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Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

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Old 09-28-2016, 03:03 PM   #921
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Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
Y'all wanna take bets on a change of PTE* @ 2430lbs for the NB1?!
Yep, we're screwed, especially if doward wins west coast nats with a bunch of 949 stickers on his car.
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:07 PM   #922
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Yep, we're screwed, especially if doward wins west coast nats with a bunch of 949 stickers on his car.
Let it be known from now going forward, that my CARB-legal, catalytic-converter-equipped, thrice-wrecked, never-seen-an-alignment-rack, junkyard-motor, used-parts-everywhere, rubber-bushed, ebay-clutched, rainbow-stickered NB1 is an overdog.

And so it shall be.

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Old 09-28-2016, 03:09 PM   #923
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Does anyone know why Steyn was DQ'd? Was his car an actual PTE car, or an SM on SM7s/R7s?
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:11 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Yep, we're screwed, especially if doward wins west coast nats with a bunch of 949 stickers on his car.
Let it be known from now going forward, that my CARB-legal, catalytic-converter-equipped, thrice-wrecked, never-seen-an-alignment-rack, junkyard-motor, used-parts-everywhere, rubber-bushed, ebay-clutched, rainbow-stickered NB1 is an overdog.

And so it shall be.
Yeah! Thanks *******! This is why we can't have nice things.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:20 PM   #925
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I am waiting for the day for miata's just be banned from NASA.

Is the real issue that no one else is really doing as much development on other makes and models as we have done for the miata?
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:22 PM   #926
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It's likely even parts top tier drivers and car development.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:33 PM   #927
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I am waiting for the day for miata's just be banned from NASA.

Is the real issue that no one else is really doing as much development on other makes and models as we have done for the miata?
Basically, yes. Also, people simply choose to NOT be on the edge of their P:W because they fear the dyno and they dont want to spend the time and money to prepare. People want to run whatever they have laying around in PT. There are probably only two other cars in my region within .5lb:hp of their cap, they're both points NB1s

I talk my car down a lot, but it is light years ahead of 90% of my regional fields in cumulative R&D, and nearly zero of it was done by me.
People like to blame spending too. I have spent "money"(more than $1000 per part) in only two places: shocks/coilovers(4 years old now, carried over from a previous chassis) and diff(bought used for 60% of retail). I have spent nearly zero monies anywhere else (other than safety gear). Yet, I've been lumped into the "high-dollar build" camp.

I'd wager a bet that there isn't a single non-miata fully optimized under the current PTE rules. Westcott's Sentra is close, maybe.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:35 PM   #928
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The RX7 Anderson drives? Don't know anything about the car other than it's crazy fast when it's at the right track.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:06 PM   #929
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There's a local Sentra that I chase down at Road Atlanta that's within 0.5ish of the cap. Something like 165whp @ 2800lbs with some FWD modifier too. My car is similar to Dan's..... but points build because I'm lazzzyy. Though, it's looking like I'll need to do a dyno reclass for next year.....sigh.

Oh, keep in mind I'm just a pleab TT'er, I don't see any PT action, **** my miata is currently my DD
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Old 09-29-2016, 09:04 AM   #930
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I'd wager a bet that there isn't a single non-miata fully optimized under the current PTE rules. Westcott's Sentra is close, maybe.
Neuman's BMW is pretty well setup for a budget PTE car. Unfortunately, he had diff problems at Watkins Glen.
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Old 09-29-2016, 01:25 PM   #931
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Steyn's car was DQ'd because it was in full SM trim, because the guys that prepped it didn't quite understand the BTM stuff in the PT rules, I heard them talking in tech, like this was a factory blah blah blah, not realizing they still had to take points for the diff and the lot... And as for Wescott's Sentra, it is about as fast as i think you can make that car, 2470 @158 or 160 hp (can't remember which) his car is dynamite on the straights, but i don't think he has the dampers (or the development) to really make the car handle like it needs to in order to beat a fully optimized PTE miata with a good driver behind the wheel... oh, and I was the guy running the orange #47 PTE miata at the east coast championships...
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Old 09-29-2016, 07:58 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
Basically, yes. Also, people simply choose to NOT be on the edge of their P:W because they fear the dyno and they dont want to spend the time and money to prepare. People want to run whatever they have laying around in PT. There are probably only two other cars in my region within .5lb:hp of their cap, they're both points NB1s

I talk my car down a lot, but it is light years ahead of 90% of my regional fields in cumulative R&D, and nearly zero of it was done by me.
People like to blame spending too. I have spent "money"(more than $1000 per part) in only two places: shocks/coilovers(4 years old now, carried over from a previous chassis) and diff(bought used for 60% of retail). I have spent nearly zero monies anywhere else (other than safety gear). Yet, I've been lumped into the "high-dollar build" camp.

I'd wager a bet that there isn't a single non-miata fully optimized under the current PTE rules. Westcott's Sentra is close, maybe.
If you're referring to Dad and I being the NB1 points cars within .5 hp of the cap, not quite. We're both at 2410@135, so 17.85 (16.5 cap). We'll try again in the offseason to get there. I would love another 10 hp.

I will agree 100% with the prep level of most regional cars that regularly run. Very few run any lexan, have poly bushings, or an upgraded diff or ratio change. Tons of cars are on Bilsteins and running old tires and don't do all of the free mods. Neuman is the only seam welded car I can think of. Right now I'm on a stock (non-reflashed) ECU, bolt-ons, original clutch, 4.3 Torsen, stock bushings, some lexan and usually on R7s and recently some ASTs and stock bars. This combo is enough to podium most of the time in the region. Running 8 weekends with my Dad was my goal this year and maybe I should race less and buy more parts, but I think I made the right decision.

It wasn't until I took a little time to prep with the lightweight hardtop, ASTs, and got some weight back out of the car to try and run close to my min weight, that I was happier with my results. Also, I need to buck up and drive. This is also the issue with many in the region; the driver.

Like Mike said, Neuman has done a nice job on that E36 and he slings that pig around. I am only able to keep up when I drive as hard.

Good news is that the Kentucky Krew is showing up at NCM next month and reality will set in that low prep won't win there.

Last edited by whoahstu; 09-29-2016 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:55 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by mweber View Post
Neuman's BMW is pretty well setup for a budget PTE car. Unfortunately, he had diff problems at Watkins Glen.
Yes, Nueman's car is a BMW version of my build.
E* reclass
fancy coilovers
stock bars
205 R7
Lsd
I think this formula can be applied to nearly anything and be strong regionally.


A strong regional car for sure.
But look at what Kopitski did to us in April with a strong national car.


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Old 10-03-2016, 02:00 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by doward View Post

Options for the last point are:
Front lower subframe brace
Invert the shocks
bumper cut
vortex generators
20lbs of weight reduction
intake manifold
1 point gives you 5lbs weight reduction. 2 pts for 20lbs.

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Old 10-03-2016, 02:18 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by jix87 View Post
1 point gives you 5lbs weight reduction. 2 pts for 20lbs.
No.
2 points for "greater than 20lbs."

"If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 5.2.2) minus minimum competition weight (with driver*) is greater than:"
https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...cial_Rules.pdf

21-35lbs is 2pts.
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:40 PM   #936
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No.
2 points for "greater than 20lbs."

"If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 5.2.2) minus minimum competition weight (with driver*) is greater than:"
https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...cial_Rules.pdf

21-35lbs is 2pts.
Ah, I misread it. It threw me off because they're basically allowing you to be 1-5lbs underweight without penalty, right?

I'm a lowly HPDE'r hoping to move to TT next year, so I'm still ironing out all the details of the rules.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:54 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by whoahstu View Post
If you're referring to Dad and I being the NB1 points cars within .5 hp of the cap, not quite. We're both at 2410@135, so 17.85 (16.5 cap). We'll try again in the offseason to get there. I would love another 10 hp.
That "probably" saved my *** I thought you were making more than that and running at 2390.



Quote:
Originally Posted by whoahstu View Post
Good news is that the Kentucky Krew is showing up at NCM next month and reality will set in that low prep won't win there.
Prepare for maximum flatout. You taking stickers? There is some talk of that track REALLY liking stickers more-so than other tracks.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:12 PM   #938
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TLDR of current PTE Meta:

At low prep, <80% "optimized" on paper, dyno reclass is the way to go. E* non-aero VS E + aero(airdam + wing) track dependent.
At some point, points builds clearly take over. I think that breakpoint is currently around ~90% of allowances/optimization.
Reality is that 99% of cars are currently below 90% optimized.

Anyone building on points, but more than 1lb:hp away from cap and still using glass and OE diff gearing(among other things) is handicapping themselves for no reason. Those are probably the two biggest free mods.
Cap is 16.5, all my * reclasses are around 17.5-17.8.

***Clearly made up numbers, only based on cars I've seen in person and raced against in this, my one and only, rookie, season. LOL***
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:38 AM   #939
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
TLDR of current PTE Meta:

At low prep, <80% "optimized" on paper, dyno reclass is the way to go. E* non-aero VS E + aero(airdam + wing) track dependent.
At some point, points builds clearly take over. I think that breakpoint is currently around ~90% of allowances/optimization.
Reality is that 99% of cars are currently below 90% optimized.

Anyone building on points, but more than 1lb:hp away from cap and still using glass and OE diff gearing(among other things) is handicapping themselves for no reason. Those are probably the two biggest free mods.
Cap is 16.5, all my * reclasses are around 17.5-17.8.

***Clearly made up numbers, only based on cars I've seen in person and raced against in this, my one and only, rookie, season. LOL***

I agree with this. At the regional level for most chapters of NASA, a well sorted dyno reclass NA or NB is lightyears ahead of most builds. I'm on a TTE* dyno reclass and have been out ahead with a comfortable margin at every event I've gone to for quite awhile now, as well as being able to beat every existing track record by 1 to 3 seconds in most cases. Even ones that have stood for years. After the next event I do, I'll have the track records for all five tracks/configs in the Phoenix area. If I had to pick the most important parts to doing this, it would definitely be Xidas with billet coaxial mounts, SADFab delrin suspension bushings with offset front lowers, proper professional alignment/setup and corner balancing, and making good power with my Adaptronic ECU and dyno tuned by UMS Tuning on E85. I'm still on a stock (besides exhintake cam mod) NA8, which is unopened with about 120k miles on it. About 10,000 of those miles are on track. It's starting to smoke on decel but I think I just need to replace valve stem seals...
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Old 10-12-2016, 03:25 AM   #940
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
TLDR of current PTE Meta:

At low prep, <80% "optimized" on paper, dyno reclass is the way to go. E* non-aero VS E + aero(airdam + wing) track dependent.
At some point, points builds clearly take over. I think that breakpoint is currently around ~90% of allowances/optimization.
Reality is that 99% of cars are currently below 90% optimized.

Anyone building on points, but more than 1lb:hp away from cap and still using glass and OE diff gearing(among other things) is handicapping themselves for no reason. Those are probably the two biggest free mods.
Cap is 16.5, all my * reclasses are around 17.5-17.8.

***Clearly made up numbers, only based on cars I've seen in person and raced against in this, my one and only, rookie, season. LOL***
Our choice to stick with points in the face of a possible better opportunity under a reclass was just a decision of convenience. We swapped tire compounds all year long from SM6-R7 by simply handing in paperwork. We knew we were never going over the cap so we never feared the dyno and we were still running similar pw/wt as the PTE* reclass cars. Any of our lower lap times came from driving better. Were there some cars in the region optimized better than us, sure, but they were also driven better too. Hard to quantify.
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