Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1013345)
One other key point, my car has a front air dam that is angled up for kerbs/clearance etc. Somewhere (this thread?) I asked if you could run a splitter even if the angle was not flat....it would appear Mclaren think you can....
I.e. it's most probably not just a flat plane with that angle. |
It might just be the angle that picture is taken from making it look like the splitter isn't horizontal to the ground.
As for those canards on the mclaren, it looks like those are partially designed to serve as tire spats, which might account for the steep angle if they wanted to cover the front area of the tire. -Ryan |
4 Attachment(s)
No, they don't appear to be there to cover the tire, as the other elements of the nose are completely covering the tire.
I'm going to make a WAG here and say there's no way we can really determine what the specific function of these canards on this car is without CFD results. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1369075792 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1369075717 |
Perhaps they are multi element to further help the formation of vortices down the side of the car (remember, f1 uses slots as vortex generators on their underbodies).
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Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1013345)
I thought canards are to disrupt airflow down the side of the car (by reducing airflow entering underneath from the side) that being the case maybe the small gaps help create more/multiple disruptive vortice's than just the single trailing edge of a one piece?
Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1013345)
Multi plane wing is for aerodynamic efficiency I wouldn't have thought an efficient down force generator there is the idea...unless it / canards do both?
Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1013345)
One other key point, my car has a front air dam that is angled up for kerbs/clearance etc. Somewhere (this thread?) I asked if you could run a splitter even if the angle was not flat....it would appear Mclaren think you can....
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Originally Posted by motormechanic
(Post 1013763)
Perhaps they are multi element to further help the formation of vortices down the side of the car (remember, f1 uses slots as vortex generators on their underbodies).
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Originally Posted by plucas
(Post 1013792)
Multiple element wings are very inefficient. They are for max downforce
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You do not want to run the splitter at an angle, especially up unless you want to create lift Also due to the fact that the McLaren photos shown above has the front edge of the splitter on an angle/raised higher at the front. I would say by about 2 cm/1 inch..... You see the edge of it, underneath it would most probably have diffusors etc. I.e. it's most probably not just a flat plane with that angle. |
2 Attachment(s)
I believe the photo is deceiving. We don't have a good horizontal reference. The suspension is at full droop. I can't find a good side shot of the GT3 on the ground. But the splitter looks to be horizontal to me.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1369116523 |
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Fine i'll play, Cover them in front, open them in back.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1369142051 |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1013814)
I'm not sure what you mean. I went with a multi element wing because the theoretical single element wing to make the amount of downforce mine theoretically makes would be bigger than the rules allow and have 4 times as much drag.
Multiple element wings have a greater induced drag than a single element wings. Multiple elements are used when single elements do not make the downforce required. |
I'll have to try and find the study. My main computer just got a massive upgrade (yay 4 times as much ram and better processor) and HD wipe (now I have room for a linux partition for open FOAM) so my CFD studies are hiding somewhere on my backups. The issue was trying to hit my 450 lbs @ 60mph goal required a pretty stupid, massive, huge AOA, tons of camber single element, where as the dual element was able to straight up more efficiently use the air, less flow separation and that jazz.
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Leafy perhaps try building a sucker miata?
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1013977)
I'll have to try and find the study. My main computer just got a massive upgrade (yay 4 times as much ram and better processor) and HD wipe (now I have room for a linux partition for open FOAM) so my CFD studies are hiding somewhere on my backups. The issue was trying to hit my 450 lbs @ 60mph goal required a pretty stupid, massive, huge AOA, tons of camber single element, where as the dual element was able to straight up more efficiently use the air, less flow separation and that jazz.
Also what turbulence model and wall functions are you using in OpenFoam? Depending on that, the numbers can be wrong. |
Originally Posted by plucas
(Post 1014008)
But that is comparing apples and oranges. You are comparing the efficiency of a stalled single element to a non-stalled multi-element wing. When the wing stalls, the drag shoots up and lift/downforce decreases. So of course it will be more efficient. You went multi-element wing since you needed more downforce which is what I said earlier ;)
Also what turbulence model and wall functions are you using in OpenFoam? Depending on that, the numbers can be wrong. |
Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi
(Post 1013827)
I dont want to be argumentative because I cetainly have no experience to back this up but...this statement seems very hard to comprehend. I would think many performance road cars have up angled splitters in order to retain some form of obstruction clearance (minimal though that may be...)
Also due to the fact that the McLaren photos shown above has the front edge of the splitter on an angle/raised higher at the front. I would say by about 2 cm/1 inch..... - Reading Niklasfalk's comment, quite possible but that would then mean you can run an angled spitter so long as you have some form of diffuser underneath....however it does appear to be flat.
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1014012)
Used COSMOS for that stuff. Haven't had a computer besides my netbook with linux so I haven't used open FOAM yet. I did have some problems getting COSMOS to react as expected at first until I realized I had my goals set wrong. I'm also not going to claim my wing makes 450 lbs @ 60mph, the model says it does but it was analyzed off the car, and I dont really trust COSMOS to be that accurate. It certainly does make some downforce in real life, but its unmeasured.
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Originally Posted by motormechanic
(Post 1013763)
Perhaps they are multi element to further help the formation of vortices down the side of the car (remember, f1 uses slots as vortex generators on their underbodies).
I'm not a fan of the aesthetics of the dive planes mounted on top of the vertical elements...too much going on. |
Having the splitter turning up at the leading edge is good if you have a flat floor and rear diffuser. You need to feed the air to the underbody. If no flat floor. I would block as much air going under as possible.
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A raised center section for the splitter would be better than the leading edge just rounding upwards I would think.
I am with plucas, I think that at least in 99.9% of applications, unless there's some other strange elements going on that make some sort of use of it, you don't want a splitter angled up in front. Especially since the splitter's purpose is to provide downforce, which is does well when horizontal, and even better when angled very slightly down in the front (splitter bottom surface can act as a diffuser) -Ryan |
Wouldn't a raised leading edge (to a degree) enhance the venturi shape (which is the basis of how downforce is made through the ground effect) more than it creates lift?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...turifixed2.PNG |
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