Is AEM Infinity a piece of junk? Lets find out together!
 

Starting this thread because I think it would be useful to have all the information in one thread, instead of my build thread.

Yesterday I purchased an AEM Infinity 30-7110, which is Infinity 708, but plug and play for 03-06 350z. It was much cheaper than a regular Infinity 708 and my hope is that they are exactly the same minus the base map.

There are so many
AEM sells 5 different versions

• Infinity 506 (aka Infinity 6) part # 30-7106
• Infinity 508 (aka Infinity 8h) part # 30-7108
• Infinity 708 (aka Infinity 8) part # 30-7101
• Infinity 710 (aka Infinity 10) part # 30-7100
• Infinity 712 (aka Infinity 12) part # 30-7111

Then they also sell several Application-specific versions

• Infinity 708 for VQ35 part # 30‐7110
• Infinity 710 for VQ35 part # 30‐7107
• Infinity 708 for Porsche/BMW/zee Germans part # 30‐7109
• Infinity 710 for Porsche/BMW/zee Germans part # 30‐7105

The one I bought is an application-specific ecu so I'll find out if it is same as a normal 708

See more: http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/...tion_Guide.pdf

The reality rumor is that there are really only TWO different ECUs: 5 series and 7 series, with different features simply locked out via firmware.
http://i21.twenga.com/cars-motorcycl...158787248f.jpg
vs

http://www.aemelectronics.com/sites/...00x250-2_0.jpg


Is it better than a Megasquirt?
Stay tuned!
The general consensus is that the previous AEM ecus were crap. Since the Infinity hardware and software is not actually made by AEM, there's hope. The AEM documentation, which they wrote themselves, is rather awful and is full of spelling mistakes.

So, who REALLY made it?
The Infinity series ECUs were designed by Enginelab - https://enginelab.net - a small company out of Boulder, Colorado. AEM licenses them and sells them as their own. EngineLab website contains a lot of documentation, arguably better than that of AEM - see https://enginelab.net/documentation/

The AEM software is also based on EngineLab EL Console, which is available for free from https://enginelab.net/downloads (after you register)

What are those connectors?
The connectors are Molex MX123 series. These connectors are used on GM ECUs so there are plenty of places to buy them.
AEM also sells pin kits, but they are overpriced. I bought mine from Home - Current Performance WiringCurrent Performance Wiring - see blue and gray
Another place is from EngineLab - which does not require a crimper and includes a whooping 600 ft of wire - https://enginelab.net/product/el010-wk/

The blue connector for Infinity 5 is different from the blue connector on Infinity 7. I believe its an 80 pin connector

Finally, the connectors are well documented - https://enginelab.net/documentation/...tor_1_Pin_List

In for junk.

Had a cousin run an Infinity EMS on his Celica GTS and he enjoyed it. Back then though the alternative was a Greddy eManage :vash2:

I tuned a K24-powered S2000 on an Infinity box and was pretty impressed. The closed-loop AFR control is going to blow your mind - you almost don't have to tune the fuel map, the corrections are that fast and that good. I had every intention of doing a PnP harness for 99-00/01-05 Miatas until AEM refused to give me exclusivity on the trigger pattern I was going to essentially develop for them to get the car to run on stock triggers.

Bad move on their part. Realistically how many units do you think you would have moved a year?

More findings

AEM "Infinity Tuner" is nothing more than an older version of EL Console. My guess is that the AEM development follows EL Console releases and lags behind by a release.
Infnity Tuner: 96.8492
EL Console: 97.8431

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d0e0984a2d.png

AEM include several plugins for some things. These plugins, labeled Wizards in Infinity Tuner, is how you change the regular settings

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d13dc75c36.png

EL Console however exposes the "Channels" - which is the bread and butter of Inifinity/EngineLabs ECU processing. InfinityTuner hides the channels and does everything through "wizards".

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c635cec82a.png

I suspect the wizards can be imported into EL Console since they are just plugins. I looked, and the wizards are written in C#. This means they can be easily reverse engineered. I've done a lot of C# so this is familiar territory for me.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0989fec9e3.png

So is there a reason you can't just buy direct from engine labs?

From what I can see, it is a simple matter of writing a wizard for Miata and then publishing the model and layout. The wizards are written in C# and the code is a bajillion times more readable than megasquirt code.

Also AEM uses SQLite for storing configuration settings for the wizards. It potentially could be super-easy to add Miata

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6b14c99fea.png

Its $3000 from EngineLab
They did an early adopter sale in March for $1500 but I missed it
I paid $1645 for mine and hopefully it is same thing (waiting on shipping)

man oh man, this thing better be seriously impressive to pay that much and still have to adapt it to a miata

IMO the only way it makes sense over an MS3 Basic is if you take advantage of all of the advanced features (TC and DBW, specifically).

Both features that are being actively developed in the megasquirt codebase.

I've watched engines kill themselves over a bug in the Infinity, which to my knowledge, is still unresolved. There's another bug that causes the ECU to lockup, and because the ECU also has battery power on it, you need to disconnect the battery for it to recover. A significant feature of the ECU only works if you connect it to a hardcoded input. Another significant feature (much needed in the drag racing scene) would randomly completely shutdown one or two cylinders on a 5+ cylinder engine, and had gone unresolved for 4 years.

Also, the AEM support stuff are pretty pathetic. I was once called in to solve a non-starting car (it was on a freshly installed AEM EMS-4). The car would not get initial sync on a 60-2 trigger wheel. It would calculate RPM every now and then but it would not get a constant sync. For giggles, I brought a Universal MS3 in, connected power, ground and signal. It would also not sync. I watched the composite log, and measure 59 teeth instead of 58. I counted at least two more times, 59 every time. So I entered 60-1 in the TS settings, and sure enough, it synced perfectly. The AEM tuner emailed AEM, and - you better believe this - this is their answer (to the best of my memory as it was couple of years ago):

This can't be a 60-1 wheel because we have never seen one before. There is probably some other error, and the MS ECU is only able to sync up with a 60-1 setting because there are too many teeth and the MS has a slow processor, so entering more teeth somehow compensates for that.

No solution was given or any idea as to why the EMS-4 is not syncing. The customer ended up removing a tooth as the EMS-4 doesn't have configurable generic missing tooth wheel settings.

It actually does, but AEM will never tell you how to find the settings. I had to build a custom tab based on AEMpro settings to set up the 12+1 wheels we used with EMS-4s.

You guys have at least 3 months to talk shit about AEM because that's at least how long it'll take for my car to run. So pace yourselves!

There is no such thing as a hardcoded input if you are using EL Console. The AEM software simply hides the channels interface. I can see there being tons of bugs but unlike most people who want a plug and play solution, I know what I'm doing.

This is precisely why I'm excited about this thread. Because of all the people to fiddle with wiring and programming mumbo jumbo, you're qualified.

Also if this setup turns out to suck like we suspect, we will have confirmation ;)

I am also interested in what you find out.
I don't know if Engine Lab did this for this guy, but the conversation is about a year old.
gemellocattivo.com ? View topic - EngineLab/AEM ECU
A couple of quotes bellow:

So the whole AEM infinity line is of EngineLab design and based on the engineLab code system. If you buy the AEM hardware and ask Jim nicely he'll set you up with access to the engine lab system at no charge and you can reprogram the ECU to do whatever you please. He told me all the 2 connector units are the same and have 12 fuel and 12 spark drivers, I'd just need to buy one and start programming it....very very tempting http://forum.gemellocattivo.com/imag...on_e_smile.gif


What I was told the gen 1&2 are completely different from the infinity. The AEM interface on the infinity is very clunky and the control logic appears state of the art circa 1995 so probably very similar to what you are familiar with.

What the EngineLab interface does is basically wipe out everything AEM other than the name on the case and return it to EngineLab. In that state the underlying machine code is in place to read a crank and control injector, coil, and other drivers but there is no control logic at all, I would need to create all of that.......but as luck would have it I've spent a great deal of time over the past 4 years doing just that for my o5e ECU project but kept getting stuck with low level machine code issue....which are all solved int eh EngineLab setup.

Ok we have our first fail, or maybe a win depending on the outcome

Which wideband O2 sensor does the Infinity ECU support?

• According to AEM, only Bosch 4.2 is supported
• According to EngineLab, the EL129 ECU was designed with Bosch 4.9 in mind

So which one is it? Could it be both? The specs say that a Bosch CJ125 chip is used, which supports both 4.2 and 4.9. However, it looks like it matters what resistors are used. So did AEM change the resistors to use a shittier 4.2 sensor from the original 4.9 implementation? We'll find out eventually!

Edit: read more about the CJ125 chip and I'm thinking that the ecu may support both! Bosch LT4 is Bosch's own motorsports o2 controller, which is compatible with both 4.2 and 4.9 sensors, uses the CJ125 chip. Fingers crossed that the Infinity is the same way. This may be a win!

Conclusion: AEM needs to get their shit together

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8e89a3ee16.png

EngineLab:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...274a4af9e3.png


CJ125 proposed circuit
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0344a7753e.png

Yep, thanks to that guy, all the EngineLab software is now public. AFAIK he is also working for EngineLab in writing documentation

An update!
I finally got the ECU. I made a small harness to connect the ECU to a 12V computer power supply so I can play with it outside of the garage.

I was able to flash AEM "generic" firmware on it, so that confirms that all the 7 series ECUs are basically the same, even if it is listed as application specific. I will of course confirm with the car running, but its a good sign.


Also was thinking about Infinity vs Megasquirt and one thing came to mind. With Infinity, you have full control over the fuel injection logic (using EngineLab firmware). So, you can use any sensors in the fuel calculations. That means you can have

1. 2D table for injector deadtime vs voltage vs pressure (using battery voltage and pressure sensor as inputs)
2. Linear table for injector flow vs fuel pressure (using fuel pressure sensor)
3. Linear table for fuel density & fuel evaporation rate vs fuel temperature (using a fuel temperature from E85 sensor as input)

All this translates into more precise fuel control, and more things to play with.

Megasquirt only has basic voltage correction, and whatever else the dev team comes up with. Infinity with EngineLab firmware you can do whatever you want. Of course, if you just want plug & play its not for you.

clearly no UAT went into developing that application.

Yeah, while pretty cool for sure, the stuff you're talking about would only really be relevant for a proper race team/racer, or someone super nerdy doing some really out of the box things......like you :)

MS could probably support fuel pressure failsafe and whatnot

If you've never had the pleasure of AEMPro, or Hydra 2.5/2.6, or god forbid WARI, then sure, but they make ELConsole/InfinityTuner look downright usable :)

I still shudder when I remember WARI :laugh:

I bet that a lot of OEMs do it. It is true that most people want plug and play. But I bet if Miata + Infinity was well documented, more people would do it.

One thing I actually need to get done is to get the VVT trigger pattern added. Currently one of the limitations of Infinity is that it offers little configuration for trigger patterns. And its a bit retarded.
https://enginelab.net/documentation/...escription_EAL
https://enginelab.net/help/img/confi...escription.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...86bc59f4f5.png

We're all looking at you. Popcorn in hand and everything

You forget that we are all really cheap. $3k ecu's probably are not what most of us want. Most of us bitch about $1k ecu's.

1k? some of the jokers here can't handle $500 and spend $350 on AIDz

MS is like that. Thats now my only complaint of the squirt now that you can buy the pro with real connectors on it. That you cant just define the fucking triggers like an adult, you need daddy DIYat to hold your hand.

On the contrary, if you really are an adult, with the MS you can code your own engine decoder because you have the source, like I have done for many different engines.

I've played in Hyrda. My favorite part was scrolling to tune the fuel map. runner up was having to turn off the car to load changes to a tune.

Everything I'm doing should apply for the Infinity 5 series which are ~$1200-1400 depending on where you are buying it from.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...baaeeba643.png



I was going to get the 5 series but the 7 series was on sale, so.....

I looked at the MS code, it's complete spaghetti code. Of course you can change it, but I'd rather not deal with it.

:dealwithit:

Finally got access to engine lab firmware.
Here it is showing all 12 injector outputs.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b8b5445508.png

I've been down this path with EL/AEM stuff before. EL is a blank slate. When you buy their ECU, you get a box and nothing else. And actually, all the ECU's are manufactured by AEM - EL doesn't manufacture their hardware. They just resell what AEM makes.

The firmware doesn't do anything - it's the models that actually make it function like an engine management system or whatever else you want to develop it as. It's great that you've unlocked "the secret" that all the boxes are the same but unless you develop your own models, you can't make use of any extra I/O. So you're going to lose all the functionality of the Infinity system and everything that makes it awesome. You better be pretty bad ass at system controls development if you think you're going to make your own controls models.

AEM has done a pretty good job of locking things down. Like you've found, their wizard is just an in-between for the user and things working in the background. The wizard is actually AEM-specific and it's not a function of EL but it's what streamlines setting up and running the models. If you create new models, you won't be able to use the AEM wizard but if you're able to make your own models, I guess you can probably also make your own wizard but that's a lot of work. If you ask me, you've delving into something that 98% of average EMS users don't and won't care about. The 2% of guys like us that can and do make their own controls stuff might be interested in this, but a $3000 development box is a tough pill to swallow for cheap ass Miata guys. What is it that you think you're gaining doing all this? The EL documentation is to support model development and has nothing to do with actually running an engine. AEM built all the models that actually make the EL system an engine management system and their documentation is written so that end users can use it as an EMS, not develop models. AEM doesn't sell a dev box - that's EL business. So you're basically taking all the engineering work that AEM put into the system and throwing it out the window. Sounds like a great place to start.

To be honest, you're not really uncovering anything new. The EL site has been up forever and so has their documentation. All anyone has had to do is find it and read it.

What bug has been killing engines? I think they had some problems with power sequencing in some cases a while back but I use Infinity a lot and haven't had any issues at all. I'm also interested in this other unresolved bug that shuts down cylinders on engines with 5 or more cylinders. My 1000+hp 2JZ doesn't have that problem.

I agree with AEM - there's no such thing as a 60-1 wheel. You had a 60-2 wheel but you had the polarity of the crank sensor wrong so it wasn't detecting the missing teeth correctly which isn't an uncommon problem. So you got lucky and were able to make a BS "60-1" trigger in MS. If you had the sensor polarity right, it would have worked fine. Instead, you had to basically lie and tell the MS it was a 60-1 in order to get your incorrectly setup 60-2 to work. How is that AEM's fault?

You raise some good points so I will answer them

I think that the hardware is the best of any other ECU, but I am not happy with AEM approach of locking the model down, hardcoding inputs/outputs, restricting to Bosch 4.2 LSU and generally sandbagging the whole thing. I see a lot of potential in the hardware and I want to take advantage of it.

Everything you said is correct. I am starting from scratch. I do have to write a complete model from nothing. Luckly I am fairly competent with software (it's my profession) and I am good at figuring out things. I think people will follow down this path once I lay the ground work. The model will be difficult but it is possible to get... inspiration from the AEM models. I don't want to copy too many things because it is their property after all. Worst case scenario I will fail at making my own model and will run AEM models/firmware.

The $3000 number that is thrown around is moot. The hardware is same, so its ~2300 for Infinty 7 or ~1250 for Infinity 5. The approach I'm taking should be applicable to both. At 1250 Infinity 5 is pretty competitive, especially if you think about what's possible.

Why I chose this route

• I love the hardware, but not the software
• I have a lot of ideas for things I want to do. Like DBW based traction control. PWM fuel pump control. Knock detection that works better than Megasquirt. Maybe something with turbo speed and VVT.
• I like to play with new things. This car has long passed any logic and reason and is now firmly in the "look what I can do" realm.

What I want to accomplish

• Pave the way for AEM/EngineLab on Miata platform
• Write some helpful tools for EL Console
• Learn how the EFI, O2 sensor, knock sensing, DBW and traction control actually work

Subbed for info on something I'll never do but want to read about anyway.

All very sensible points and I understand the desire to poke and prod and play around with things. One thing I want to point out is that the AEM models already do DBW based TC, PWM fuel pump control, knock control, VVT and turbo speed. So not only is the Infinity a good value for what you can potentially develop on your own but it's an awesome value in that it already does so much. There's absolutely no reason why you can't already put an Infinity on a Miata - you just need to use a timing pattern that's already supported. You won't be able to add in timing pattern support on your own - only EL can do that and creating new timing pattern support is NOT a trivial task. I've worked with EL on timing pattern stuff before and it can take numerous iterations before it finally works right. Error response is almost a bigger and more important function that getting the ECU to recognize a particular pattern to facilitate sync. But if you do want to support the factory Miata trigger, you could probably get EL to work with you on getting it added. But like I said - they don't just add it and you're good to go. It takes some work. I'm aware of a couple other guys/shops submitting timing pattern stuff to EL so it's totally doable.

Anyways, have fun and good luck. I think you could probably improve the title of your thread. You know it's not junk.

No, I'm fully confident that AEM has managed to screw something up that we take for granted that any ecu should be able to do. They manage to do that with all their products.

Oh you're still mad at your EMS-4. I get it. Yeah, those can be tough to use sometimes. Adding in a resistor is asking a lot.

Expecting an ecu made after 2001 to support speed density was apparently my mistake.

I basically couldn't give my EMS 4 that i fucked up buying away on any miata forum. That shows you something. I wanted to punt the fukker but I had to recover some dough. People on m.net wouldn't even buy it. But I think savingaids or someone was all about it at the time. That shows the power of marketing.

Bump for updates on this? Doesn't look like there's been anything posted in this or your other build thread. I'm currently getting everything together to turbo my beater 10AE, and I'm going to be using an Infinity - I've used the AEM on two of the cars that we've raced at Pikes Peak and Global Time Attack without any major issues, and I've used them on a handful of other builds; although those were engines that I was able to get base maps for, so I didn't have to go through any of the additional headache of setting up the crank trigger patterns, for instance - which may present a bit of a headache on a 99, I think. I'm also going to try and set up communication with the wheel speed sensors, which from quick internet research it looks like the Miata uses VR WSS's and those should integrate properly with the AEM...saw that you were looking for ABS stuff, so I assume that you're working on something very similar if not the same thing.


I'm interested to see what further you've come up with since December.

Any updates?

Update: Aquired a baby
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ab0664a945.jpg

is baby fully tuned or just base map for now :D

Congrats:bigtu:

Interesting read. In for updates.

Congrats on the kiddo as well. I totally understand the hiatus.

fully tuned haha
can't even get the idle steady :D

LMK before you have to sell your sputnik so I can get dibs -- DINK for life over here.

You wouldn't buy it anyways.

probably not. but id like the option.

Like a friend once said, - don't be afraid of large expenses, worry about small incomes.

Bump

Last I checked. He had the baby. Then car is hiding in the corner of his garage. I don't think he has touched the car in years now.

Part out?

I don't think they let you do that with babies anymore