Oil cooler tech - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-31-2014, 01:50 PM   #21
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,514
Total Cats: 253
Default

You would have 4 lines in total. Two from block to remote oil mount, two from thermostat to oil cooler. thermostat and remote oil mount are sandwiched.

as for mocal: I'm cheap.
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 03:09 PM   #22
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 13,733
Total Cats: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Is there any thermostatic sandwich plate worth considering? The Mocal one is extra-baller, but a bit rich for my blood.

I was thinking something more like the $30 derale thermostatic adapter
Ports are way too small. 3/8" is equivalent to -6AN. -8AN is acceptable, but still reduces system pressure. -6AN is not big enough, period.

GM version is OK, although I vastly prefer the BSPP/Dowty seal setup that Mocal uses over NPT. I also don't see a GM-style 1/2" adapter in the proper M20 thread.

IMO, the added cost is worth it. Mocal is what OEMs use when they need a sandwich plate adapter. It's $122 including the adapters and Dowty seals, so we're not talking about a several hundred dollar difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krissetsfire View Post
Can you please be more specific about this? What does the warmer accomplish by being in place? A lot of people have 1.8+ swapped into their 90-93. As I'm re-using my 1.6 oil cooler I'm sure others are too. I.E. I don't have the warmer . I do have a fancy glow shift plate.
The fittings on the Mocal plate contact the block if you just bolt the sandwich adapter onto the 1.6 without a spacer. The 1.8L warmer spaces the sandwich adapter out so there's clearance between the block and the fittings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1824 View Post
See, I took a look at the TSE kit, and thought "Do I want my oil thermostat to open at 180*? That seems low..."

Does anyone know if 180* for the oil is too low? Does anyone know what temperature range oil stays at during street driving with a stock setup(no cooler)?
180*F is fine. Mocal does makes a 205*F version, specified for marine and aviation use where the oil being used is thicker than normal automotive-application oil. Running a 180*F Mocal adapter, I used to see warmed-up street temps in the 190-200*F range. You want to get the oil up to ~180*F, but it's less about viscosity and more about heating off the fuel and water that inevitably makes its way into the crankcase as the engine operates. Changing the weight of the oil you run has a larger effect on viscosity than the difference between 180*F and 205*F.



edit: Correction, 205*F sandwich adapters are in such low demand that Mocal does not stock them, so I can't get them without a large pre-order.
Attached Thumbnails
Oil cooler tech-viscosityvstemperature400.gif  

Last edited by Savington; 07-31-2014 at 03:43 PM. Reason: corrected info on 205*F thermostat availability
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 03:16 PM   #23
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 12,711
Total Cats: 849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Is there any thermostatic sandwich plate worth considering? The Mocal one is extra-baller, but a bit rich for my blood.

I was thinking something more like the $30 derale thermostatic adapter
After using a cheap sandwich plate and then loosing oil pressure the extra money spend on a Mocal is totally worth it in my mind.
shuiend is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 06:27 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 187
Total Cats: 10
Default

So n/a car with a/c it's preferable to mount the oil cooler in FRONT of the radiator? How come I saw Emilio put the oil cooler in the engine compartment BEHIND the radiator in his OGK car?



What about mounting the oil cooler to the steering rack like FLyin' Miata? Let's talk about oil cooler durability in the event of an off-course excursion.
freedomgli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 06:30 PM   #25
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,845
Total Cats: 559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
After using a cheap sandwich plate and then loosing oil pressure the extra money spend on a Mocal is totally worth it in my mind.
What caused the oil pressure loss?
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 06:39 PM   #26
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 5,845
Total Cats: 559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
3/8" is equivalent to -6AN.
3/8NPT is the standard pipe thread for -8 (8/16=1/2") AN fittings. 1/2NPT is the standard pipe thread for -10 (10/16 = 5/8") AN fittings. 3/8NPT is not equivalent to -6AN.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 06:53 PM   #27
Newb
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 38
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
So n/a car with a/c it's preferable to mount the oil cooler in FRONT of the radiator? How come I saw Emilio put the oil cooler in the engine compartment BEHIND the radiator in his OGK car?



What about mounting the oil cooler to the steering rack like FLyin' Miata? Let's talk about oil cooler durability in the event of an off-course excursion.
Looks like they mounted it this way to warm the oil in the cooler . Some race engines run extremely to cold .
AlwaysOnKill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:43 PM   #28
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 13,733
Total Cats: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
So n/a car with a/c it's preferable to mount the oil cooler in FRONT of the radiator? How come I saw Emilio put the oil cooler in the engine compartment BEHIND the radiator in his OGK car?
Never assume that something is preferable just because you saw it done on a purpose built race car. You'll also note the stock radiator used in that particular configuration of Crusher (not the OGK) as well as a flat piece of ABS to limit the airflow through that stock radiator. That motor was not a normal BP motor, and the 25 Hours of Thunderhill is not a normal race. Emilio can elaborate on the particulars of that engine if he so desires

Quote:
What about mounting the oil cooler to the steering rack like FLyin' Miata? Let's talk about oil cooler durability in the event of an off-course excursion.
It's the only mounting location that is universal to pretty much all applications. It's also highly prone to damage if one were to go off-track. It's not a mounting location I would recommend.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:43 PM   #29
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,050
Total Cats: 813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
So n/a car with a/c it's preferable to mount the oil cooler in FRONT of the radiator? How come I saw Emilio put the oil cooler in the engine compartment BEHIND the radiator in his OGK car?
I believe due to the configuration of that particular motor, there were troubles getting it UP to temprature. Notice how half the radiator is blocked off? That is not any sort of standard configuration, do not copy it. That picture has really fucked up peoples brains.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:57 PM   #30
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,514
Total Cats: 253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
3/8NPT is the standard pipe thread for -8 (8/16=1/2") AN fittings. 1/2NPT is the standard pipe thread for -10 (10/16 = 5/8") AN fittings. 3/8NPT is not equivalent to -6AN.
yarrr

I measured a -10AN hose end I have laying around and its 0.465" ID.
I haven't seen 3/8 NPT fittings go over 0.4" ID.

1/2 NPT would be better.
Attached Thumbnails
Oil cooler tech-professional_products_an_fittings.jpg  
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 08:09 PM   #31
Newb
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 3
Default

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but I'd be interested in opinions on their setup. Motoiq has their oil cooler mounted behind the radiator as well, but in a much different fashion.

Project S2000 - Oil Cooling
Zissou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 09:00 PM   #32
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
williams805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goleta, Southern California
Posts: 500
Total Cats: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1824 View Post
Does anyone know what temperature range oil stays at during street driving with a stock setup(no cooler)?

Thanks
-Dustin
I had the oil temp sender in a sandwich plate and saw 230 pretty consistently. All warmed up driving down the highway in 70 degree weather on a bone stock '96 1.8L.
I saw north of 270 degrees on mountain roads in 80 degree ambient, driving spireted but certainly nothing close to track driving. (Same car)

My '99 had the same oil temp sender location ^ and similar oil temps before I put the blower back on. With the charger on, I back off when I see 280. I need an oil cooler soooon.

I could easily see how a stock miata on a track on a warm day would have dangerous high oil temps.
williams805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:32 PM   #33
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 84
Total Cats: 2
Default

So the Mocal adapter has no ports for sensors does it? So would the preferred method to measure the temp and pressure with this kit would be to add a sandwich plate as well as the Mocal adapter?

Block - Factory 1.8 warmer - Mocal spacer - sensor sandwich plate - filter?

Seems crazy
fail wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:33 PM   #34
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 13,733
Total Cats: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fail wagon View Post
So the preferred method to measure the temp and pressure with this kit would be to add a sandwich plate on top of the Mocal adapter?

Block - Factory 1.8 warmer - Mocal spacer - sensor sandwich plate - filter?

Seems a little crazy.
The preferred method is a bung in the oil pan.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:57 AM   #35
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 316
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post

180*F is fine. Running a 180*F Mocal adapter, I used to see warmed-up street temps in the 190-200*F range. You want to get the oil up to ~180*F, but it's less about viscosity and more about heating off the fuel and water that inevitably makes its way into the crankcase as the engine operates. Changing the weight of the oil you run has a larger effect on viscosity than the difference between 180*F and 205*F.

So in this case, it seems that the oil cooler doesn't affect the street driving temps dramatically, sounds like a good thing. I was concerned with 180* oil temps, but it's apparently not an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by williams805 View Post
I had the oil temp sender in a sandwich plate and saw 230 pretty consistently. All warmed up driving down the highway in 70 degree weather on a bone stock '96 1.8L.
I saw north of 270 degrees on mountain roads in 80 degree ambient, driving spireted but certainly nothing close to track driving. (Same car)

I could easily see how a stock miata on a track on a warm day would have dangerous high oil temps.
Wow, spirited street driving seems to have a very large effect on oil temps, more than I would have guessed.

Here's an interesting thought from an uninformed source: Lets say your current car hits 260* spikes during track use with 10W-30. After you install an oil cooler, you only hit 220* during track use. At 220*, 5W-20 is the same viscosity as your 10W-30 was at 260*, so in theory, you could switch to the 5W-20 because you would be at the same viscosity as before, but at much safer oil temps. Would this help free up a little bit of power safely?

-Dustin
Dustin1824 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 02:17 AM   #36
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 13,733
Total Cats: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1824 View Post
Here's an interesting thought from an uninformed source: Lets say your current car hits 260* spikes during track use with 10W-30. After you install an oil cooler, you only hit 220* during track use. At 220*, 5W-20 is the same viscosity as your 10W-30 was at 260*, so in theory, you could switch to the 5W-20 because you would be at the same viscosity as before, but at much safer oil temps. Would this help free up a little bit of power safely?

-Dustin
Free up power? Yes. Safely? Ehhhhh...
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 02:35 AM   #37
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,181
Total Cats: 249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fail wagon View Post
So the Mocal adapter has no ports for sensors does it? So would the preferred method to measure the temp and pressure with this kit would be to add a sandwich plate as well as the Mocal adapter?

Block - Factory 1.8 warmer - Mocal spacer - sensor sandwich plate - filter?

Seems crazy
IIRC, there are spots on the Mocal adapter that you can drill and tap for a sender.

Another option is an inline AN adapter in the line going to the cooler. It won't read accurately until the thermostat opens, but you don't really care what the oil temp is below the thermostat opening point, right?

Here's an expensive pre-made one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aa...0040/overview/

I have a 13-row Setrab on the FM steering rack mount with -10AN fittings. It works pretty well, but is definitely in a vulnerable location. One additional downside is that 13 rows is the max you can fit, I have a 19 row Mocal that I originally bought to use with it, but the fittings want to be where the sway bar is. On the plus side, the lines are nice and short. (Note that the kit FM sells uses -8 -- I agree that's too small, so I built mine with -10)

--Ian

Last edited by codrus; 08-01-2014 at 02:45 AM.
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 10:49 AM   #38
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 12,711
Total Cats: 849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
What caused the oil pressure loss?
Something in the cheap glowshift sandwich plate I had caused the oil pressure loss. Never pulled it apart enough to figure it out exactly as I was to pissed with the sandwich plate.
shuiend is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:02 AM   #39
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,514
Total Cats: 253
Default

you can use this thing - its cheap ($13.97) and doesn't need extra fittings

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-670360/overview/

Attached Thumbnails
Oil cooler tech-rus-670360_w_xl.jpg  
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 11:05 AM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,514
Total Cats: 253
Default

soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 03:00 PM
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 8 03-21-2016 10:53 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 09:39 AM
Moroso Air Oil Separator Catch Can Aroundcorner Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 03:20 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 PM.