Idle valve Idea for JRSC m45 kits
01-25-2015, 07:59 PM
#21
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 79
Total Cats: -9
Definitely get a wideband. Who knows if the voodoo is working properly or wired in correctly or has a vaccum leak?? You could (and I would reccomend) skipping the timing box at 1st. Get the car running safely with your timing at 5 or 6 degrees btdc,(I forget what JR reccomends) then start pushing the envelope with timing. The plus side is that you will get to feel what difference is made and appreciate each step more. (and stay safe / not have to replace your head gasket)
Last edited by lexintexan; 01-25-2015 at 08:19 PM.
Reply
0
0
01-25-2015, 09:34 PM
#22
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
I am recommending that you read the Corky Bell Book 
Corky Bell "Supercharged"
Sea level is good, you will have more power and probably can get good gas (93 octane). Don't even think of running lower octane.
Sea level is bad, it could push your fuel system to its capacity limits.
The issue here is that you will be increasing the fuel demands on the existing fuel system without any instrumentation to verify that the fuel system:
a - has the capacity to support the increased requirement
b - is actually providing the increased fuel
I don't think you will ~ need ~ to get different injectors initially, and I would suggest that you don't, assuming that you are able to check the function of the fuel system. The best method to do this would be with a wideband air to fuel meter. This device will tell you what you A/F is real time.
The JRSC installation manual instructs you to check the fuel pressure for the dynamic rate fuel pressure regulator. This method of fuel management is "dumb" because it simply increases the fuel pressure at a 10:1 (relative to manifold pressure) ratio when in boost. While this is a crude method, it does achieve one benefit; it increases the capacity of your fuel system by increasing the fuel pressure.
The voodoo box on the other hand uses a superior method of increasing the injector on-time. This allows the injector to exhibit more predictable and linear characteristics because the pressure differential across the injector remains constant. Injector behavior changes with differential pressure. The Voodoo box does not however increase the capacity of the fuel system. So for instance, if the stock ECU is commanding 80% of the available fuel capacity (which is a measurement of time -> read book) and you need an additional 30% of fuel, then you will run into two major problems. First, the injectors only have 20% left to give, which will run you lean and could cause bad things to happen, and second, you will run the injectors at a duty-cycle that will exceed their ability to dissipate the heat that builds up in the coils, potentially causing malfunction.
So, what do you do?
Check the fuel pressure. Old fuel pumps and old pressure regulators can wear out. Charging/Battery system degradation can reduce the fuel pump's flow rate for a given pressure. Sans a manifold pressure reference (see boost gauge) you will have to be organized about how you do this. We can discuss later if needed.
Set base timing to 6 - 8 degrees.
Install an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. Adjusting the fuel pressure can get you a higher fuel capacity with your otherwise stock fuel system. Play around with the calculators here:
Fuel Injector Calculator from WitchHunter Performance
to see what that means.
When you can, instrument your car. I am a huge fan of instrumentation. The base instrumentation would be the A/F (wideband), manifold pressure (Boost), and Fuel pressure. The fuel pressure doesn't even need to be piped into the cabin, but it is a lot better that way.
I know this seems like a lot, but I promise if you read that book, it will not seem so daunting.
Corky Bell "Supercharged"
Sea level is good, you will have more power and probably can get good gas (93 octane). Don't even think of running lower octane.
Sea level is bad, it could push your fuel system to its capacity limits.
The issue here is that you will be increasing the fuel demands on the existing fuel system without any instrumentation to verify that the fuel system:
a - has the capacity to support the increased requirement
b - is actually providing the increased fuel
I don't think you will ~ need ~ to get different injectors initially, and I would suggest that you don't, assuming that you are able to check the function of the fuel system. The best method to do this would be with a wideband air to fuel meter. This device will tell you what you A/F is real time.
The JRSC installation manual instructs you to check the fuel pressure for the dynamic rate fuel pressure regulator. This method of fuel management is "dumb" because it simply increases the fuel pressure at a 10:1 (relative to manifold pressure) ratio when in boost. While this is a crude method, it does achieve one benefit; it increases the capacity of your fuel system by increasing the fuel pressure.
The voodoo box on the other hand uses a superior method of increasing the injector on-time. This allows the injector to exhibit more predictable and linear characteristics because the pressure differential across the injector remains constant. Injector behavior changes with differential pressure. The Voodoo box does not however increase the capacity of the fuel system. So for instance, if the stock ECU is commanding 80% of the available fuel capacity (which is a measurement of time -> read book) and you need an additional 30% of fuel, then you will run into two major problems. First, the injectors only have 20% left to give, which will run you lean and could cause bad things to happen, and second, you will run the injectors at a duty-cycle that will exceed their ability to dissipate the heat that builds up in the coils, potentially causing malfunction.
So, what do you do?
Check the fuel pressure. Old fuel pumps and old pressure regulators can wear out. Charging/Battery system degradation can reduce the fuel pump's flow rate for a given pressure. Sans a manifold pressure reference (see boost gauge) you will have to be organized about how you do this. We can discuss later if needed.
Set base timing to 6 - 8 degrees.
Install an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. Adjusting the fuel pressure can get you a higher fuel capacity with your otherwise stock fuel system. Play around with the calculators here:
Fuel Injector Calculator from WitchHunter Performance
to see what that means.
When you can, instrument your car. I am a huge fan of instrumentation. The base instrumentation would be the A/F (wideband), manifold pressure (Boost), and Fuel pressure. The fuel pressure doesn't even need to be piped into the cabin, but it is a lot better that way.
I know this seems like a lot, but I promise if you read that book, it will not seem so daunting.
Reply
0
0
01-30-2015, 09:39 AM
#25
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 79
Total Cats: -9
LC1 is a great wideband.(Although they now have an lc2 for roughly the same price) It will let you know if your voodoo box or whatever you wind up using to control fuel is working, and if its working hard enough. The lower the numbers, the richer the engine is running. You will want to see 14.7 at idle / cruise. You will want to see 11:1 to 12:1 at wide open throttle / in boost. you will want to see 22:1 when coasting (no throttle).
Once your afrs read like that (or close to it) then get a bipes or msd box if you want to play with it. BTW I would reccomend starting with a base timing of 6 degrees rather than 8. Baby steps. (unless you like repairing things that break)
Once your afrs read like that (or close to it) then get a bipes or msd box if you want to play with it. BTW I would reccomend starting with a base timing of 6 degrees rather than 8. Baby steps. (unless you like repairing things that break)
Reply
0
0
01-30-2015, 11:17 PM
#26
Sir, open up that wastegate so you're not spooling before you blow your **** up. You have some reading to do.
Reply
0
0
01-30-2015, 11:26 PM
#27
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
You can set the base timing with the CAS and go safe. As I mentioned, 6-8 is advisable. Six is safer than 8, but with this setup you will not be running much boost. It is really easy to set, you can run 6 at first and then go to 8 once you get it fueled properly if you want.
The WB will help you dial the Voodoo in as well as telling you if you have a fueling problem. You will want this. I run AEM, innovate also makes good stuff I hear, get the one with a gauge.
The fuel pressure/capacity text from my previous post still holds.
The WB will help you dial the Voodoo in as well as telling you if you have a fueling problem. You will want this. I run AEM, innovate also makes good stuff I hear, get the one with a gauge.
The fuel pressure/capacity text from my previous post still holds.
Reply
0
0
02-02-2015, 02:01 AM
#29
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 54
Total Cats: -19
Don't have idle droop cause I haven't put in the SC yet. I have the dual trottle body which supposed to cure that problem anyway. I've just changing the oil on the sc and when the weather clears, getting the timing belt and waterpump changed. It's too damn cold in the garage to do any work right now
Reply
0
0
02-03-2015, 11:45 AM
#30
All the problems of the Moss/TDR/"who ever slapped their logo on someone else's parts and sold it to you" dose even know how this **** really works. MP blowers are not ment to be on the hot side of a inline motor. They picked up a cheap blower, made a bracket, and got some really shitty piggy backs.
The only way to fix the idle and driveability problem is to idle the car over 1500rmp or go standalone. Duel bodies are a pain in the *** is a band aid. The piggy backs you are running are costing you ~1/4 at the minimum of available power out put. Found 60whp (190 to 250) going from tdr tuned powdercards to a MS2 the first time to the dyno. If you want perfect driveability go stand alone and put the TB back on the intake manifold.
The only way to fix the idle and driveability problem is to idle the car over 1500rmp or go standalone. Duel bodies are a pain in the *** is a band aid. The piggy backs you are running are costing you ~1/4 at the minimum of available power out put. Found 60whp (190 to 250) going from tdr tuned powdercards to a MS2 the first time to the dyno. If you want perfect driveability go stand alone and put the TB back on the intake manifold.
Reply
0
0
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Frank_and_Beans
Supercharger Discussion
13
09-12-2016 08:17 PM
