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Old 03-12-2008, 06:45 PM   #21
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Default Red and black material

Ok, final version..

Talked to Brian Littlejohn, the engineer who actually made the kit. The Miata kit is not graphite impregnated. The red and black are the same non-impregnated material. Turns out virtually none of the OE replacement control arm kits for any car are impregnated. I will only stock the black because it's more stealth.

Also Bill durometer specs are what they made. I measured the first set I got in about an hour ago. So no toe control compliance built in to the rear kit.

95 durometer front uppers and sway bar bushings
88 durometer everywhere else

Super Pro 80 durometer
Polybush orange 75
Polybush blue 65
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:55 PM   #22
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Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:48 PM   #23
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thanks for the leg work, its appreciated
i will shove my foot in my mouth now...repeatedly
i still like the black ones better for same reason as why you will stock them...
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:43 PM   #24
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is it a huge stretch to make the graphite impregnated variety or did he give any indication of performance differential? I suppose a nice can of molybdenum lube would go a long way to provide a dry film lubrication.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:59 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
is it a huge stretch to make the graphite impregnated variety or did he give any indication of performance differential? I suppose a nice can of molybdenum lube would go a long way to provide a dry film lubrication.
Not needed. Brian does not neccesarily speak corporate-ese. What you get with graphite is a better failure mode essentially. The graphite is only really useful if in an application where there might be potential for rapid complete failure like off road racing and industrial applications. The idea is the graphite is encapsulated and will be exposed as the bushing wears down. Of course, it's better to have them not wear down and just manually lube them every few years if needed. Doing graphites increases the costs and lead time. I have no interest in graphites at this point.

He told me in all honesty that you could assemble the Miata kit bone dry (Don't!) and it would probably last 15 years, just squeaky. The lube provided increases life, reduces friction and keeps them quiet.

Another cool tidbit, the two piece bushing is designed to have a .050" gap when installed. You can add a bit more lube to the opposing faces when installing and have a bit of a reservoir acting directly on the center pin.

One could also careful align a zerk to fill that void. He emphatically recommended against using a powered grease gun, manual only, two pumps max.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:17 PM   #26
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Is the toe control feature designed into the OEM bushings even an issue with aftermarket bushings?
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soflarick View Post
Is the toe control feature designed into the OEM bushings even an issue with aftermarket bushings?
Depends on who you ask. Some aftermarkets may have multi durometer, the Energy and Super Pro do not.

Without the compliance effect, you get no dynamic toe in. That might mean running factory rear toe setting for autocross or track use as opposed to the zero toe I recommend for factory bushings. No exact value, just experiment and see what works for you.

I'm compiling a list for all the durometer values I can find for all the OE and aftermarket kits. If anyone has accurate data to share, please do.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:41 AM   #28
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Checked durometers and they match Bill's original request and Brian's data.

88 Energy Suspension front lower and all rear control arm
95 Energy Suspension front upper, sway bar and differential mount
80 Super Pro control arm, all
65 Polybush blue- soft
75 Polybush orange- sport
? Powerflex
70 Maruha rubber
55-65 Mazda Comp rubber

Safe to say the ES will be the best peformance option. No idea on ride quality yet as I haven't gotten them in a car yet. Planning a test session in about 10 days at Streets of Willow.

Base kit - Control arms only
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:39 AM   #29
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A couple of questions about installing the zerks:

-Did you drill all the way through the bushing? It would seem so, since you'd want the grease to distribute to the inside of the bushing.
-How much does the zerk protrude into the bushing?
-Is there any fear of the zerk fixing the bushing in place.
-Any advantage in using thread in vs press in?

Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
-Is there any fear of the zerk fixing the bushing in place.
Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the urethane part is fixed relative to the control arm for example. The movement occurs between the urethane part and the metal sleeve. The zerk fitting is not long enough to disrupt this movement.
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Damn nice that they groove the inside of the bushings.

C
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #32
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RISE, ZOMBIE THREAD!
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.


I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.

Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:

-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)

-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.

-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.

Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?

Thanks-
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:04 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexblue View Post
RISE, ZOMBIE THREAD!
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.


I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.

Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:

-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)

-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.

-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.

Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?

Thanks-
We don't take any of the steps mentioned. The thrust end of the bushings needs to be lubes as generously as the pivot pin. There will be some stiction when it's all buttoned up and torqued. Rough guess, <25lbs breakaway torque and maybe 10lbs continuous to move it. Much more than that and you can dig back into to fine tune things.
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