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Old 02-27-2012, 12:39 AM   #1661
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4473 woes
That's what I'm saying. Are you required to fill one out for private sales? I don't.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:43 AM   #1662
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Why? No paperwork when you buy it, no paperwork when you sell it. Done and done.
I gave this cokehead I knew like $50 for a Remington 870 11 years ago. I ran into him 2 years ago and he asked if I'd sell him the stock from it cause it had sentimental value. I'm like, "what? I converted that into a tactical like 11 years ago!" He was all bumbed out...guess he shoulda kept his nose clean.
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:44 AM   #1663
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I am very ---- when it comes to guns and most of my guns are quality. I am just looking for something cheap to dick around with. It almost reminded me of a cheap gun I remember from like 15 years ago...a high point 9mm carbine. I remember seeing them for like $200.
If your wanting something to have fun with then why not go with something like a Ruger 10/22?
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Old 02-27-2012, 12:54 AM   #1664
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If your wanting something to have fun with then why not go with something like a Ruger 10/22?
I had a Ruger 10/22...then I traded it for a 10/22T with a laminated stock and a hammer forged barrel.
I used to have an SKS...traded it for a Mini-14...traded that for a DPMS M4 with a flattop receiver.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:21 AM   #1665
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That's what I'm saying. Are you required to fill one out for private sales? I don't.
nope, but I'm paranoid about catching a charge
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:21 PM   #1666
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I've been thinking about getting an AR. This will strictly be a toy, plinkin' and what not.
I've done the homework on lowers and tried to price things out. I don't have a fear of a composite lower for how I intend to use this thing... so whaddya think about this guy:
http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog...ducts_id=34089
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:26 PM   #1667
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nope, but I'm paranoid about catching a charge
Give me a possible scenario. I really don't understand your fear.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #1668
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Why? No paperwork when you buy it, no paperwork when you sell it. Done and done.
Lawyer: "So, Mr. M, please tell the jury where you bought this gun."

You: "I got it from this dude at Autozone."
You: "I bought it from this guy in the gunshow parking lot."
You: "My buddy knows this kid who..."

It really doesn't matter what you say or how legit the situation was and has no bearing on what the LAW is... during your civil trial, unless you have the documentation that it was 100% legit, with a receipt from an actual "someplace" that performed a background check, the prosecution will make you look like a scumbag. Your lawyer will not be able to make it look any prettier either. Sometimes this is all it takes for a jury to get the impression that you're a guy who has been waiting his whole life to kill a dude under the guise of "defending myself" and now you're out $3 million to the family.

Just my advice... for personal defense weapons, buy from a retailer so you have all the documentation and the retailer of FFL can show proof that a NICS check was performed.

I know Pusha isnt' going to CCW a Sub2k, but if you shoot a guy with a gun you have no paperwork on, even if it's 100% justifiable and you are not charged with a crime, you will get anally raped in the civil trial because you're a lowlife redneck who buys guns on the black market in parking lots out of windowless vans. Just sayin.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:24 PM   #1669
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Silliness. That's like not carrying HP's because a prosecutor might describe them as "torture bullets" and "cop killers".

And it still doesn't answer why he wouldn't snag that Sub2K to make a quick and easy $150 on it.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:26 PM   #1670
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Silliness. That's like not carrying HP's because a prosecutor might describe them as "torture bullets" and "cop killers".

And it still doesn't answer why he wouldn't snag that Sub2K to make a quick and easy $150 on it.
B/c it was probably bullspit.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:28 PM   #1671
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B/c it was probably bullspit.
Yeah, because I'm in the business of lying about firearms. It's not my fault your parents won't let you be a man.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #1672
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Silliness. That's like not carrying HP's because a prosecutor might describe them as "torture bullets" and "cop killers".
I carry original, old stock Black Talons in my .357 mag revolver. I might as well handcuff myself, right?

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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
And it still doesn't answer why he wouldn't snag that Sub2K to make a quick and easy $150 on it.
bro, hindsight is always 20/20 and, looking back, I probably should have bought it. I'm not going to kick myself over the decision and I needed the cash for something else I had in the works at the time.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:36 PM   #1673
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I carry original, old stock Black Talons in my .357 mag revolver. I might as well handcuff myself, right?
THIS MAN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WAS SO INTENT ON INFLICTING PAIN AND TORTURE ON HIS FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS THAT HE PROCURED BULLETS THAT WERE BANNED BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO CRUEL.

I rest my case.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #1674
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THIS MAN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WAS SO INTENT ON INFLICTING PAIN AND TORTURE ON HIS FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS THAT HE PROCURED BULLETS THAT WERE BANNED BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO CRUEL.

I rest my case.
I'd carry 10mm BTs in my Glock 20 but long-term carrying of cartridges in magazines is not a good idea.*

*Not because they hurt the magazine spring or anything like that, but because they will spin and turn in there and form grooves on the casing that may hinder reliability.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:21 PM   #1675
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Silliness. That's like not carrying HP's because a prosecutor might describe them as "torture bullets" and "cop killers".
You'll have to convince a "jury of your peers". This jury by-the-way was hand selected by the lawyer for the family to consist of people who hate guns already, and any little thing you give them to use against you will be that much harder for your lawyer to argue against. I'm sure shooting a guy with BT's, no matter how justified, would pretty much ensure you will work the rest of your life paying off the settlement.

Again, you don't have to convince me, just saying if you haven't considered all the angles, then good luck in court.

For example, it is a certainty that if you involved in a shooting where you use a DAO pistol or any revolver, the prosecution will attempt to paint you as a thug because you chose a gun without a safety. It's been argued in civil cases that a Glock is an "unsafe" gun because of it's lack of a traditional "safety", and a prosecution will try to use this fact to give the jury the idea that you may have been so excited during the moment that you actually accidentally fired the gun, and you need to pay the family for accidentally killing some guy.

Prosecutors will do the same thing if they learn your gun has had any custom work done to it. A trigger job for example makes it very easy for any good lawyer to convice a jury that you intentionally modified your gun to make it "easier to kill people with".

Again, you don't have to convince me, but if you haven't thought about this ---- and made a conscious decision about how/what you carry, then good luck.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #1676
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Prosecution and defense both get a certain number of strikes during jury selection.

And yes, I've heard all the horror stories. But things are different now than they were 20 years ago, and Mississippi is different than Massachusetts.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:51 PM   #1677
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^It sounds like you're trying to tell me that I'm out to lunch or that what I'm saying is bad advice. As for things being different, you're right, but being right doesn't mean it's not going to cost you a lot of money.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:00 PM   #1678
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No, not really. I'm just saying that worrying about a hypothetical prosecutor in a hypothetical civil trial after a hypothetical shooting involving a gun purchased in a manner that's common and legal in most states seems a bit...well, as pusha put it, paranoid.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:07 PM   #1679
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I guess I'm doing too much reading, but I think I am a bit paranoid. In any case it's almost a certainty that even if there are no charges pressed from a criminal standpoint, you're going to need a lawyer, and there will be plenty of lawyers looking at you with the intent of contacting the family to represent them in court. Any little thing they find will be fuel to the fire for the lawyers to convince the family to file.

I don't want them to get that far. Weapon choice, purchasing method, ammo used, training, everything you've ever said on the internet, etc... will all be just as critical as the actual facts of the event. Everything about your life and weapons will be scrutinized and it will all be used against you to prove to the jury that you were a madman lying in wait for years for the opportunity to kill. If you haven't thought about this stuff at least once, and decided for yourself that you're good with your choices, then you're behind the curve no matter what the hypothetical future has in store.

And I'm not against the general purchasing of weapons dude-to-dude in parking lots, but in keeping with my general "give nothing to the lawyers" motto, I wouldn't use one for SD. Range toy yes, but I think it's the same thing as when your mom told you "You can't choose who you fall in love with", and your dad said "Your mom is right, but you know that **** come in different sizes, right?"
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:15 PM   #1680
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Mississippi's Castle Doctrine stipulates that you cannot be held liable in a civil trial if you are cleared of criminal charges in matters of self defense. I know not all states have Castle Doctrines, not all Castle Doctrines include this stipulation, and not all righteous shootings will immediately be cleared as self-defense.

Believe me, I watch the local news and follow the results of trials here. I'm not being cavalier about this.
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