Really high idle - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-22-2010, 08:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ismael_pt View Post
Prospero,

Your car is running +50 vvt advance, that's the reason for high load at idle. Unplug the vvt connector on the valve cover.

Check my "Have I screwed up my ocv valve" thread.
Ahh, so basically I am just gonna disable my vvt for ever and ever, amen?

I'll do that as soon as I get home and see what happens. It's strange, that's for sure.

Thanks for the input!!!

Y8S, thanks for the offer... lemme see how this car painting thing goes and if I don't manage to paint myself into a corner...

Cheers,
Matt
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ismael_pt View Post
Prospero,

Your car is running +50 vvt advance, that's the reason for high load at idle. Unplug the vvt connector on the valve cover.

Check my "Have I screwed up my ocv valve" thread.
Wouldn't it make more sense to set the reference angle so his VVT degrees matches the VVT target map?
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:07 PM   #23
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Wouldn't it make more sense to set the reference angle so his VVT degrees matches the VVT target map?
That will not solve the problem. The problem lies basically in the high current outputs. The auxiliary output 3 has died and now throws 14 volts continuously, even deactivated from Wari. This is the reason that the VVT is advanced to the maximum. The remaining high-current auxiliary outputs are also affected, in my case the aux-out for idle suffers a small voltage drop ...

I've communicated to Travis and I hope he gets some response from the guys of Adaptronic
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:34 PM   #24
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so the high current / pwm outputs die when .. used?
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:46 PM   #25
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so the high current / pwm outputs die when .. used?
Based on the events that happened so far, yes.
My aux-out3 died weeks after being activated. Prospero also recently activated its own, and now has the same problem as me.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:54 PM   #26
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Based on the events that happened so far, yes.
My aux-out3 died weeks after being activated. Prospero also recently activated its own, and now has the same problem as me.
Yep, it is possible that my outputs have died too. 2 comments from a close friend of mine...

1) Hey did you put a cam in that thing?
2) What electronic thing did you burn in order to get the car to smell like that?

I pulled the connector and the car is great... Idle and kpa are all groovy... ohh, and no more burning electronics smell.

Guess I will have to look into this now as well. Out to the car with a meter, glass of wine, and a smoke...

Cheers,
Matt
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:33 PM   #27
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We need a little more data from you to figure all this out. The output of the valve is going to be 14.4 volts no matter what. All the PWM are pull down PWM, meaning they ground the circuit. So on both leads of your valve your going to see system voltage. Have you tried setting your VVT so that its either 0% and to a 100% duty cycle to make sure that doesn't change anything?
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:56 PM   #28
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Yes, I played out with the duty cycles and offset. Even I've tried turning off the PWM output. The only way to calmdown the intake cam is disconnecting the ocv valve.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:12 PM   #29
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Yes, I played out with the duty cycles and offset. Even I've tried turning off the PWM output. The only way to calmdown the intake cam is disconnecting the ocv valve.
Ok, they are still looking into it. I sent them about 3 pages worth of information on this and they haven't responded yet. My guess is that they are still thinking about and analyzing the information I gave them to come up with a solution.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:17 PM   #30
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Thanks Travis! I hope they find the solution soon
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:02 PM   #31
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We finally cracked this intermittent rough idle issue, and it explains exactly what I’ve observed. Adaptronic has tracked down that there is an intermittent ability of a certain diode inside the Adaptronic to handle the VVT mechanism. For whatever reason the VVT valve on these cars really kick back a strong pulse through the VVT driver in the ECU. Some of the ECU’s can handle the kick back, and some cant. It’s a flip of the coin with the component that’s in there. Its within the tolerance of a manufactured part that the diode works correctly. If it’s just by chance manufactured well then its fine. If its manufactured poorly then it doesn’t work, and this effects your idle and everything else while it’s at it.

What’s weird about this is that some ECU’s like I said do fine. Some ECU’s run for months and months and then snap and become hard to idle. Some never idle at all. That’s why I was having real issues with what’s going on. I was seeing that some people could idle them fine and if the car wasn’t idling temperature change, or poor tuning must be causing the issue. I never suspected the hardware in the ECU itself until I presented all this information to Adaptronic. They then put the pieces together and informed me that they had seen another case of this and thought it was truly intermittent. The intermittent part is also why they didn't catch it. After I started really pushing the ECU's and we got a significant enough amount of Adaptronics running VVT that some were not doing the job it became evident to them something else was amiss.

Thankfully the change to fix this is relatively easy. If you could ship your Adaptronic back I can fix the board and you shouldn’t have any other issues. It should be easy to idle just like everyone else’s vehicle.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:11 PM   #32
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How do we know if our ECU is affected by this or not without actually noticing the issue?
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:18 PM   #33
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Is there a proactive fix for this? I haven't installed mine yet and don't have VVT. However, If there is a flaw in the ECU even for a feature I don't use I'd rather have it fixed now and future proof myself.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:14 PM   #34
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High idle happened to me again today. Different way, different circumstances. I was trying to retune my idle so it wouldn't run as rich as it has been (13.5-13.8). In the past if I got it any leaner it would hunt so I would leave it rich. Today I thought I would try again tweaking cells around the idle so it wouldn't hunt as bad. Well it started to hunt badly again and eventually landed at an idle around 1500 rpms and wouldn't fall back down to 900rpm. I turned the car off and left it alone for a half hour figuring that something was upset and needed to cool off. It didn't help. I also tried uploading an older map, reflashing the ecu and decreasing the base idle settings around that temperature. Even unplugging the tps did nothing to help the idle. Map was still around 47kpa (as it has been before) and tps read 0%.

My miata is a 2000 and all my vvt settings are at 0. VVT1 reads -30 to -50.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:26 PM   #35
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VVT issues... uh oh, not good. Will all the new ECU's be fixed before they are shipped out?
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by PhantomRoadster View Post
High idle happened to me again today. Different way, different circumstances. I was trying to retune my idle so it wouldn't run as rich as it has been (13.5-13.8). In the past if I got it any leaner it would hunt so I would leave it rich. Today I thought I would try again tweaking cells around the idle so it wouldn't hunt as bad. Well it started to hunt badly again and eventually landed at an idle around 1500 rpms and wouldn't fall back down to 900rpm. I turned the car off and left it alone for a half hour figuring that something was upset and needed to cool off. It didn't help. I also tried uploading an older map, reflashing the ecu and decreasing the base idle settings around that temperature. Even unplugging the tps did nothing to help the idle. Map was still around 47kpa (as it has been before) and tps read 0%.

My miata is a 2000 and all my vvt settings are at 0. VVT1 reads -30 to -50.
Did you try closing the throttle body idle screw?
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:34 PM   #37
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VVT issues... uh oh, not good.
Unless -30 to -50 is abnormal for a car with no vvt, I don't think I have vvt issues since my map at idle is not as high as prosperos.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:36 PM   #38
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Did you try closing the throttle body idle screw?
Not yet. I am giving it a longer break. I don't want to close the throttle body idle screw yet if it's going to screw up all of the rest of my settings.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:21 PM   #39
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phantom, what's your minimum control value in the upper left? do the logs show you at that value?
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:27 PM   #40
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What sort of idle kpa should be expected? I have my VVT settings off and see about 43kpa
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