Sudden rough running [resolved] - Page 19 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-20-2009, 12:38 AM   #361
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Looks pretty good so far. You don't seem to have the tip in problem I have. Travis gave me some things to try to fix that. That said, your AFR's are nice and even.

I see you have the wierd water temp spikes that I have. I always thought mine was a sticky thermostat but they are too short to be that. Yours are even shorter than mine and spike to 125*C and then come right back.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:53 AM   #362
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i noticed that too. i still need to calibrate my WT at some point. but instead I'm going on vacation.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:56 AM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
i noticed that too. i still need to calibrate my WT at some point. but instead I'm going on vacation.
So Belgium was work, not a vacation, eh?

I don't know if calibration will catch that. It's too short to be a calibration issue, isn't it?
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:20 PM   #364
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So Stein you are all good? Fantastic!

I have seen those temp spikes also, weird. They happen so fast I think it is just a glitch in the Matrix and not an actual thermal event.

What did Travis suggest for the tip-in tuning? I really need to work on that. I RTFM but still do not get it completely. What settings are you guys using?

The car is running great overall BTW. I am knocking out the little stuff one thing at a time. Right now I am having some kind of a hot-soak post-start idle problem. It will spike, then drop, sometimes spike again, then die. After a minute or so of running it is gone and it idles great again, very stable. I tried increasing the idle MAT compensation. I might need to raise it some more.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:46 PM   #365
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I've got a few links here on acceleration tuning. One thing is that if you have the stock injectors the asynch map provided by Y8's will work. If you have any other size of injectors you have to scale the asynch menu to fit your injectors.


1 take on it
Quote:
Here is a run down of some of the transient throttle settings which may help you to choose suitable values:

-Firstly, we usually don't use the MAP-based transient enrichment settings (ie. leave them at zero).
-Typically, the TPS component varies alot between different cars, a suitable value could be as low as 20 or as high as the maximum. Try 50 to start with (this value gets multiplied by the rate-of-change of TPS).
-The duration tends to be in the range from 200 to 600 (the enrichment will ramp down to zero over this duration).
-The 'cutoff (%)' should usually be somewhere between 10 and 20 (this parameter specifies the %TPS above which there will be no transient throttle action by the ECU). The cutoff above the 'set async' button is for transient throttle enrichment, and the one below the 'set async' button is for the asynchronous accelerator pump. They are often set to the same value.
-The gain should be somewhere between 1 and 30, where higher values require faster throttle movement to achieve the full async squirt duration specified in the 'set asynch' table.
-Finally, for the values in the 'set asynch' table, the value at 0 RPM should be zero, and the remaining values should taper down from about 200 at 500RPM to 0 at about 8000RPM. Note that the values in that table are actually x10 (to improve accuracy), so a value of 200 = 20ms of fuel. The values I just suggested are strictly a guide, they may need to be played with a fair bit.

See how you go with that. The most important settings to play with in the transient throttle are the gain, the TPS component, and the 'set asynch' table.

Cheers
Rob
Another take on it from a tuner

Quote:
There is no formula to it, so you just have to trial and error it.

One thing you will need to make sure of, is that the fuel and map is set up and pretty close to perfect.


1) 0 all values
2) Have the motor at idle and crack open the throttle as fast as you can
3) The motor will hesitate then rev
4) Return the motor to idle
5) At 0rpm, 500rpm and 1000rpm add 5 to the "asynchronous pump
6) Continue to do this until the motor becomes more responcive
7) Note at which value the motor begins to stop hesitating
Cool Continue to increase the values at 0-1500rpm by 5 until the motor begins to hesitate again.
9) Note this value and then pick somewhere in the middle of the earlier value and fine tune around it.
10) use the same process for every 500rpm after 1500 by holding the throttle at say 2000rpm and cracking the throttle.


You will find that past about 3500 you will need very little, if any, throttle pump enrich, but you will have to just find out.

The TPS component, map component and duration settings on the Corrections page set the amount of TPS change needed to trigger the enrich, and the MS is how long it enriches for. You will have to ask andy if thats exactly right though, but thats how I have tuned the adaptronics I have installed and they seem beautiful.
Andy replied to the tuner saying:
Quote:
Dave was telling me that he thought it needed a MAP or TPS cutoff, so that beyond a certain MAP or TPS value, the enrichment was disabled.

From your description of the problem Nathan, it sounds to me as though you have correctly eliminated the stumble with the asynchronous accelerator pump, but that there's a rich or lean bit shortly afterwards. The TPS/MAP components are the amount by which the TPS or MAP rate of change is multiplied by to arrive at the enrichment value. This drops off linearly over the period specified in the duration.

Eg, if you say TPS = 10, and you open the throttle quickly, the ECU will provide a certain level of enrichment (say it's 15% for a given rate of opening the throttle). If you open the throttle twice as quickly, it will be 30%. Say your duration is set to 500 ms. This means you'll get 15% at T=0 (when the throttle is opened), then 7.5% at 250 ms after, tapering down to 0% at 500ms.

So that's how it works.

You can also search around in these links to see if you find anything useful there. Some of the quotes were pulled from them, and all of them dealt with the transient tuning.

Adaptronic :: View topic - MX5 transient throttle
Another MX-5 result!
Throttle pump problem on 4AGE 20V
Acceleration Enrichment
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:34 PM   #366
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my only comment is that i disagree on zeroing the MAP component to a point. on a turbo car, the rate of increase of MAP is VERY fast to 100kPa. And fuel is required based on map, not based on TPS.

Anyway, you may find that you need some map-based enrichment in adition to the TPS.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:11 PM   #367
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Just want to add an update: When I took the car to the track a few weeks ago I ran the car the hardest it has been run to date and got the engine the hottest it has ever been; I had no sign of this particular problem. So it is fixed.

I have not replaced the crank trigger though I have considered it.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:44 PM   #368
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win for everyone.

btw, drove to work today with zero OBDII codes. woot.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:17 PM   #369
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Whats the secret sauce y8s?
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:24 PM   #370
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offloading all the crap to the stock ecu. sharing sensors. sacrificing a fuel map to fool the AFM circuit.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:44 PM   #371
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Oh God! What have I got myself into this time? I just got my LC-1 today and planning to install this weekend with my adaptronic, but it seems like the adaptronic is a lot harder to deal with than what I previously imagined. Well lets see. Too many parameters. I guess the real problem is my lack of experience and knowledge with ECUs...
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:49 PM   #372
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its easier than a bunch of other ecu's. read through the manual and all the threads in here and you'll start to get the hang of it. I know I am, and I'm the most electronically retarded person on the planet.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:57 PM   #373
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Ill keep trying, I need to get it to idle first, hopefully it will with the LC-1 I got today. Of all the parameters in the WARI software, what are the ones you deal the most with? I have a 2000 stock injectors and for the moment its normally aspirated...
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:13 AM   #374
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Dude there are premade maps you could run. You have to set everything up correctly, and from there you're mostly in the afr/spark table screen. You have to calibrate the tps, MAP, set up the wbo2, all that stuff. Seriously, just open up the manual and it takes you through it STEP BY STEP.
If you read the threads on here it will also answer about 90% of all your initial questions. Stein, Zxtex, turboroach, travis, as well as a few other very knowledgeable people have already made a rough path for us all
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:33 PM   #375
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Just to verify because I'm having some weird intermittent issues. Idle will randomly hunt when I come to a stop. It doesn't do it all the time, only does it when it's warm, and sometimes it fixes itself. This is with all the coolant and air temp corrections turned off.

I've been running the new wari and firmware and zx-tex's base map but decided to change a few things like rising to falling edge as mentioned here. Whereas the MX5 file in WARI is rising. As well as increasing dwell to 3.3ms and un-checking "peak-hold".

Are you guys still using falling edge, no peak-hold, and a higher dwell than the 2.5 or w/e it was they had setup. I thought the stock coils were fine with up to 3.5ms but I could be mistaken.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:36 AM   #376
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Subscribed.

Have a great day,
Jared
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:34 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfornachon View Post
Subscribed.

Have a great day,
Jared
subscribed to see what happens 8 months ago?
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:14 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
subscribed to see what happens 8 months ago?
I only did this so that I would not loose this thread. Since I am going to be ordering one very soon I want to be able to get mine running with as little problem as possible.

Have a great day,
Jared
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:07 PM   #379
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Well since the thread has been resurrected here is a tidbit of relevant info. I have replaced the crank sensor already, but finally got around to replacing the cam position sensor. I took a chance and bought one at a local OReilly Auto Parts instead of going to the dealer. It was a little less expensive than Rosenthal at $68, plus I did not have to wait for shipping. BWD brand, OReilly part number CSS836. I do not know why but OReilly has it listed as a crank sensor on their web site.

Turns out it looks to me like it is the OEM piece. Exactly like the OEM piece. Based on a side-by-side comparison:
- It looks like it came from the exact same mold as the OEM sensor.
- It has the same exact part number (a long one) on it as the OEM sensor, same place, same font.
- It has the same Mitsubishi symbol stamped on it as the OEM sensor, same place.

So unless it is counterfeit I am betting it is the same as the OEM sensor. If you need one, and you want to get a new one, just get this one at OReilly and save a little $$.
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:09 PM   #380
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Sorry to rez an old thread back to life but i'm having the same hot start issues. My delay before closed loop is set to 7 secs, will bring that to 0, what are you guys running for the values above that? The low rpm threshhold, low rpm proportinal gain/4, low rpm integral gain/4 and low rpm max int correction%?
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