sight will be covered by the scout mount, and the blade rear sucks anyway. I'll report more when I get the optic mounted up.
Unfortunately, bolt guns in 7.62x39 are few and far between. Out of desperation, I had decided to pick up one of the Zastava 'MiniMausers' at JGSales. I had actually completed the paperwork, and they were doing the telephone background check when I saw a guy unboxing a CZ 527 down the counter...
It was more $$, and a youth model, but definitely a much nicer rifle. Super light, beautifully made, and I like a short length of pull anyway from all my AR training. So I ponied up the extra cheese and took it home...
I took a quick trip to the range last week to make sure it went bang, and it does. The set trigger is really nice, but the open sights are not very good for precision, with the front sight covering the entire bull at 100yds. At that distance, I was around 3 MOA, but I expect that will improve dramatically with better sights/optics. Numerous folks online report 1-1.5 MOA with optics. It's really too light for target shooting, but excellent for quick shots. Nice, light recoil. Interestingly, it grouped better with steel case HP than it did with brass case FMJ, both "Red Army" brand.
Plans are for a forward mounted 'scout' optic, probably 2-7x, which I've used before and really liked. I have a XS scout mount on the way. I also plan to add a peep sight to the rear of the reciever as a backup. The barrel mounted rear sight will be covered by the scout mount, and the blade rear sucks anyway. I'll report more when I get the optic mounted up.
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03-02-2015, 03:49 PM
#4904
Former Vendor
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 2
I love that CZ. I seriously considered selling my SKS to fund one. Looking forward to the range report.
On another note, I picked up a new G19 Gen4 on Saturday.
Probably a *bit* big for summertime carry, but it's such a great gun.
On another note, I picked up a new G19 Gen4 on Saturday.
Probably a *bit* big for summertime carry, but it's such a great gun.
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03-04-2015, 02:42 PM
#4905
On a completely unrelated note, I have a few hundred bucks to spend at cheaperthandirt (I know, they're price gouging ********) but my ADD is kicking in.
.308 AR-10 for taking hogs?
lightweight AR-15 for ***** and giggles?
spend it all on ammo?
oh, that laserlyte trainer looks nice
volquartsen trigger for the 10/22?
**** my first world problems.
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03-05-2015, 01:19 PM
#4906
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 1,204
Total Cats: 296
Got the scope mount in, so I did a little garage gunsmithing on the CZ...
The XS Scout mount slides over the barrel and up against the receiver. It's fixed in place by Acraglas epoxy from Brownells. This is the same stuff gunsmiths have been using to bed actions for 50+ years, so it's good stuff, and up to the task. Set screws hold it in place while the epoxy cures.
I had to remove the front sight and rear blade, and discovered the rear sight boss was interfering with the mount and preventing it from sitting parallel to the barrel (I was expecting this). First, I ground the sight base down enough to clear the mount.
This is how the mount will sit on the barreled action:
It kind of hurts to do this to a brand new gun, but it's necessary for proper adhesion of the epoxy...
Acraglas is on order, so I hope to get it all installed next week sometime. Then I get to start working on inletting the stock to accept the larger diameter of the mount.
The XS Scout mount slides over the barrel and up against the receiver. It's fixed in place by Acraglas epoxy from Brownells. This is the same stuff gunsmiths have been using to bed actions for 50+ years, so it's good stuff, and up to the task. Set screws hold it in place while the epoxy cures.
I had to remove the front sight and rear blade, and discovered the rear sight boss was interfering with the mount and preventing it from sitting parallel to the barrel (I was expecting this). First, I ground the sight base down enough to clear the mount.
This is how the mount will sit on the barreled action:
It kind of hurts to do this to a brand new gun, but it's necessary for proper adhesion of the epoxy...
Acraglas is on order, so I hope to get it all installed next week sometime. Then I get to start working on inletting the stock to accept the larger diameter of the mount.
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03-07-2015, 06:11 PM
#4907
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
So I went to the range today with a friend who wanted to shoot and I made the mistake of looking at stuff in the retail section. Lo and behold they had a S&W Shield in 9mm. The wife got to handle one of these the last time she was in Reno and told me that if I saw one to buy it. The price tag said $499 and yet a quick search of the internet showed $469 as the MSRP. Remember this is the ONE "CA Compliant" model of the Shield in 9mm (SKU 187021.)So of course while handling it I made a comment to the sales guy about how I was interested, but I was surprised the price was listed over MSRP. My wife even indicated that the one she had handled in Reno was under $400. The man mountain IMMEDIATELY got into a huff about how unique the gun is, how this is the only model for sale in California and how they can never get them in stock and that it had only been on the shelf for 15 minutes before I got there and I better buy it or someone else would because it would be gone by the end of the day. I of course walked away, but it got me thinking.
So this begs the inevitable questions for you non CA bros: What does a new 9mm Shield cost in a "free state" and how hard are they to get? What does supply look like currently? Is this one of those things that vendors just can't get, or is this artificial CA scarcity?
So this begs the inevitable questions for you non CA bros: What does a new 9mm Shield cost in a "free state" and how hard are they to get? What does supply look like currently? Is this one of those things that vendors just can't get, or is this artificial CA scarcity?
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03-08-2015, 09:21 PM
#4908
Buds shows 9mm for $369 and .40 for $380. They have the Cali .40 in stock for $411. Those prices all include shipping to your FFL. No shortage of Shields here in VA, nor do I suspect anywhere outside CA.
I absolutely belive the guy at the store. You may never see one again. As more and more handguns fall off the roster monthly, demand will always be greater than supply. Now that Ruger(LC9) has pulled out and the G42 wont be certified, the Shield will be as scarce as unicorn poop.
I absolutely belive the guy at the store. You may never see one again. As more and more handguns fall off the roster monthly, demand will always be greater than supply. Now that Ruger(LC9) has pulled out and the G42 wont be certified, the Shield will be as scarce as unicorn poop.
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03-09-2015, 11:21 PM
#4909
I think PSA has the 9mm Shield for $339 right now.
In other news:
I took the new Ho-Point 9mm carbine to the range this morning. I shot 4 different rounds:
1) Store bought 115 grain Remington
2) 4.2 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
3) 4.6 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
4) 4.9 grain 1.125" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
This was my first time doing hand loads for the 9mm and the first time I had shot the rifle. I don't have my numbers in front of my but the Remington shot a 0.75" group at 10 yards. Each hand load shot around a 1.5" group. I'll start tuning off the 4.2 grain to save powder. The rifle had a rather irritating slap in the face each time you fired. I've seen companies selling cheek rest pads for the 995 and might look at finding a cheap one. The rifle shot high right at 10 yards. I've heard it comes zero'd for 35 yards from the factory but I will adjust the windage the next time I go out. No complaints on the trigger.
Also shot my grandfather's (RIP) M1917. The pistol was very inaccurate with 4" groups at 10 yards. Will be casting (for the first time in my life) 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim this week when my father comes up to visit. I've got around 50 pounds of recovered range lead (not melted down yet - maybe 35-40 pounds of usable stuff) and 120 pounds of smelted wheel weights. I think Dad is bringing some powder coat with him so I don't know if we are going to use that or Alox. Bought a 200 grain SWC mold.
My last acquisition was 78.5# of COWW and 7# of SOWW for $3.05 (a dozen doughnuts). Spent 10 hours picking them up, sorting and melting them down.
In other news:
I took the new Ho-Point 9mm carbine to the range this morning. I shot 4 different rounds:
1) Store bought 115 grain Remington
2) 4.2 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
3) 4.6 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
4) 4.9 grain 1.125" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
This was my first time doing hand loads for the 9mm and the first time I had shot the rifle. I don't have my numbers in front of my but the Remington shot a 0.75" group at 10 yards. Each hand load shot around a 1.5" group. I'll start tuning off the 4.2 grain to save powder. The rifle had a rather irritating slap in the face each time you fired. I've seen companies selling cheek rest pads for the 995 and might look at finding a cheap one. The rifle shot high right at 10 yards. I've heard it comes zero'd for 35 yards from the factory but I will adjust the windage the next time I go out. No complaints on the trigger.
Also shot my grandfather's (RIP) M1917. The pistol was very inaccurate with 4" groups at 10 yards. Will be casting (for the first time in my life) 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim this week when my father comes up to visit. I've got around 50 pounds of recovered range lead (not melted down yet - maybe 35-40 pounds of usable stuff) and 120 pounds of smelted wheel weights. I think Dad is bringing some powder coat with him so I don't know if we are going to use that or Alox. Bought a 200 grain SWC mold.
My last acquisition was 78.5# of COWW and 7# of SOWW for $3.05 (a dozen doughnuts). Spent 10 hours picking them up, sorting and melting them down.
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03-10-2015, 09:33 AM
#4910
I think PSA has the 9mm Shield for $339 right now.
In other news:
I took the new Ho-Point 9mm carbine to the range this morning. I shot 4 different rounds:
1) Store bought 115 grain Remington
2) 4.2 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
3) 4.6 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
4) 4.9 grain 1.125" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
This was my first time doing hand loads for the 9mm and the first time I had shot the rifle. I don't have my numbers in front of my but the Remington shot a 0.75" group at 10 yards. Each hand load shot around a 1.5" group. I'll start tuning off the 4.2 grain to save powder. The rifle had a rather irritating slap in the face each time you fired. I've seen companies selling cheek rest pads for the 995 and might look at finding a cheap one. The rifle shot high right at 10 yards. I've heard it comes zero'd for 35 yards from the factory but I will adjust the windage the next time I go out. No complaints on the trigger.
In other news:
I took the new Ho-Point 9mm carbine to the range this morning. I shot 4 different rounds:
1) Store bought 115 grain Remington
2) 4.2 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
3) 4.6 grain 1.112" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
4) 4.9 grain 1.125" OAL 115 RMR thick plated handloads
This was my first time doing hand loads for the 9mm and the first time I had shot the rifle. I don't have my numbers in front of my but the Remington shot a 0.75" group at 10 yards. Each hand load shot around a 1.5" group. I'll start tuning off the 4.2 grain to save powder. The rifle had a rather irritating slap in the face each time you fired. I've seen companies selling cheek rest pads for the 995 and might look at finding a cheap one. The rifle shot high right at 10 yards. I've heard it comes zero'd for 35 yards from the factory but I will adjust the windage the next time I go out. No complaints on the trigger.
And yes... on to other news! IT'S FREAKING WARM OUT!!! That means time to reload. I'm gonna be a bit busy this week in the garage. Hopefully get out to the range this weekend, or maybe take off at noon on Friday and head out. I'm dying to see what the 6.8 will do and even more dying to know what those Copperheads will do.
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03-10-2015, 12:13 PM
#4911
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
Buds shows 9mm for $369 and .40 for $380. They have the Cali .40 in stock for $411. Those prices all include shipping to your FFL. No shortage of Shields here in VA, nor do I suspect anywhere outside CA.
I absolutely belive the guy at the store. You may never see one again. As more and more handguns fall off the roster monthly, demand will always be greater than supply. Now that Ruger(LC9) has pulled out and the G42 wont be certified, the Shield will be as scarce as unicorn poop.
I absolutely belive the guy at the store. You may never see one again. As more and more handguns fall off the roster monthly, demand will always be greater than supply. Now that Ruger(LC9) has pulled out and the G42 wont be certified, the Shield will be as scarce as unicorn poop.
The worst part is traveling to Arizona at least once a month for work and seeing what is for sale in a free state :(
In theory if someone brings one into the state from AZ/NV/OR/XX I can buy it via private party transfer, but legal stuff starts to get grey depending on how it goes down. I might spend some time poking around on CalGuns this afternoon.
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03-10-2015, 01:45 PM
#4913
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
I've got contact info for every FFL in the State of California as its all public record. I've been in touch with everyone in my area who has a storefront, but a lot of the guys are "good ole boys" types who don't advertize services, or aren't working with a random dude off the street.
There are a couple of FFLs in the area that do these types of "internet" transfers, including things like the CA "single shot exception" but its a minimum of 1hr one way to get to the closest one.
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03-10-2015, 01:46 PM
#4914
Unfortunately, every FFL out here is charging a fee that equals 20-25% of MSRP for current production guns to do transfers from places like Buds/AuctionArms/Gunlist/internet/etc to encourage people to buy from them even when they can't get stock. One of them decided to do this then they ALL decided it was a great way to gouge customers and make more money. So finding these things online looks pretty, but all my local FFLs are dickbags.
The worst part is traveling to Arizona at least once a month for work and seeing what is for sale in a free state :(
In theory if someone brings one into the state from AZ/NV/OR/XX I can buy it via private party transfer, but legal stuff starts to get grey depending on how it goes down. I might spend some time poking around on CalGuns this afternoon.
The worst part is traveling to Arizona at least once a month for work and seeing what is for sale in a free state :(
In theory if someone brings one into the state from AZ/NV/OR/XX I can buy it via private party transfer, but legal stuff starts to get grey depending on how it goes down. I might spend some time poking around on CalGuns this afternoon.
I'm a member and send a tithe to Calguns every year. My parents live in San Diego. California gun owners are their own worst enemy. Not enough pro-gun Cali gun owners actually vote, especially right-wing types. And the left-wing gun owners (of which there are more than enough to cause change) insist that the best way to cause change is to do anything other than pressure their left-wing politicians to knock it off. I love the State, but I'll never move back there.
A bright spot on the horizon is Feinstein and Boxer stepping down, and Harris announcing she's running for Boxers spot (gets Harris out of state politics). Of course everybody who has announced they want the empty seats is an anti-gun socialist too, but the decision will be put in the voters hands and typical Feinstein/Boxer auto-votes will actually have to think about the next candidate they support.
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03-11-2015, 10:02 AM
#4915
AWESOME! This caliber is so sexy... perfect midpoint between .223 and .308. Here are my first 25 ladder rounds for 6.8. 5rds each of 90grain GoldDots with 1200R... 30-32grain loads at .5gr increments.
Tonight Im going to do the same thing with RL10 and get started on the 110gr ProHunters and Barnes TSX.
Now just gotta find a morning to shoot.
ADDED PICS!
Tonight Im going to do the same thing with RL10 and get started on the 110gr ProHunters and Barnes TSX.
Now just gotta find a morning to shoot.
ADDED PICS!
Last edited by samnavy; 03-11-2015 at 06:57 PM.
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03-11-2015, 02:30 PM
#4916
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
Bloody local FFLs. They know they have the market cornered and they just continue to grin and collect money from people who don't want to spend 4 hours on driving out to and back from the central valley. For a decade is was $20 + State fees to do a private party transfer on anything from any of the 4 local guys. Now its State fees + $65~$85 or 20~25% of retail if current production + sales tax on the purchase price (I'm not sure how that is legal, but they all do it.)
Example 1: I've tried to buy both a Mosin and a Polish Radom P-64 (9x18 Mak) from AIM but none of my local FFLs were willing to work with me. The one guy in my area on AIMs "we work with these FFLs" list wants an astonishing $100 PER FIREARM to do transfers from AIM. That $260 Radom suddenly becomes a $360 Radom + $25 DROS and that puts me back in S&W Shield MSRP territory, except for the fact that I can't touch one for under $500 aparently. (At this point the Radom isn't as good a deal as it was a few years ago when you could get supermassive lots of 9x18 Makarov on the cheap, but you get the idea.)
Example 2: I believe it was PSA had a 4 pack of blem AR lowers a while back so I contacted my local AR friendly FFL. This was perfect because the state DROS form has 4 lines on it for long guns so you can do 4 in one shot. Easy peasy, right? They refused to this but instead insisted that they had to paper each individually and then charge me the $25 DROS + $65 "transfer fee" PER LOWER. I mean, seriously guys? WTF? I think that more than doubled the price of the lowers so I said fuckit and walked away. The thing that REALLY cheezed me off what that they turned around and bought the PSA blem 4 pack anyway, then sold them for $150/ea as stripped lowers. Needless to say, we don't do business anymore.
The "loss" of Feinstein and Boxer will create a vacuum and I agree, it'll be interesting to see who ends up stepping into those spaces. One thing I do know is that whomever does get in will not have the seniority or the clout that the F/B duo had, so that may dull the teeth a bit. I can dream anyway. I've been a member of CalGuns for years, and as I've said before CGF is one of the few non profits that actually gets my money. MT finally sent me stickers so I'll probably keep supporting it as well
Example 1: I've tried to buy both a Mosin and a Polish Radom P-64 (9x18 Mak) from AIM but none of my local FFLs were willing to work with me. The one guy in my area on AIMs "we work with these FFLs" list wants an astonishing $100 PER FIREARM to do transfers from AIM. That $260 Radom suddenly becomes a $360 Radom + $25 DROS and that puts me back in S&W Shield MSRP territory, except for the fact that I can't touch one for under $500 aparently. (At this point the Radom isn't as good a deal as it was a few years ago when you could get supermassive lots of 9x18 Makarov on the cheap, but you get the idea.)
Example 2: I believe it was PSA had a 4 pack of blem AR lowers a while back so I contacted my local AR friendly FFL. This was perfect because the state DROS form has 4 lines on it for long guns so you can do 4 in one shot. Easy peasy, right? They refused to this but instead insisted that they had to paper each individually and then charge me the $25 DROS + $65 "transfer fee" PER LOWER. I mean, seriously guys? WTF? I think that more than doubled the price of the lowers so I said fuckit and walked away. The thing that REALLY cheezed me off what that they turned around and bought the PSA blem 4 pack anyway, then sold them for $150/ea as stripped lowers. Needless to say, we don't do business anymore.
The "loss" of Feinstein and Boxer will create a vacuum and I agree, it'll be interesting to see who ends up stepping into those spaces. One thing I do know is that whomever does get in will not have the seniority or the clout that the F/B duo had, so that may dull the teeth a bit. I can dream anyway. I've been a member of CalGuns for years, and as I've said before CGF is one of the few non profits that actually gets my money. MT finally sent me stickers so I'll probably keep supporting it as well
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03-11-2015, 02:48 PM
#4918
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
I keep seeing that FFL03 (C&R) isn't a legitimate avenue for purchasing C&R handguns in CA. It should be fine for long guns, but I keep seeing "C&R Eligible! (Except in CA)" on handgun listings. I will admit I've not fully explored that particular oddity, its just something I keep seeing.
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03-11-2015, 07:05 PM
#4919
Yup, it sucks in Cali and the fight will get no easier. The inevitable Democrat supermajority will ensure any legal win in the courts will simply be countered with another round of laws. Sooner or later, they'll get all the bans they've been trying for years to get. The only solution lies with the voters. Unfortunately, with 42% voter turnout, CA gun owners (the many many many tens or hundreds of thousands who don't vote) have nobody to blame but themselves.
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03-14-2015, 07:56 PM
#4920
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 1,204
Total Cats: 296
So, I installed the scout mount and got the optics mounted on my CZ...
Ready to make a mess with Acraglas...
Modeling clay forms a seal to keep the epoxy from leaking out onto the action...
... 'cause the stuff is runny and messy. But it does fill all the nooks and crannies to permanently fix the mount to the barreled action.
Once the epoxy was cured, I opened up the stock to accept the action with the mount added. Conveniently, the scope and rings showed up today, just in time! Scope is a Hi-Lux 2-7x32 long eye relief, and rings are Leupold QR low. Scope is a cheapy, but I had one on a previous rifle, and it's surprisingly good glass for the price.
I think it's ready to go, hope to get it zeroed this week if I can get out and shoot it... Eventually, I'll add a backup peep sight that mounts to the rear dovetail on the receiver, but that's not critical right now.
Ready to make a mess with Acraglas...
Modeling clay forms a seal to keep the epoxy from leaking out onto the action...
... 'cause the stuff is runny and messy. But it does fill all the nooks and crannies to permanently fix the mount to the barreled action.
Once the epoxy was cured, I opened up the stock to accept the action with the mount added. Conveniently, the scope and rings showed up today, just in time! Scope is a Hi-Lux 2-7x32 long eye relief, and rings are Leupold QR low. Scope is a cheapy, but I had one on a previous rifle, and it's surprisingly good glass for the price.
I think it's ready to go, hope to get it zeroed this week if I can get out and shoot it... Eventually, I'll add a backup peep sight that mounts to the rear dovetail on the receiver, but that's not critical right now.
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