need help tuning adaptronic / Rotrex / E85 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-06-2010, 04:54 AM   #1
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Default need help tuning adaptronic / Rotrex / E85

download the base map, took it to dyno shop and got it tuned. but most of the tunes are just on fuel and ignition map. car runs great on track. but a few nagging issues, any expert here can look at my map ?

1. cold start is just horrible. E85 does it, but it is pretty ridiculous like 3 minutes to start in the morning, and it isnt even that cold now.

2. I have some hesitation issue when car warms up, roughly 3 laps into a session. if on wot, it hesitates. still not sure if it is ECU related, or most likely a fault with ground. have been checking all the wires near cas. it seem by moving the wire loom there, car stumble (only when hot and happens 20% of time why I wiggle the wires). since wiring is very difficult to track down, I was hoping may be it is the ECU. has to do with coolant trim ?

let me know if I should post screen shot, and just send you my ecu file. thanks.

note I am a complete ECU noob. so pls bear with me.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:07 AM   #2
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Are you using the latest firmware? I had some intermittent very short hesitations at various rpms's that seems to have went away with one of the later versions of the firmware.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:06 AM   #3
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Post up a screen shot of your cranking fuel enrichments and what size injectors are you using?
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:05 PM   #4
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with E85, you'll probably have some huge numbers in your cranking table depending on your injector size.

if you have 550-600cc injectors, I'd guess you need to start with around 10ms of injection time at 0C (100 ms/10 in the table) and taper down from there.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:08 PM   #5
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thanks guys. I am using 550c injectors. older firmware (because this was early Dec, before 2.0 was release) because I was worried changing too much variables.

with this crank fuel, I am also having a bit of backfire at starting up.

from a post I saw at adptronic.com.au. someone said it was better when they ran 3000 for dwell time (under trigger setup). I am currently on 5000. not sure it that mattered.

I am running GM 3 bar map,
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:23 PM   #6
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is your trigger set up to be rising edge / rising edge?

at what temp does it start ok?

I still vote more fuel.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:35 PM   #7
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Add much more cranking fuel. Ethanol is harder to burn, so I would imagine the initial start up would be a more painful. Also check your map predictive transients for the random miss on transients. Increase high MAP coolant enrichment. The car needs gobbles of fuel to work well at WOT when everything's not warmed up.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
is your trigger set up to be rising edge / rising edge?

at what temp does it start ok?
see attached.

any early morning, ~45-60F. I have difficulty starting.
60-80F, may be 2 minutes.
80F and more, starting takes 30 seconds.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Add much more cranking fuel. Ethanol is harder to burn, so I would imagine the initial start up would be a more painful. Also check your map predictive transients for the random miss on transients. Increase high MAP coolant enrichment. The car needs gobbles of fuel to work well at WOT when everything's not warmed up.
I am getting a bit of misfire at startup since I've adjusted set crank fuel up. so add more fuel ?

when you say "increase high MAP coolant enrichment", you meant this graph ? and increase across the board ? 10%, 50% ? or you meant kPa ?

sorry about all the noob question. thanks.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:01 PM   #10
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it's (triggering) set up right.

just increase everything in your cranking map by 20-25% and give it a whirl.

remember, cranking enrichments START at your 100kPa fuel values. go look at a few tuned cells in that row and put those numbers in your 60-80F cranking values. I can tell without looking at your fuel map that you're 25% low there.

and in a cold engine, there's almost no fuel vapor since it condenses on whatever cold hard parts are near by. you essentially have to saturate all that AND have some vapor left over.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:53 PM   #11
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Does long cranking always indicate there is not enough fuel (assuming everything else works the way it should)? How do you know if you have either too much or too little fuel?
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:27 PM   #12
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I will try that tomorrow. any other tricks other than adding more fuel ? thanks
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
from a post I saw at adptronic.com.au. someone said it was better when they ran 3000 for dwell time (under trigger setup). I am currently on 5000. not sure it that mattered.
That was me but I'm running the default dwell of 2100 again now. The reason for my poor starts was because my headgasket was partially blown and it was letting coolant into all 4 of the cylinders!!
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by saboteur View Post
That was me but I'm running the default dwell of 2100 again now. The reason for my poor starts was because my headgasket was partially blown and it was letting coolant into all 4 of the cylinders!!
thanks. I used the default base map, and the dwell is 5000, strange.

what other setting do you guys change from the base map, other than the tuning maps (fuel and ignition) ?
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:32 AM   #15
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start with just the fuel and raise the whole map.


I take back what I said about 25%. I think you might need to add 80% to the whole cranking map.

You will probably end up with values like 180 at 0C and 90 at 25C and maybe 60 from 90C on up.
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
start with just the fuel and raise the whole map.


I take back what I said about 25%. I think you might need to add 80% to the whole cranking map.

You will probably end up with values like 180 at 0C and 90 at 25C and maybe 60 from 90C on up.
thanks. tried it today at Street of Willow, weather was about 55F in the morning, started in 15 seconds. great !!
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:27 PM   #17
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keep adding. it should start in like two seconds.
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:42 AM   #18
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again thanks very much !!
no to a new issue at track, transient throttle.
note this is a track car only, so mostly 30-100% throttle all the time.

coming out of a corner, if I crack open the throttle. It would hesitates for a second, than catches. it is upsetting the car a lot. it does this ~5 times per lap. very annoying. I used Neo's setting on Predicted Map. not much changed. note I have a supercharger.

biggest difference came from Async Gain was changing from 100 down to 10. it fixed most of the hiccups (from 15 to 5 per lap). tried transition time from 50 to 500ms, not much difference either.

i read the transient throttle pdf and the thread. understand it, except for the async gain. not sure what that does.

my dwell timing has been set to 3,000

I data logged my entire session. value is not too far off Neo table. but value flutuate a lot, it could be a 60 or 110 for the same TPS and same rpm.

hoping you could take an educated guess as to what others I can try. thanks !!

Last edited by bellwilliam; 01-10-2010 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
again thanks very much !!
no to a new issue at track, transient throttle.
note this is a track car only, so mostly 30-100% throttle all the time.

coming out of a corner, if I crack open the throttle. It would hesitates for a second, than catches. it is upsetting the car a lot. it does this ~5 times per lap. very annoying. I used Neo's setting on Predicted Map. not much changed. note I have a supercharger.

biggest difference came from Async Gain was changing from 100 down to 10. it fixed most of the hiccups (from 15 to 5 per lap). tried transition time from 50 to 500ms, not much difference either.

i read the transient throttle pdf and the thread. understand it, except for the async gain. not sure what that does.

my dwell timing has been set to 3,000

I data logged my entire session. value is not too far off Neo table. but value flutuate a lot, it could be a 60 or 110 for the same TPS and same rpm.

hoping you could take an educated guess as to what others I can try. thanks !!
Did you update your transient map for your supercharger? It should be pretty different from a turbocharged engine.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:12 PM   #20
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Travis, do you mean this ? I data logged couple of sessions on track. and kind of copied into this table.
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