miatauser884

iTrader: (11)

It works great for me until I turn on the lights or ac. How do you deal with this using "warmup only"?

poobs

iTrader: (1)

I also went back to the stock DIY settings and idle seems to be better... I may have tweaked too many things at one time and they actually worked against me.
Mostly, I don't understand what ALL the settings do or how they interrelate.

My best results seem to be with warm idle raised slightly and idle DC raised a couple of points.

This is without venturing into the aspect of AC

Sorry but I don't know the answer to your question: How do you deal with this using "warmup only"? A setting under Idle control comes to mind tho...

Jeff_Ciesielski

iTrader: (10)

I don't think I understand your question. Do you mean you use mechanical idle and are having droop issues, or your idle is buttery using PWM idle control untill you introduce an electrical load?

inferno94

iTrader: (2)

I tried this today and my setup won't do it, switching between closed loop and warm up only made no difference in what the car did. It idled at 2600rpm either way. I set the warm up mode to stop at 50C clt temp but it wouldn't shut off and once up to temp (~85C) just kept doing it's high 2600-2800rpm idle.I also tried changing the idle settings back to diy defaults with no change.

The car works with it's lack of warm up idle, and will probably be better when it's not -15C out, but I'm wondering if there is something out of place somewhere causing this (or is idle control really just impossible on MSI?).

Jeff_Ciesielski

iTrader: (10)

Hmmmmmmm. That is strange. Try this map. Its exactly what you gave me with 100% diyautotune settings for idle. Let the car get up to temp, then once its there, use the idle screw to bring idle down to 800-1000.

muythaibxr

This can be helped by using the idle advance feature. Set it so higher load gives you more timing.

This was the way the algorithm was designed (on purpose even). You can reduce that a bit by reducing the dashpot adder, then it won't go so high above your target. I did it this way to avoid stalling and to make it easier for the PID loop to smoothly ramp to the target.

You can reduce that by reducing the cranking duty.

Ken

muythaibxr

IF your P term is that high without oscillation, set the RPM with valve open a little lower (which will increase sensitivity).

Ken

muythaibxr

This is the MS1 closed-loop idle settings... I'm not sure about those since I didn't write that algorithm.

Ken

muythaibxr

But it's not PID though.

Ken

muythaibxr

When it gets stuck, that's because of the PID lockout settings. Either the RPMdot setting is too low, or the MAP setting is too high (probably RPMdot). Try setting it to something like 150-200 RPM/sec and see if that helps.

As far as getting it to go back to the target better with increased load, increasing the P term will make the initial response to increased load (and decreased RPM) faster and larger. Increasing I term will get it closer to the actual targeted RPM. I would increase both until you get oscillation then back off till it goes away.

Keep in mind that if you get oscillation, you might be able to help it by making sure AFR doesn't bounce up and down when it's oscillating (which will feed the oscillation and make it worse).

To help response to increased load, use the idle-advance feature to bump up timing when load increases.

Ken

poobs

iTrader: (1)

I'm an outcast

rweatherford

I didn't read every post on this but the idle control circuit is two parts. One is the mechanical amount of base air that is let by the throttle body and then the second is how much air is let through the IAC valve.

If the base air is not set properly then the IAC valve can't adjust properly no matter what your settings are. Try cleaning the IAC and TB area and see if that helps on the base settings. If that won't do it then you might want to adjust the base air setting, usually with a screw on the throttle plate stop. With the IAC fully closed and unplugged your car should idle slightly below the idle target with no load.

This is all IMHO and an expert can chime in and correct me.

muythaibxr

In my experience, the idle screw should be set so the IAC valve is near the middle of its travel most of the time.

Ken

Reverant

iTrader: (10)

I enabled it but it didn't make any difference on the A/C engaging, maybe only a small difference on lighter loads.

Even with dashpot adder set to 0, it still settles to 1400rpm, which is really high for my taste, I would prefer something like 1200rpm (so I can have the overrun fuel cut set to 1300-1350.

The same thing happens when I burn new settings. The idle goes to 1800, the overrun kicks in, RPMs drop, CL idle kicks in and raises the RPMs to 1800 again, etc.

Jim

poobs

iTrader: (1)

I agree.

Also unplugging the IAC valve and adjusting the idle speed via the screw and the idle A/F cells for the best idle before fudging with the settings.

rweatherford

I don't know how the Miata (or ford) does the idle motor. On a GM LT1 they know in the computer how many steps from closed the current valve position is and there is a range they want it to be in at idle so the IAC will work correctly. Many people have issues after doing TB modifications and have to reset this minimum air flow adjustment so that the IAC will work correctly.

Sounds like we are all hinting at the same thing. Perhaps some of these cars just need a good cleaning. That usually solves idle problems IF there are no other mechanical issues.

muythaibxr

What does AFR do when you engage the heavier load?

What are your settings like? Is CL idle engaged when it settles there? (Check the CL idle indicator in the tuning software). IF dashpot adder is 0 and it still settles above your target then you're getting some air from someplace other than the idle valve assuming PID has not engaged.

If it's settling that high with PID engaged, then your I term is way too low, or your valve closed/open RPM settings are set too far apart causing the algorithm to be less sensitive than it should be. Can you post a log of the behavior you're talking about.


If overrun can kick in essentially when freerevving, then overrun needs to be adjusted. It should never kick in when freerevving.

Please post your most current msq, and a log of the bad behavior and I'll try to help correct your problem.

Ken

inferno94

iTrader: (2)

Finally got around to trying your settings, they really made no difference (sorry). The idle was sitting at 3000rpm (screw set to give ~900rpm idle with no iac) prior to turning the screw all the way in which brought the idle to 2100rpm. It still idles 1800-2100 during warm up, then goes up.

Is the iac controlled by output 2? My output 2 light flashes like a strobe with the engine on.

Jeff_Ciesielski

iTrader: (10)

In the .MSQ that I gave you, is it set for warmup only?

Edit: I just checked it, and it is. Not sure what to tell you, with the exception of the frequency and duty cycles, that is exactly how I have my '92 set up. I assumed it would be the same for a 1.8 IAC. Sorry :(

inferno94

iTrader: (2)

That's ok an attempt that didn't work is better than not trying at all.

Anyone have settings that work on their 1.8?