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Old 10-07-2011, 02:58 PM   #761
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Again, not an expert... and I'm sure Pushy will **** on me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read its the length of the barrel AFTER the gas port that effects how it cycles. There is more to it than that of course, gas port size, buffer spring and buffer weight, etc, but you get the idea. I figured I would find something that worked perfectly as a 16" midlength and then go from there. I'd post pics but I don't want to be abused for my magpul moe hand guard. It was free, light weight and my rifle is not covered with gay-*** rails, so it accomplished my task.

I've read Spikes makes pretty decent stuff. I tend to read... a lot... about this kind of stuff. I'm in CA and sadly, there is very little AR love out here so very few people to talk to about this stuff. I figure if the internet rednecks and dbags can make these things work and don't complain about it, its probably pretty decent quality idiot proof gear. I love reading threads on CalGuns about these guys doing piecemeal builds with $250 flavor of the week uppers, only to have cycling and accuracy issues. Don't be afraid to read, but evaluate your sources.

Didn't want to read back that far in this thread, but were you looking at building from a stripped lower?

Last edited by EO2K; 10-07-2011 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:07 AM   #762
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How do you poor bastards in CA get away with AR and AK platform rifles? Doesn't the mere ABILITY to attach a *GASP!* "High capacity" magazine (or any magazine for that matter) make it outright banned?
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:40 AM   #763
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Bought a cheap Lee progressive reloading press the other week so I can reload at home instead of driving all the way to my buddies shop. Finally set it up and started to get it tweaked to an operating condition and encountered a few speed bumps.

Managed to completely crush a brand new primer without it going off. Fell out between the frame and the ram, on a down stroke it turned the insides to powder and flattened the casing. Learned this specific press doesn't like to properly feed primers when the primer tray is empty because they don't have any weight to them. Still had ten or so in the chute but didn't matter. One turned itself upside down and allowed me to install it in a case, charge and press a bullet. Didn't notice until after I was done and inspected them.

Neat trick.. Don't think I want to try that again. Anyone ever had a tray of 100 primers go off at once? It ******* SUCKS..



Owned.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:08 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
How do you poor bastards in CA get away with AR and AK platform rifles? Doesn't the mere ABILITY to attach a *GASP!* "High capacity" magazine (or any magazine for that matter) make it outright banned?
* The following is offered as my interpretation. I'm no lawyer, just an internet jackass. Do not conciser this legal advice *

It depends, and it gets REALLY complicated. AR pattern rifles are banned by 1. Named (listed) 2. Feature. Don't ask me about AK's as I've not done the research.

You start with an OLL (Off List Lower) so that's anything that is not on the Kasler v. Lockyer Assault Weapon List or the 2008 Dangerous Weapon Control Law. Basically, if its a specific named model, or built by a specific manufacturer, you are fucked. Some of them are very broad like "COLT, AR15 series (all)" so no prancing pony guns for me. My stripped lower is a "Franklin Armory HSC-15" according to The Man, and was purchased with no "evil features" thus it is not listed and not banned. (The Colt AR15 may be a bad example as it goes back to the Robert-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989, but you get the idea) It's great that you almost have to be a ******* lawyer over here to get into this ****, but thats the way it goes. (How is the general public NOT going to vote for something called a "Dangerous Weapon Control Law"... but that is another rant for another time)

Next, we look at the CA SB23 feature list.
Quote:
12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
B. A thumbhole stock.
C. A folding or telescoping stock.
D. A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
E. A flash suppressor.
F. A forward pistol grip.
2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Well, my AR pattern rifle is definitely a "centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" so, we convert it to a fixed magazine. "WTF? AR with a fixed mag?" you say? Yes, a "fixed magazine" is defined as "any magazine that requires a tool for removal" thus we install what is known in California as a "Bullet Button" The tool in this case is the tip of a loose round. Thus the rifle is no longer "has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" and is no longer limited by any of the other restrictions and I get my pistol grip and flash suppressor. If I stick a 20 round mag in my HSC-15, even with the "Bullet Button" it instantly becomes an "Assault Weapon." You also can't use a BB to magically make your Listed Colt HBAR CA compliant.

This is all based on the PUBLIC interpretation of the law. To my knowledge, no one has been busted using a "Bullet Button" with an OLL for an "Assault Weapon" charge, unless they do something seriously stupid in addition to the BB (30rnd mag, Listed lower, etc.) Thus far, there isn't a District Attorney in the state willing to prosecute for an OLL and a BB, so there is nothing on the books... yet. Most enthusiasts know more about this than the cops do, so you really need to watch your *** out here. The local PD's love to get there SWAT teams pulses up when they make a traffic stop and get a whiff of "evil black rifle."

"Why the hell would I want an AR in such a configuration?" Here in California, that's all we get and that's what we will take. The legislators need to know that these things are not going away. The more AR pattern rifles that are out there, the better this will be in the state, and the less likely there will be more stupid laws passed. The interpretation that most subscribe to is this: IF the state decides to get crazy and expand the ban list and declare all our OLL AR pattern rifles "Assault Weapons," we will register them as such (as was done in 2000 when the first AW law was first passed) and we will remove our Bullet Buttons and other CA compliance parts and install factory mag releases. No reason to deal with a BB anymore now that its an AW! This will create tens of thousands of completely legal detachable magazine AR pattern rifles, exactly what the state does NOT want. The trick is the **** them with their own system. You can't fight people who purchase regulatory ink by the gallon, but you can poke holes in their system.

Besides, owning a factory mag release is not a crime, and it takes about 2 minutes to install. Something tells me the wave of insurrection is not going to move THAT fast... The BB does significantly reduce the capacity of the AR as a self-defense platform, so you might as well keep 2-3 of them around

Its a crazy game we play over here on the Left Coast, but IMO its a fight worth fighting.

** Edit: Can't believe I just typed all that out, must be early...

Last edited by EO2K; 10-08-2011 at 12:54 PM. Reason: because fuck you, that's why!
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:50 AM   #765
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Jesus Christ man.. Props to you! Don't think I could put up with that bullshit. Makes me wish someone would show those idiots the definition of a 'weapon' by stabbing them in the ******* throat with the god damn ink pen they write these stupid fagggot *** laws with.


So you can own an "assault weapon" in CA if you register it? Like NFA tax type of thing? So if I have a non-detachable magazine on my AR but it holds 200 rounds... is that okay?? Replace your rear takedown pin with a finger pull and tons of stripper clips to reload the magazine..
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:30 PM   #766
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I wonder when CA will get so wacked out that people just start leaving and their population actually drops. I dont see that on any charts thus far though, so maybe I am off.

I know I would'nt move there unless it was for a job that paid a LOT more money than any other option. As in much, much more than what is needed to cover any increases in cost of living.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:38 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Jesus Christ man.. Props to you! Don't think I could put up with that bullshit. Makes me wish someone would show those idiots the definition of a 'weapon' by stabbing them in the ******* throat with the god damn ink pen they write these stupid fagggot *** laws with.
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
So you can own an "assault weapon" in CA if you register it? Like NFA tax type of thing? So if I have a non-detachable magazine on my AR but it holds 200 rounds... is that okay??
You can possess an "assault weapon" IF you legally purchased it AND you registered it before the 2000 ban. I have a friend who is now a lawyer who owns a genuine Colt HBAR and all the high-cap mags he can handle. I believe the law offers provision to bring things into the state that are "Named Assault Weapons" but the state has approved exactly 0 of these in the last 11 years. No NFA, no SBR, no Class 3, no silencers... you get the idea. Once registered, you cannot transfer, sell, will, loan, etc a registered AW inside the state. Between 99-01 there was a MASSIVE overstock of beautiful used AR15s and AK/SKS rifles being sold in Arizona, Nevada and Oregon as Californian wusses decided to sell rather than register.

SB23 12276.1-2 states:
Quote:
2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
So your 200rnd fixed mag gun is automatically an "assault weapon" by definition.

The 10+ high cap mag thing is a whole another clusterfuck. You can't bring them into the state, buy, sell, trade, loan etc unless you are law enforcement, gov't, etc. You can have them if you possessed them pre-2000, (there was no 'magazine registration' so the state has no idea how many are out there) but plugging them into any firearm turns that firearm into an assault weapon. There are a lot of guys playing it fast and loose with this law just so they can have possession. They like to point out that it is not illegal to own components of "high capacity magazines" and "magazine rebuild kits." Much like a OLL, its not an "assault weapon" until it is assembled as such. I'll let you chew on that one for a while. I can understand where they are coming from, but its a little too outside the rules for me at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Replace your rear takedown pin with a finger pull and tons of stripper clips to reload the magazine..
Actually, this is exactly how the first AR's made it back onto the market around 2003 or so. the mag wells were extended and had a closed bottom as part of the casting, and a 10 round mag was 'permanently' fixed inside it. It looked goofy, but they sold like gangbusters.

I'm going to date myself here, but in early '98 when I was just out of highschool, a friend of mine and I got throw away summer jobs specifically so we could go buy Colt AR-15's. We saved our pennies and ordered up a pair of Colt H-BAR rifles from the local FFL, but only one ever came in. I let my buddy have it and I waited, but mine never showed up. I could have gotten whatever the period Colt M4 style sporter was available, but I wanted a mag fed 18-20" heavy barreled highly accurate .223/5.56 for killing varmints, so I passed. I let the ******* FFL talk me into a Mini 14 with a ******* scope. What a waste.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:02 PM   #768
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I wonder when CA will get so wacked out that people just start leaving and their population actually drops. I dont see that on any charts thus far though, so maybe I am off.

I know I would'nt move there unless it was for a job that paid a LOT more money than any other option. As in much, much more than what is needed to cover any increases in cost of living.
As people get older, they get more conservative. Its no wonder that more older and retired people are moving north or out of state. If you split the state in half right above Bakersfield, even with San Francisco and San Jose, you would have a pretty good chance of "Northern California" being a Red State. Oregon is the same way... Portland has 75% of the states population and its the destination for young liberals, and they control the vote. That's why Oregon is a Blue State. Step out of Portland and the mantra is "**** the unions and handouts, get me a job and put people to work!"

California has been squeezing my ***** for years over both my hobbies: Shooting and Cars. The only reason I bought a Rotrex instead of a Turbo is the promise of a CARB certification for it, and I got fucked out of that by KraftWerks' pissing match with the Jacksons. The only CARB legal boost for a 2000+ Miata is a ForFucksSake or Moss MP62, and I can't stand the blower whine on the '62. Had I known I'd be straight up illegal, I'd have bought a FMII or gone DIY. The only saving grace at this point is the ease of R&R with the Rotrex. I'm waiting to install my injectors/intercooler and MS2 until after my smog check this year.




Anyway... back to guns.

CMP just sold the **** out of their M1903/M1903A3's in the last 2 weeks. I was really hoping to finally get my hands on a decent '03 Springfield :( I picked up a Garand and a Carbine from them years ago for significantly less than they list for now, and 10x better condition than what I've seen for private party sales.

Every year I use my tax return to buy a gun, been doing this since I was 20. This year I'd like to pick up a Springfield M1A but getting one over here is quite a trick. What's the REAL skinny on the M1A? Assuming factory ammo, what kind of practical accuracy difference would you see between a Standard, Loaded, National Match and Super Match? Where is the features vs cost price break? What features are must-have and what can I do without? This will be my first and probably only M1A, so I'd prefer not to get a bottom of the barrel Standard/Basic model, but to the other extreme, I don't want mall ninja railz all over the place, so no SOCOMII for me. I want reliability, accuracy and longevity. I'd prefer a wood stock purely for aesthetics. Optics is not out of the question as a future upgrade, just for fun. I see no reason to own a .308 and not at least try to have fun out to 500yds, but most shooting will be 200-300 on paper. Scout Squad is also an option, but I'm not sure about the SOCOM 16. A 16" barrel .308 sounds like ballistics failboat.

What say you?

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Old 10-08-2011, 02:59 PM   #769
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Scout model is a nice compromise. I had a SOCOM 16, and while it's a cool rifle, ultimately it's just a poor compromise. Too heavy and unwieldy to be a handy short carbine, and the barrel is too short to take advantage of the round. And, muzzle blast is a bitch.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:49 PM   #770
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I've got it!!!!!!

**** fixed or deatch box magazines!!! They never mentioned anything about BELT FEED!! By my English that isn't fixed OR detachable!

**** California. I've yet to see a single reason to EVER live there.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:50 PM   #771
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Scout model is a nice compromise. I had a SOCOM 16, and while it's a cool rifle, ultimately it's just a poor compromise. Too heavy and unwieldy to be a handy short carbine, and the barrel is too short to take advantage of the round. And, muzzle blast is a bitch.
I appreciate the insight about the SOCOM. I have a friend who keeps trying to get me to buy one, probably because he can't afford it lolol. The Scout is pretty attractive @ 18" length. It would be nice to actually get my paws on one to shoot it before I commit. I understand the muzzle blast issue... going from my 24" barrel standard issue M1 Garand to another friends 18" barreled T26-clone "Tanker Garand" has the same issue. The .30-06 is an absolute monster in a barrel that short.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:06 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
I've got it!!!!!!

**** fixed or deatch box magazines!!! They never mentioned anything about BELT FEED!! By my English that isn't fixed OR detachable!

**** California. I've yet to see a single reason to EVER live there.
I hear the weather is nice, and ironically, theres a huge car culture there.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:20 PM   #773
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So amongst people who know their **** with carbines, are AKs/Saigas basicaly obsolete due to ergonomic reasons?
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:51 PM   #774
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I hear the weather is nice, and ironically, theres a huge market for car theft there.
FTFY.

Quote:
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So amongst people who know their **** with carbines, are AKs/Saigas basicaly obsolete due to ergonomic reasons?
I'm going to say no. Does the ZR1 vette completely blow because of a bad interior?

What ergonomic drawbacks does the AK have?

Problem: Safety on the right side, bad for right handed shooter.
Solution: There are thumb levers available to manipulate safety with your right thumb on the pistol grip.

Problem: No drop and direct replacement magazine.
Solution: Training. Higher capacity magazine.

Problem: Charging handle on the right hand side, difficult to manipulate for right handed shooter.
Solution: Up angled charging handle or modify your top cover to add charging handle to left.

Problem: No last round bolt lock or bolt catch
Solution: Don't know what to tell you about this one. They also make bolt catches, bud don't believe they'll lock on last round.


I'm not an expert on carbines or weapons firearms, but if you want a rock solid 100% reliable military type semi-automatic centerfire rifle with large capacity magazines and fires an inexpensive round the AK's where its at. Experts label an AK the simplest rifle in the world, I mean they're stamped out of sheet metal for ***** sake!
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:04 AM   #775
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No kidding, the AK is simple as hell. It was designed so that 'peasants' and untrained conscripts could fire it with acceptable accuracy and epic reliability with little to no maintenance. Its overall build makes it stupid easy to manufacture in massive quantities on the stupid cheap. Any of its perceived design faults are easily made up for with its overall simplicity.

Somali Pirate AK's:





Yeah, and that rusty **** still fired. Take it for what it is and don't expect MOA accuracy out of an AK and you should be fine.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:19 AM   #776
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how i spent my weekend:



i'll come drop some **** in this thread makin fun of yall for being wrong when i sober up
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:00 PM   #777
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He can hardly wait..
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:41 PM   #778
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He probably hasn't waited. Wonder how many kills he has?
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:22 PM   #779
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:44 PM   #780
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Same people, really cool video:

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