poormxdad

I've done a few hours of searching and reading. I'm going to go ahead and scrap the current tune (which I suppose I kinda have by changing all the stuff above) and start using Include AFR Target. My proposed AFR Table is attached. Believe it or not, it is a few tenths leaner almost everywhere than before. I want to balance running a little rich to be safe on track with not running too rich that she breaks down the oil or destroys my cat. I've always thought she was too rich on track.

What do I do to the current VE Table since I'm switching over to including the AFR Target? Are there Startup/Idle changes that need to be made?

My research indicates you all are comfortable autotuning fuel and taking the car to the track. Can I replace the 90mm pulley with an 85mm, and use that AFR table and the Ignition table included in the tune in Post #1? Are there advantages to autotuning the non-boost parts without the supercharger belt attached if I'm including the AFR Target?

Thanks,

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

Congrats on switching to include afr target. Smart move

You will need to retune VE everywhere, but it shouldn't take too much autotuning to get you close.

Equations for determining the injector flow rate with a pressure change are out on the internets. I think witchhunter might have one.

I would not tune with the belt off. I assume you are running speed density, so the fuel equation inputs don't care either way, but AIT frequently has error that is compensated for in the VE table.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Steps in the right direction. Tune with the belt on. Do not let VEAL tune idle or trailing throttle, and only fully warmed up. There are settings that will do this for you automatically. Highlight cells and block them and set a minimum CLT.

Including AFR will not affect start. It will affect afterstart and idle VERY LITTLE as you are nearly stoichiometric in those areas of your AFR table. See the picture? When desired AFR = stoichiometric AFR, there is no adjustment of fueling.

irodd

iTrader: (4)

Seems like you are going use 4bar.
Correct injectors deadtime is a corner stone of any tune.
You have to use differential pressure to find your injectors deadtime.
Differential pressure on non MAP referenced returnless fuel systems is difference between rail pressure and manifold pressure.
So it will be different on different manifold pressures.
It is 70psi@idle on on your car with 60psi and 53psi@full boost(I assume your compressor makes 7psi)
Best compromise is using 5 bar deadtime because correct deadtime is much more important on low pulse width.

I already mentioned my question to Injector Dynamics tech support and their answer. I believe ID is reputable and reliable source of knowledge.
Also you can search mt.net forum with "differential pressure" keywords.

P.S.: Another question: Is provided deadtimes correct?

poormxdad

No congrats necessary. I wanted fuel tuned on a dyno. Apparently, it's better/easier to do it without including the AFR Target. I ran that tune with only minor tweaks for two seasons, I blame myself for anything non-optimum.

Yes. Flow Force provided recommended settings. My research indicates dead time is not life or death. Mine was very wrong, and I drove it on track, and to and from events, for two years without issue. I admit, however, the new settings feel better, but I have a ways to go to get the new tune complete.

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

Not to cross hairs...

I have actually had great success using veal for idle tuning, and I have a full 16x16 table dedicated to idle. The trick is to idle while moving. Slowly let clutch out to get moving, shift into 2nd and 3rd, still at idle. Also useful to do it on a grade and adjust target rpm when you get the lower loads at the target idle rpm dialed in.

Determine the optimal idle AFR by adjusting AFR for lowest manifold pressure (load). This requires tuning idle control and VE first. You can also do it with adaptive idle advance, and tune to the lowest timing applied to maintain idle. My 1.6 for instance prefers an idle AFR of around 13.5 in the current configuration. At other times (different setups) it has been as low as 12.5 or as high as 14.3.

poormxdad

Alrighty then... I took her out for some autotuning. I had two small, but noticeable issues.

First, it seemed there were times when VEAL stopped making changes. I had Max Cell Value Change at 40, Max Cell Percentage Change at 40, and Very Easy selected. There were times when I was holding a throttle position on some very lean AFRs, but they weren't changing.

After I had her good and warm (so to speak), the idle behavior changed. When I pulled to a stop, the idle would be up around 1400 and would slowly ramp down. Before she was fully warmed up, the idle seemed more normal. I've obviously got work to do.

Here's a log. Thanks for taking a look.

poormxdad

My Friend,

I doubt I'm smart enough to accomplish what you suggest, but I do appreciate your input.

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

Static fuel pressure will wonk the fuel equation via breaking ReqFuel. This is somewhat counter productive in terms of the advantages offered by incorporating AFR target. That being said, the error in ReqFuel will be absorbed into VE directly due to the product nature of the equation...

except of course for changes in dead time due to dynamic differential pressure.

ID 850s for instance are way more sensitive to voltage than pressure. By the time you are in boost, the error in dead time will tepresent a much smaller percentage of the pulse width.

ID850 Injectors - Injector Dynamics

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

not as hard as it sounds. When you get there, you will be ready.

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

tune file might be more helpful

poormxdad

Yes. Attachificated.

poormxdad

BTW, I also replaced the crank position sensor. I had no trouble revving past 6000, but I admit I did not push her into WOT. Is there anything in the log or tune that could be causing a stumble at WOT? I hope to take her out again this afternoon.

Thanks,

poormxdad

It's supposed to be warm this afternoon, so I left work early to go autotune. She started and every few seconds would cut out momentarily. I have a log file. Also the check engine light gave one long blink, then eight short blinks.

The cut outs got spaced longer and longer apart, and stopped completely after she warmed up. She did not do this the last time I drove her around. I went for the last restore point, but TS said it was the same.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

poormxdad

I'm going to need some serious help. Maybe I just don't understand the theory.

I didn't have any problem with cut outs I mentioned in the previous post after she warmed up. She ran really well. No problems going into WOT. She's a beast, even untuned. So what was happening?

I enabled AE, Accel Pump-AE. Now, the low load AFRs are much higher than before. I'm not sure how to fix that and VEAL did not. High 16s-low 17s. I never saw numbers that high before.

When I first started her up, the idle AFRs were really rich. I pulled some fuel. That might have led to issues later.

The big issue came when I parked her and let her heat soak with the hood closed. When I started her back up, the AFRs were really high. IAT was over 100. With the old tune, it did not take long for the cool air from my actual cold air intake to bring the IAT down and everything would settle out. This time, the AFRs remained high, both driving and idling. I would have thought they would be really rich since I have MAT Correction pretty much flat with 70 degrees at 100%. The attached log is with the high AFRs after the heat soak.

One other weirdness. I have the rev limiter ON and set at 7200. It does not appear to be working. It used to.

I plead severe noobness.

Thanks,

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

you turned EAE on ... did you mean to do that?

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

it is also helpful to use project backups instead of msq. Not sure we can upload them here due to size, but you can cut down the size by not including datalogs and restore points.

poormxdad

Without trying to be flip, I basically turned everything on. That's the first thing I'll turn off.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Your definition of structured approach differs greatly from mine. If I were your engine, I'd be fearing for my life.

poormxdad

I decided I was making so many changes, I might as well start over.

What's really interesting is comparing my current tune to last year's tune under 1.2.0. Accepting changes to the AFR table (and Including the AFR Table in the VE table), the VE Table itself, injector size and dead time, it's mostly idle stuff. She only seems to have problems with the new idle parameters and temperature corrections. Highway driving and acceleration were fantastic.

I cannot get my brain around why she's really lean throughout the lower rpm range when she gets heat soaked if the MAT correction is flat.

I really need help to get the idle right, and I haven't been able to figure out the cut out problem at idle when she was warming up (Post #34).

Thanks,