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Old 06-04-2014, 03:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
I agree, full-sweep =/= more accurate in and of itself. Certainly given the ultimatim, I'd take a high-quality short-sweep over a low-quality full-sweep.
However, assuming a high-quality gauge, I want full-sweep for the accuracy in reading the gauge at a quick glance. Having used short-sweep for the past few years and just now experiencing a nice full-sweep, it's a night and day difference in the confidence you have when reading the gauge, and that's going to be important when you only have 1/2 a second to devote to looking at it between corners.



Agreed, a digital dash would be nice, I considered it for a moment but the budget isn't quite there for an all-in-one like that.

OK here's where we are at:

Prosport is out
VDO - I took a look and didn't like what I saw - almost everything is short sweep and it gives me the feeling of a glorified autometer.
Omari - turns out they are out of business
Defi - looks to be great quality, they actually remind me of the Omari stuff a lot. I like what I see here. Retail around $350 for a pair of temp gauges
AccuTech SMi - appears to have all the bells and whistles (full sweep, stepper motor, programmable warning light), and the price is attractive @ $200 for a pair, but I can't be sure about the quality (fake CF background doesn't instill confidence!) and I don't want to be the guinnea pig trying out an unknown... but could be promising.



The more I look at this the more I really like this option. I know SPA makes really good stuff, and $330 looks like a big chunk, but it's actually better than the cost of two Defi gauges...
we are a SPA dealer. We stock a lot of their fire systems. If you need a quote just PM me.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:51 PM   #22
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I just had a quick conversation with Emilio, he had some good input about the AccuTech gauges as well as insight about gauges in general - what's important to have and what isn't.

I checked to be sure he was cool with me putting this info online and he was all for it.

Regarding the AccuTech SMi gauges, this is what they've been using in most of the enduro cars and now most of the SuperMiatas ever since they discovered them.

Some of the enduro cars used to have IQ3 dashes, so in those cases these gauges were just for visual confirmation of readings on track. Now, for many of the SPMs which have a smaller build budget, these are the primary gauges. They did their due dilligence on testing the AccuTech readings side by side with the IQ3 and were happy with the accuracy. And he says he really likes the warning system on them.

They've had only one or two senders go bad for these (and remember this is 949 which is spending more time on track in one year than many of us in a decade), but the nature of the failures were very clear and identifiable - basically a dead gauge - not a case of the gauge reading looking OK but being off by a bit, such as was my problem with the Autometers.

Regarding gauge choices for a race car:

Water Temp, Oil Temp and Coolant pressure are the key gauges to have he said. Oil pressure is less necessary than everyone thinks, if things go bad you won't need a gauge to tell you.
Water pressure is the interesting item to me. Sender location at the back of the head. They run the signal to the IQ3 and set a minimum value with a warning. This is crucial because a cooling system leak, pinhole in the radiator, etc. can often not show itself in the temperature in a good cooling system until it all of a sudden spirals quickly to a total failure, but it will show up in the pressure a few laps earlier.

Given no IQ3, he agreed that a oil pressure gauge re-purposed for coolant pressure would serve the same function (coincidentally, Accutech has a great looking unit)

The only other gauge he put on the list of must haves is fuel pressure IF you run boost - but unnecessary for N/A. But, since I have a wideband front and center already, I will probably not add a fuel pressure gauge for now.

-Ryan
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
For general wiring on the car . . .

This for wire (high heat, abrasion resistant, super-fine tinned strands):
UNSHIELDED WIRE MIL-W-22759/16 from Aircraft Spruce

This for studs (note the feature "tin plated copper wire support sleeve" -- that's the main difference):
RING TONGUE VINYL INSULATED TERMINALS from Aircraft Spruce

This for spades (Style B):
PIDG FASTON RECEPTACLES BY AMP from Aircraft Spruce

This for crimping. BTW, I've noticed something that looks really similar at O'Reilly's. I'm wondering if there are reasonable quality knock-offs out there these days?
22-10AWG TERMINAL CRIMP TOOL from Aircraft Spruce

The studded senders are reliable if you use these types of parts for wiring. They will not be reliable if you wire them with whatever you pick up at the parts store. The advantage to the more expensive senders being discussed is the modern weather-pak style connectors they include which forces you to use good wiring practices. The actual sensing element in both types is the same and probably came from the same foundry.
Awesome info, thank you for this.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:57 PM   #24
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Water pressure gauge can also help show loss of the water pump as well. IIRC some gauge companies actually sell water pressure gauges.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:58 PM   #25
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Excellent! I will bookmark them.
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:19 PM   #26
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It's hard to beat a mechanical gauge for reliability in the face of voltage variations, but accuracy is also meh and you don't get alarms.

I just want an alarm if my oil pressure drops below 18psi or my water temp pushes above 230 degrees on the track so I can keep an eye on it. I'm only glancing at them occasionally otherwise. Many brands will do that.


Besides VDO, I also see ISSPRO in a lot of OEM industrial and heavy truck applications.

If you are truly running all of it, you need an appropriately scaled gauge:

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Old 06-04-2014, 04:35 PM   #27
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****! I thought i had my boost gauge game on lock, and you had to go and post that?

******* Picasa is killing me. I have a VDO 60psi gauge. You'll just have to trust me.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:13 PM   #28
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Pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger on some AccuTechs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
good post Ryan. Do you mind if we use spread this thread out a bit as it progresses to sender discussion and placement as well?
Not at all, on that subject, my current sender locations are:
Water temp - back of head in reroute spacer (ideal)
Oil temp - in drain plug adapter. Pros and cons to this. This location should read slightly lower than other locations might, but on the up-side it's a really consistent, reliable source since it's sampling from the greatest pool of oil. You won't see the temp gauge drop once you get up to speed and get airflow through an oil cooler until all of the oil has cycled through the cooler and come back to the pan.

-Ryan
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:42 PM   #29
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My oil temp sender is in the sandwich adapter. Reads hotter but it's a direct read of the pre-cooler temperature of oil in active circulation.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:49 PM   #30
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What is the consensus on VEI system gauges?

Products - VEI Systems

Both the V1 single gauges and the D1 dual function gauges?

I run one of the dual function wideband/boost gauges in my own car. The boost gauge portion has never worked. I called VEI and the guy was very helpful and told me to send it in and they would fix it at no cost but I was lazy and still haven't done it almost 2 years later. The wideband part however is very accurate and the build quality on the gauge is great. Does anyone else have experience with them?
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:01 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
What is the consensus on VEI system gauges?

Products - VEI Systems

Both the V1 single gauges and the D1 dual function gauges?

I run one of the dual function wideband/boost gauges in my own car. The boost gauge portion has never worked. I called VEI and the guy was very helpful and told me to send it in and they would fix it at no cost but I was lazy and still haven't done it almost 2 years later. The wideband part however is very accurate and the build quality on the gauge is great. Does anyone else have experience with them?
In for the response. Considering running their oil temp/oil pressure gauge.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:04 PM   #32
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I use their dual wideband/boost gauge on the Silver car. I remember there was some kind of issue with it that they immediately fixed with a software upgrade (probably in my build thread). It's been fine ever since, This would have been like 3 or 4 years ago.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:05 PM   #33
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I've been running my SPA dual gauge for 5 years now. I did have to replace the oil pressure sender once. Other than that, no issues.






Edit - each warning light is independently configurable, and there's also an independently configurable output for each readout that you can use to drive a relay to power a warning light somewhere else.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:10 PM   #34
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Found it. Had a software issue that kept me from being able to calibrate the wideband portion of the VEI gauge. No issues whatsoever after the fix.

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Old 06-04-2014, 08:51 PM   #35
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Have you looked into the innovative dual function gauges?
MTX Digital Series "Dual Function" Gauges
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderKunt View Post
Have you looked into the innovative dual function gauges?
MTX Digital Series "Dual Function" Gauges
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
What is the consensus on VEI system gauges?

Products - VEI Systems

Both the V1 single gauges and the D1 dual function gauges?

The outer color bar on both of those is useless. You want data, not fancy colors. The D1 dual gauges seem to be a bit better thought out but still I just get a sense of "tuner" focus and bling from both of them, with not enough focus on just making a gauge that works well - maximum amount of data in a quickly retrievable format. And that doesn't give me good feelings for where their focus was for the build quality.

The SPA gauge looks like the best "dual" gauge I've seen for easily readable display, identifiable ("OIL" is way better than a little oil can symbol - although it's best practice to just add a label to the gauge anyways) and having good construction quality.

Regardless though, I'm going to give the AccuTech oil and water temp gauges a shot. If my experience mirrors how Emilio feels about them, I'll go ahead and get the pressure gauge to use for coolant as well.

-Ryan

Last edited by ThePass; 06-05-2014 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:41 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
What is the consensus on VEI system gauges?

Products - VEI Systems

Both the V1 single gauges and the D1 dual function gauges?
I have two of their gauges. The boost/AFR and oil pressure/temp. Oil temps randomly read incorrectly. Within a 5 second span it will vary up and down 50+f and sometimes past the 320* limit. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason when it happens, steady state cruise, stopped, on the track. Maybe the sender is bad or I need some aircraft grade wiring.

Calibrating the AFR gauge is a giant pain in the ***. It only adjusts up and with 3 digits that means you're hitting the button 90+ times just to cycle back around to a couple points below.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:48 AM   #38
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This thread makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midpack View Post
I have two of their gauges. The boost/AFR and oil pressure/temp. Oil temps randomly read incorrectly. Within a 5 second span it will vary up and down 50+f and sometimes past the 320* limit. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason when it happens, steady state cruise, stopped, on the track. Maybe the sender is bad or I need some aircraft grade wiring.

Calibrating the AFR gauge is a giant pain in the ***. It only adjusts up and with 3 digits that means you're hitting the button 90+ times just to cycle back around to a couple points below.
Might want to check that the temp gauge has a good ground path to the engine block. This kind of randomness sounds like a ground loop.

+1 on AFR calibration. That was a pain. And first time I did it, it didn't work anyway because of a software issue.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:48 PM   #40
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Crap. My confidence level in my 3-4 year old never installed VEI boost/AFR gauge is now waning.
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