Thats not excitement. Thats him doing something I have already said vendors should not do. Let people decide and debate amongst themselves which product is superior, when, and why. If he is confident in his product he has nothing to fear.

The best reason to get it, for the PNP, the rest of the features most can do without.

Please please dont go there, take the professional high road.

Calm down Sam. That was just in response to: :giggle: Which I think by all accounts my response was a laugh it off. Its just the Internets.

I was watching the thread for several days without saying anything, but someone who had never used an Adaptronic was just posting mis-information. You basically said they were the same in reliability, features, and performance when its just not the truth. There are big differences, and when do the differences matter? Would you use a link instead of an MS? Since your at a link maybe you would just downgrade to a powercard, or a J&S knock gaurd a twist of the CAS and an RRFPR. There are certainly people in each category that are looking up and down and judging what level of control is appropriate for them. Some may never use it, and some may fully utilize it.

I am all for people debating, but I have to stick up for my own product to some degree. I had the option of retailing any standalone on the market, and I picked this one: it didn't pick me. I believe it represents the finest motorsport engine management hardware for the money, and there are alot of people on this forum that think the same because they are running it.

+1

And........ I live in Europe and did not buy it from Travis but from my local retailer. Its a great product wich can control allmost anything you possibly want to control.

PNP is very nice.
I hooked it up, uploaded the ecufile, after that is was cranking and driving.

I didnt post any mis-information.

I never said anything about their reliability, which would be identical.
Features.I just stipulated that auto-tune might not be as useful as everyone thinks it is.
Performance? Do you mean which makes more power? It shouldnt matter, as long as you got fuel and air it doesnt matter which ECU you use.

Adaptronic is certainly the superior ECU, it would be ignorant for me to argue otherwise, but you also have to weigh the pro's and see if it justifys spending extra. Furthermore, I even said, if its an NB theres no reason not to spend money for it. If its an NA, then you gotta think harder.

I get the joke now, my bad.

I only know what I've seen on the forums, but the MS ECU's do seem to randomly go out, and users continue having problems with them years after the install. 2 years after my install the only thing I've had to worry about was whether or not to turn on my slow converge autotune or just straight closed loop.

In performance I'm talking about more how the two ECU's actually allow the car to perform better. Boost by gear, and traction control are serious advantages. On top of that the auto tune allows you to basically tune your car as if every trip to the dairy mart was a part throttle dyno tuning session without actually having to do ANYTHING at all. It evaluates the AFR and changes the map for you to suit the AFR you dialed in on the table without your laptop ever being hooked up. I'm always kind of excited to see what the ECU has done to my fuel map, and you should see my logs. My AFR's are usaully within .1 of the target. Its really beautiful :giggle:.

I think autotune is the best thing since sliced bread. Get in your car turn the ignition on, and drive your car. Let the ECU do the hardwork while you enjoy the reason you bought a Miata.

I swear that is a feature in Megasquirt, hence the name diyautotune.com of the vendor.

I can see pnp being the big plus. Datalogging on MS is easy anyway. There's no need to hand tune every row, it does the whole table for you. I would be interested in process power differences.

I looked over the whole website for autotune information. :dunno:

As near as I can tell, they are diyautotune because you build the MS yourself (DIY) and tune your auto.

Autotune is in there, just no one uses it because of MLV. In Megatune its in the realtime VE table options. Not the friendliest, but its there. But, to qualify for the spreadsheet, I believe you need to at a minimum, enable / disable with the laptop.

http://www.megamanual.com/megatune.htm#autotune

--Alex

I'm still waiting for someone using an Adaptronic with a turbo setup to use the spark autotune and post up the map it creates.

Its my understanding that autotune with ms is a function of megatune and not part of the ecus firmware itself. Thus requiring you to have your laptop plugged in any time you wish to use it. Adaptronic on the other hand only requires a laptop to enable autotune and can perform the function independent of the laptop from then on.

Sam's jealous, it's about as simple as it gets.

While the MS gets the job done, it's not the most elegant/robust solution. Autotune in MS is a joke, KnocksenseMS is a joke, it's EBC code is a joke, the 215*F temperature cap is a joke, the temperature corrections are a finicky at best, the barometric corrections never worked right for me, etc etc etc.

Half the code is experimental, and B&G simply ignores the fact or any suggestions/requests for fixes.

Sam please wash the sand out of your vagina and actually use valid points and wit.

I don't have one, but I'm more than a little concerned with the number of MS threads that include the words "I reflashed the firmware" or the advice "reflash your firmware." Sam says the reliability is the same. I call bullshit on that one. But I'm just a guy reading threads and taking notes for a future buy into one ECU or the other. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but the number of goofy issues that have to be resolved in MS by posters on this forum has already gotten my attention. New posts arise daily.

New problems daily with Adaptronic? Notsomuch. Granted, there are fewer users of the Adaptronic, but lets call a spade a spade for the sake of intellectual honesty.

Just an observation.

the second I get all my OBDII cycles run and let a shop plug into the port, I'll do it I swear.

Its been forever, what are you waiting for?!?! I will hold your welder hostage until you test!

In fact I might have it tested before you do at this point. I already received my adaptronic last week and am going to put it in very soon. You should give that spare knock sensor to scott so I can pick it up from him when we meet up next week for lunch, I'm picking up a wb at the same time. I've got everything ready to bolt up to the maita. Just waiting on some bends and vbands to make the exhaust and charge pipes.

want to build me a civic exhaust for the knock sensor and extended welder loan? I can provide a template and most of it's straight anyway... :)

We could just do it at your place on a weekend. Once I start this new job (eventually, they are dragging their feet with approvals and clearance) I will have weekends off for good!!!

Alas, this is off topic. ADAPTRONIC FTW and i haven't even installed it yet

To be fair, a lot most MS users don't bother to read the manual. Imagine if there was no do-it-yourself MS, you don't see many MSPNP issues besides the random settings issues. It's easy to setup improperly but most of the kinks had been worked out long ago, I've been rocking my MS for a few years now and I don't really have many complaints, I'd just like better code for closed loop stuff.

Mine has been running for 2 years straight without incident and the last time I had to adjust my fuel table was around May of last year.

Boost by gear is unnecessary unless you are racing on the track. Pretty useless on a street driven car and people have managed to make it thus far without it. Same goes for traction control, if you know how to launch your car and modulate the throttle you dont need traction control.

As for auto tuning, it shouldnt need to constantly tune. You tune once and you are done. If the ECU is constantly re-tuning that means something is wrong with your car that the AFR's are fluctuating. Nice feature to have, but beyond the initial and final tune, its pretty worthless. Its a nice to have, not a need to have.

Its there and it works, not perfectly, but MLV is faster.

---------

Simple fact, if you can justify the additional price for features of the adaptronic then get it. If not, then a MS is more then enough.

Don't be Gary and start defending the vendors.

My points are valid, and as you can see I can argue reasons for and against it. I even said I would buy it if I could justify it. If you had bothered to read carefully you would have seen that.