bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

There have been a few HPDE fatalities in SOCAL last few years. I was at one of the event just couple of months ago, in the same session, when a fatality occur. This bothered me quite a bit. I see a ton of improper "safety gear" in all HPDE events, most don't understand how safety gears works TOGETHER.

This is for HPDE, not w2w. W2w organizations have their own requirement, so I didn't want to get into it.

please do comment whether you think it needs changes or not. I would like to improve on it. But note I do wanted to keep it simple.

Not in flow chart, but obviously, Miata has to have roll bar and helmet to run any of HPDE events (at least in this country). so that's a given.

this is v2. I gave in and changed it to be more politically correct !!! also changed ** system to ABCDF grading system. easier to understand.



also attached a PDF file for those 35+ years eyes..

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

So if I am reading it correctly. Halo seat/center net + hans + rollbar + extinguisher + fire gear is the only safe way to HPDE a miata?

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

degrees of "safe". anything in green color boxes (**+) is relatively safe.

a bone stock Miata with roll bar is **

a bone stock Miiata / roll bar / with say Sparco Sprint seat is **

a bone stock Miata / roll bar / race seat / paddings / 5/6 point harness / HANS is ***

(roll bar and helmet is a given in a Miata for HPDE. that didn't go into flow chart)

90civichhb

iTrader: (5)

Why do I need all this for HPDE? I would even think some of this is overkill for TT, but maybe I don't value my life as much as others?

k1l4m

iTrader: (2)

^ He's not saying you need all of it. He's saying that if you change one thing, it may make another aspect less safe since everything is meant to work together.


According to this chart, if I want to add an aftermarket steering wheel (no airbag), then I need a 5/6 pt harness, FIA seat, hans, roll bar padding to obtain a ** rating, correct?

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

For when the jackass with a bimmer sideswipes you in a braking zone.

Almost happened to me at the last event I was at.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Yes

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

Nah. Minimum is bone stock. it is relatively safe. a roll bar (for Miata) and a helmet are required for all hpde events, so not listed in flow chart. But obviously are needed

Worst things I've seen are:
1. Going to aftermarket steering wheel but with oem belt.

2. Installing non-asm 4 point belt. This is a death trap

deezums

iTrader: (3)

What about a canadia miata, they come without airbags. That's bone stock and therefore safe.

Is there any actual proof anywhere that the factory belts are going to kill you, because I haven't seen it yet. I'd rather take my chances with the steering wheel than a 25 year old airbag.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Yeah. That guy that destroyed his face on the aftermarket steering wheel.

Thread got deleted/moved because of the gore.

@Joe Perez might know more.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

The OP requested thread deletion due to an ongoing insurance investigation. Didn't want to take any chances with the wrong thing being said, in case a lawyer ever happened across the thread.


Long story short: NA Miata seatbelts have a breakaway section near the lower anchor, which consists of a looped-over section of belt loosely stitched together. In an accident, it's designed to progressively tear away, thus decreasing the severity of the force applied to your abdomen and squishy internal organs. This assumes, of course, that the airbag is there to catch your head at the end of travel. If it's not, your face absorbs the impact, resulting in things like loss of teeth, jaw and skull fractures, death, etc.

This feature isn't unique to the NA. It is seen in many airbag-equipped vehicles of similar vintage.

NBs don't have this tearaway section. It is supposed, but not proven, that they incorporate a similar mechanism within the reel assembly.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Yeah that. it was really gnarly.

deezums

iTrader: (3)

That's backwards to most new cars I'm familiar with, they carry a pyro charge to shorten the belt 1-2" before giving way, never to full length though. If anything, I bet the NB does that.

I think I remember the thread, but no gore. Just a smashed steering wheel from a guy jacking around in the driveway? Same one?

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

There was a gorey jaw picture I thought. The gore got removed at some point too.

k1l4m

iTrader: (2)

Figured. Factory wheel for a bit longer it is.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I have factory belts and 5 point harnesses both, but stopped using the factory belts after reading that thread. I haven't bothered to remove them yet.

jpreston

iTrader: (4)

TT can be just as dangerous if not more dangerous than wheel to wheel racing. Wheel to wheel racing has more car to car contact, but the speed differential is usually pretty low in those incidents. Speed differential, aka, deceleration rate, is what kills. In TT, accidents usually happen because of a tiny mistake while driving at 110%, which can easily send you into a wall at a high speed. Or you spin out and the car stops on track and you get hit by the car behind you, whose driver is so focused on his lap time that he didn't see the yellow flag. Or you come over a blind hill and you're the guy who hits a car that's stopped on track. Senna and Earnhardt both died from impacts with stationary objects...

Not trying to **** on TT, just saying... Don't think you need less safety equipment just because it's TT. I've been going to the track for close to 10 years now, including a small amount of w2w racing, and both crashes I've had were while chasing lap records in TT.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

But do you wear your Hans too?

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

Yes. Please do wear HANS with 5 point.

You can Google ******* damage with 5 point harness very gnarly !!

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Pretensioners (pyro charges) and breakaway mechanisms are different concepts which address different requirements. One does not replace the other.

The function of the pretensioner (which the later NBs have) is to ensure that, prior to impact, the seat belt is fully retracted and in maximum contact with the body. This ensures that it has the maximum possible time / distance in which to capture and decelerate the body.

The breakaway / gradual release mechanism comes into play after the body has engaged the seatbelt. It spreads out the force of deceleration over time, rather than just stopping the body all at once. This decreases the forces applied to the organs of the chest and abdomen, and reduces the probability of internal injury.



There was no gore in the thread of which I speak. Just a smashed car, a bent steering wheel, and a vivid description.