AEM EMS & sequential COP issue - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-11-2008, 11:59 PM   #1
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Default AEM EMS & sequential COP issue

I was hoping someone could help me with my toyota COP setup on my '92 w/the AEM EMS. I am attempting to run the COP's in sequential. I loaded the Toyota matrix COP wizard defaults for dwell. I turned on coil outputs 3 & 4, turned off outputs 6 & 7, set the ignition teeth to 1, 2, 0, 3 for coils 1, 2, 3, 4 repectively, and set coil tooth 6 & 7 to zero. My problem is this...

I cannot get coil outputs 3 & 4 to fire any cylinders. The car basically runs on whatever cylinders I attach coils 1 & 2 onto (after setting the proper tooth configuration). I can set coil 1 & 2 tooth to 0 & 3, and run the rear two cylinders off coil 1 & 2 output. On the other hand, if I set coil 3 & 4 output to tooth 1 & 2 respectively, it won't fire even though those same tooth settings work for coil outputs 1 & 2 to run cyl. 1 & 2. I checked the wiring; I have connectivity between all 4 COP terminals' power, ground, and tach. Each trigger terminal is good to the respective terminal on the AEM EMS connectors. I'm using pin 3A & 3B for coil 3 & 4 output, per the diagram I got with the EMS. I have yet to switch the physical terminals within the EMS connector.

What could I be missing? Is there anything else I'm supposed to change when going to sequential coils?

I am running the 10000uf capacitor between the power and ground too.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Tim
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:53 AM   #2
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I figured it out. At some point I switched the default miata settings to have coil 2 run cyls 1&4, coil 1 cyls 2&3. I assumed the opposite and based my tooth counts on that. Setting the ignition tooth counts to 2,1,3,0 makes it purr. Coincidentially this is the same tooth count as the fuel injectors even though I would think they'd be 180deg opposite (i.e. 0,3,1,2).

I set the coil dwell to what I think would replicate the dwell curve JasonC SBB posted instead of running the default AEM toyota wizard settings.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:06 AM   #3
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Woot! Congrats. Now get out there and retune. No excuses on Saturday.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:24 PM   #4
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Congrats. For posterity's sake, post a screen shot with the same layout I did here, showing coil and injector sequencing. This way too I can check if you have any subtle errors e.g. retarding cylinder #1 will retard cyl #4 instead.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t27028/#post318707
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul View Post
Woot! Congrats. Now get out there and retune. No excuses on Saturday.
I still have to make rigid spacers/standoffs for the COP bolts. Rubber fuel line isn't gonna work. Figures that it's supposed to rain tonight into the weekend. I am also going to tighten the preload on the wastegates to try to get spool back. If necessary, I'll just tune boost on the dyno. Booo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Congrats. For posterity's sake, post a screen shot with the same layout I did here, showing coil and injector sequencing. This way too I can check if you have any subtle errors e.g. retarding cylinder #1 will retard cyl #4 instead.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t27028/#post318707
Thanks, and I will do the screen shot when I get back home tonight. I definitely want you to review the settings. I still don't know why half the cylinders ran yesterday when technically all were firing at overlap TDC. Ehh whatever.
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
For posterity's sake, post a screen shot with the same layout I did here, showing coil and injector sequencing. This way too I can check if you have any subtle errors e.g. retarding cylinder #1 will retard cyl #4 instead.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t27028/#post318707

Screenshot attached.
Attached Thumbnails
AEM EMS & sequential COP issue-aem-screenshot-cop-sequential.jpg  
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:12 PM   #7
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I've just fitted my 1zz-fe COPs to my 1.8 mk1 1997 Eunos and wired them sequentially but only 1 & 2 fire, 3 & 4 won't fire. Like you I tested all wiring and get voltages wire continuitys ok etc. I'm using a Link LEM G3 Ecu and the triggering's just MX5/EUNOS/MIATA picked from a drop down list. Am I likely to be suffering this problem for the same reason you did? I know very little when it comes to setup....

Any advice appreciated

Steve
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:11 PM   #8
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Since Tim already found the issue he needed to fix. My short block is already assembled and the engine is going to go in the car either tomorrow or Tuesday.

I want to run both the COPs and injectors in sequence so I have a couple of dumb questions:

1) With regards to COP sequencing; do I need the capacitor Tim mentioned?

2) About the injectors; where can I find additional info on how to?

Thanks,

Rafa
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:55 AM   #9
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I asked two mappers (not mx5/eunos/miata specialists) I know and both thought it a sync problem, as in i'm only using the stock mk1 CAS for triggering. They said this was insufficient for sequential and I need to get a trigger wheel on the crank. I assume the guys who have gone sequential are either mk2's or have fitted a trigger wheel as part of their ECU install?
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebowen View Post
I asked two mappers (not mx5/eunos/miata specialists) I know and both thought it a sync problem, as in i'm only using the stock mk1 CAS for triggering. They said this was insufficient for sequential and I need to get a trigger wheel on the crank. I assume the guys who have gone sequential are either mk2's or have fitted a trigger wheel as part of their ECU install?
If that's the case, I won't do it.

BTW, thanks for that info.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
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If that's the case, I won't do it.

BTW, thanks for that info.

Not so sure it is anymore, spoke to LINK technical help and they say it should be as simple as it looks, wire them sequential i.e. independant triggers, enable direct igntion on the ECU and it should work.

They said it looks like damaged ignition drivers on my ECU or a lack of connection but i've tested COP connector to ECU connector with multimeter and it says alls good.
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
If that's the case, I won't do it.

BTW, thanks for that info.
AEM EMS can do sequential if you have a cam sync signal and either NA or NB cam sensor provide that. You can do whatever combinations of sensors and wheels you want and sequential is always possible if you have a reference point in the engine cycle.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_man View Post
AEM EMS can do sequential if you have a cam sync signal and either NA or NB cam sensor provide that. You can do whatever combinations of sensors and wheels you want and sequential is always possible if you have a reference point in the engine cycle.
Cool; thanks man!
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:53 AM   #14
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Well I can't get the COPS to run ok, I gave up trying to get sequential to work so wired wasted spark, ran like a bag of spanners, all plugs wet on removal, ignition test and 1&4 fire fine, 2&3 fire fine. Must be a sync problem some where, just wish I could find the problem.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebowen View Post
Well I can't get the COPS to run ok, I gave up trying to get sequential to work so wired wasted spark, ran like a bag of spanners, all plugs wet on removal, ignition test and 1&4 fire fine, 2&3 fire fine. Must be a sync problem some where, just wish I could find the problem.
Are you sure they are correctly wired? That's one issue I didn't face when I installed my COPs.

How about your dwell settings?
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:17 PM   #16
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I set dwell to 2.5ms as thats what the guys on the mk3 MR2 turbo conversion boards said is ideal, a bit higher than the 2.1ms suggested on here.

As long as 1 & 4 are suppose to fire at the same time wasted spark and 2 & 3 then they are wired correctly, plugs out of engine, in the cops the ignition test function they spark all fine. I assumed they should spark at the same time as the OEM pack? Its not just a case of my ignition map now being to far out I need to totally re-tune?
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebowen View Post
I set dwell to 2.5ms as thats what the guys on the mk3 MR2 turbo conversion boards said is ideal, a bit higher than the 2.1ms suggested on here.

As long as 1 & 4 are suppose to fire at the same time wasted spark and 2 & 3 then they are wired correctly, plugs out of engine, in the cops the ignition test function they spark all fine. I assumed they should spark at the same time as the OEM pack? Its not just a case of my ignition map now being to far out I need to totally re-tune?
I see no problems with your dwell settings.

You don't need to retune. I didn't. There must be some wire incorrectly placed.

I think we'll have to wait for the gurus to show up and answer your question.

Sorry Steve.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:52 PM   #18
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Had a bit of a break through. I knew they all sparked ok from having them out of the engine with plugs in on ECU spark test. Then I got to thinking pulling the plugs out the boots was far harder than pulling them out when in the engine, measured up and they don't reach to the extent they should, so removed the rubber seal, filled the lumps off the COP and put flats on the sides. They now push on much better and the car runs better, I've also decided to pull the loom out and re-wire so fingers crossed.
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:02 PM   #19
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Will the AEM EMS settings shown above work on a 94 1.8? I've almost got my COP setup complete. All I need to do is run the wires to the EMS and solder a few more connections.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:46 PM   #20
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Turbotim, would you be so kind as to advise me on the following:
how to wire the tach signal with toyota COP's when running sequential(1 @ a time)
what diodes/reisistors/compacitors extra are needed & where.

thanks in advance
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