BEGi Bell Engineering Group's terrible intake manifold
 

Dear Miata owners,

I am really upset with the product BEGi sent me recently after 2 and a half months wait. I ordered an intake for my 1999 Miata. Part of the instructions on their website is to specify which throttle body you intend use so that the flange can be fitted to its specs. The Skunk2 64mm Throttle Body is sold by their business yet the flange they had made was no where near usable for it. There is no metal support on the flange to cover the idle screw passageway. So the idle screw wouldn't be adjustable and suck all the air it wanted. See photos FYI, a whole batch of flanges were made wrong.

I did a test fit of the manifold to see IF there were any othe issues. When there is one, there are bound to be many more. And behold, the angle of the flange is off and cockeyed to about negative 30 degrees. The plenum is welded crooked. The front of the plenum where the TB mounts is sits so low compared to the back. And because of the shady craftmanship/engineering, there is no room for the IAC, idle air control valve!! Really? Bell Engineering? 750 bucks for this!! See photos

What you seen on their website is not what you get. The runners on the actual intake that you will get are way shorter. Without telling you this, I believed they changed the length of the runners so the intake wouldn't interfere with the fuel tubing located near by. There is no visible transition of the runner design like you see in their website photos. The runners are trumpet/horns squeezed into ovals. This new design most likely lead to the cockeyed plenum. There were other small discrepancies that I won't mention because I have a dremel and can fix them. Me and Mr Dremel going to work overtime on this bee-atch!!

Customer service is lacking. They will only respond when something is really wrong on their end. Keeping you informed isn't part of their business model. I would not employ their services until the business and products reach a respectable point in quality. That is not the case presently.

UPDATE: Got an email from BEGi. They informed me, "I can certainly understand your frustration. No, the flange should not have been angled. I will mention it to Corky. And, it would get fixed with the new flange being welded on. For what it is worth, he has never made one like this before. These intake manifolds are not designed to be used with an IAC, and there are no provisions to mount one, nor do we advertise that it will be there. It can be done, but again, we do not make provisions for that with this Intake Manifold. Let me know when you get the flange and plan to get it fixed. We will pay a reasonable amount to fix it."
How do you fix a drooping plenum, is but to start over from scratch. And the throttle body has the provisions for a IAC which has nothing to do with a BEGi intake manifold!

Moving this to vendor review section

Janky as fuck

Certainly glad to see such a detailed description of this manifold and company making it. This is certainly enough for me to stear clear of this manifold and source a custom unit elsewhere

Such a shame to see such little effort has gone into this manifold.

This thread specifically is the reason I will not be buying this manifold anymore.

Sounds like a handmade manifold made to a plan not a spec. Thats pretty normal as far as small production numbers handmade parts go.

Dann

Off topic but OP, are you using silicone or thread paste on AN fittings?

Janky as fuck

Matt, Again my apologies. I have apologized several times, I am not sure how many more times you need me to?

Your Problems with the Intake Manifold:
1. Flange - Completely my mistake. I had them laser cut, and told them to make it square like the 70mm flange. We are fixing it now and sending you off the parts to fix it, as you elected to have it fixed locally and we would pay a reasonable amount for the repair. Again, I apologize for the mistake.
2. Throttle Body Flange is angle incorrectly - Yes, upon reflect Corky realizes he did this wrong. He welded it about 10* off of where it should be. Thankfully, this will be fixed when you replace it with the correct flange we will send to you. This is the first time he has ever done this to my knowledge.
3. IAC - At no point have we ever made provisions for an IAC valve with the Manifold. I have asked and asked, but I am always told they will not integrate it. There is a way to integrate one, and we have done it. However, It is only fair to criticize us for this if we advertised that it came with accommodations for the IAC. We never advertise that, therefore this criticism is unfounded.
4. The Short Intake Runners - Yes, it is quite possible the manifold is different than the one pictured on the website. Like every other website out there we do have disclaimers for that. That said, the length of your IM runners were pretty standard. When I inspected it, it was not noted that they were too short or overly long. And yes, some runners are longer than others. They have to be in order to fit around other OEM parts located on the passenger side. For example, the MSM runners will always be shorter than any other year car.
5. Runners are trumpet/horns squeezed into ovals - Ouch, good design gets criticism??? The lack of runner expansion in the middle will allow for smoother flow of air. This is total benefit to performance! As for the oval end, the head flange is oval. The ports on the head are oval. We are simply port matching to promote better air flow. Again, completely a design to aid you in getting smoother power delivery.

Matt, I agree, we made some mistakes. I have offered two different solutions to get you up and running as fast as possible. I feel we are doing the very best we can to fix this as quickly as possible, with the least amount of effort by you.
Stephanie

I see the issue with items 1-2-3 above, but 4-5 are reaching.

Not only does the flange need to be rotated, it should be extended a good 1/2" or so so it can clear the alternator bracket. Pretty simple solution. The OE TB just sits a lot further forward towards the radiator -- accomodations should be made here.

It sucks that it happens, but seem like BEGi is more than willing to make it right.

Are you suggesting that we move the TB flange forward? If so, how much? We are usually very accommodating to feedback. People just have to give it to us.
Stephanie

seems like it just needs bit for the idle valve to clear that bracket. via a thicker flange or bit of tube, that's up to whomever.

Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like rotating the flange may resolve the IAC fitment issue.

that too.

I mean my cast IM that I got from Begi has no provisions for a idle valve, I just have one mounted remotely and it worked fine.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1450893210
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1450893210

Sir,
Sometimes I blow it, sometimes I don't. Clearly I did on this one.

Each air horn is swaged from 2.0 to 2.25, then pressed into an air horn shape of about 3.0. Yours is also, much of it just hides in the weld into the log.

The air horn tube length is standard unless specified.

The log is slightly tilted in an effort to make it parallel to the ground. Such looks better to me.

The SW throttle requirements were unknown to me other than bolt pattern. I hope I got that right.

The tilt of the flange is kinda stupid. Offered to pay shipping both ways.

Sorry you had to wait in line. Many things in front of your's.

If you should ever order from us again and I have to make the item, let us try to schedule it around my somewhat sudden requirement for spinal surgery. That should prove easy. Also, if we could further schedule it around a considerably more urgent need for 40 consecutive weekdays of radiation treatments. And then...........

Let's try this, and I'm healthy at the moment: You draw up the straight tube manifold you want, give me lots of details, best if you could send the throttle body along, describe the plenum, tube shapes, horn shapes, any special fittings needed, intersection requirements, bracing thoughts needed, all specific dimensions that are pertinent AND I'll make it for you in exchange for the first one. No further charges to you. I'll also do it promptly.

There will be three conditions; it must be aluminum, no castings or other such, and you must list for me at least three mistakes you have made in your career that caused someone an inconvenience.

Regards,
Corky Bell

^ Fair

@Braineack/@Stephanie - 4 & 5 were a fact of mis-advertisement. An updated image of the genuine product BEGi really makes, would have not been misleading. These updates need to include any great ideas along the way you may have of improving the products so customers are not 'surprised'.

@Corky - As a retired military aircraft avionics tech, I never let myself make mistakes. Lives were at risk. Now I am not saying your mistakes ruined my life, but my Christmas present to myself sucks. Please leave the 'good looking tilt' as a selected option, not standard.

@BEGi - Only option I am ever going to happy with is a complete new one done to Bryan's @ Fab9Tuning specs. It seems to mirror the one you advertise on your website. And he is able to use the IAC on the Skunk2 TB! Such a great manifold that he still uses it. One for one trade, new one made correctly and sent in exchange for this mess you sent me. I put my trust in you by paying you in full before production of the intake. Trust FAIL! Time to win that consumer trust back by showing me what kind of a respectable business you really are.

@pdexta - Actually the proper angle of the plenum, straight, would have let the usage of the IAC under the TB. It is about 1.125 inches lower in front than the back. Corky says the tilt looks good. Function before aesthetics makes life so much easier. The rotation of the TB clockwise 90 degrees would be good idea. Future flange if I am disappointed by BEGi again.

@shuiend - Imagine what else you could have done with that time it took making a remote IAC? Now imagine a world in which crappy craftsmanship no longer wastes your time. But I see your resilience and acknowledge it.


Okay, so the throttle cable bracket needs to be re-drilled so that it can be mounted forward. As it is now, the TB is too far in order for the throttle body plate to close fully. The adjustment of the cable is all the way forward. And the angle will be fixed also with the re-drill. In the spirit of half assing things, JB weld and a nut covers the idle air screw. Had some Miata club members over to take a look at the ingenuity. They liked the joke.

I think we are past caring for you dude. You have gotten the best replies you can hope for from a small business.
EDIT: And you're being a child. Its clear that you have no trouble badmouthing them before allowing them to help you, what have they got to gain by building you a brand new one at this stage?

Youve basically made it so its fucked for them and they have little incentive to help you, over what is a mistake made on a handmade part. Well done.

@nitrodann - Yeah got it. But a fool would see them as 'replies'.

The customer is always right. The "best reply" he could have gotten would have been. "send back the undamaged, unmodified manifold that was not built to your liking and you will receive a full refund".

THAT would have been a good reply.

Lame excuses and back and forth babble is not how professional businesses work.

All bets are off when you immediately badmouth them online. Corky has clearly offered everything that he can read his reply.
In a past life I worked in customer service long enough to spot someone who will bitch and moan openly regardless of the offers of help that they receive, and thats what I am seeing.



"I never made any mistakes in my career." You actually said that. I mean, for real?

@nitrodann - I would see it as a honest, sincere and decent thing to do. So would other customers thinking about purchasing their products. Future consumers browsing the web in search of Miata parts and stumble upon this thread, read it entirely and say, "Hey, they had the integrity to admit they messed up and made it right by ensuring the customer was satisfied by regaining their trust. I think I'll make an order today". They gain respect nitrodann.

Obviously. :jerkit:
But this thread would have never been started if things would have been taken care of professionally from the get go.

Then again, when i'm not satisfied with a product, i simply ask for a refund for returning their product. Sometimes there's a restocking fee...

You fucked up already by badmouthing them. And they clearly offered to help already.

That goes Both ways which is exactly my point .

Just Corky being Corky.

"Yeah, I know I'm fucking shit, but you are too. And excuses, excuses, excuses. Blablabla. Now admit you suck too, before I do what it is you originally paid me for."

Fucking serious?

It's pretty common knowledge that Bell sucks on timelines, customer service, and communication. If you DON'T come to the forum to raise a stink, you don't get satisfaction.

Not the first time I've seen it, by far. What is the common denominator? Always the same complains? Really?

Interesting read here in Britain.A company that seems to have made a genuine mistake and offered to correct it in many ways.
A shame it has happened but full marks to Corky Bell for a full admission of fault and the tremendous offers to correct it.
I only wish we could get this honesty and service in Britain.
As someone who is just about to dive in and turbocharge his 2001 1.8 I shall certainly now be using Begi for parts and advice,I like dealing with companies like them.
Although I know it is disappointing for the person who originally bought it slagging Begi off on a forum for exemplary after sale service is not a mature or helpful act.
Incidentally anybody who has never made a mistake has never done anything.We are all human and I am a surgeon who's mistakes could kill.

Except this happens with every order. Over and over again. Good luck. Don't come crying back here when your car still isn't turbo'd in 2 years.

I also know this BTW. Doesn't change a damned thing about disrespecting the company repeatedly in public rather than just being an adult and speaking over the phone.

From my understanding emails were sent back and forth before this thread was made.

Calling parts that don't fit and work for them "normal" has taken any credibility you may have in this thread away.

Aidandj,yes I have read of problems but I have also read good stories as well.
Getting such parts over here is very difficult and choice is limited unlike you lucky guys.
I am in no rush and having used Corky's book as a bible of learning I am aware of craftsmen that are a little scatterbrained.
I shall give begi a chance with some of the parts difficult to obtain over here.
I will report back honestly and lets see what happens.

^harsh to say it happens on every order.

And Dann... are you sure Corky made such a genuine offer BEFORE this post? Last time I checked, posts on this forum on in chronological order, and Corky's involvement happened AFTER the negative review was posted.

Also, I agree more with Deezums' assessment of Corky's post, than your assessment.

Happened to my one order twice. And took another 4 weeks and 3 phone calls to get a 3an adapter.

Corey made an offer before a few of the OPs further bitching and slandering posts. Read this thread above. Guy slanders Corky.corky replies. Guy slanders at least twice again.

OK. "Happened on both my orders with them."

There has to have been a flawless order carried out by them at some point in history...

I think the biggest problem, as most decided, were Stephanie in customer support.

...and keeping Corky from the Jose and Quaker long enough to weld the thing on straight.

Happened to my one order twice. Happened to the other person I know with a begi kit. Remember twodoor? How is Keith's alphaomega coming.

Honestly, I'm past caring about people "bad mouthing" Corky or BEGi. I like Corky's sense of humor; I enjoyed his book; I appreciate his contributions to the FI Miata community. But he's not a good businessman. If you're constantly apologizing to customers and shipping off replacement parts for free and trying to make amends, something isn't working.

I think it was agreed that the organisation and customer service is borked, which is probably due to corky not having the will to replace steph.

But here its just meaningless slander.

Disagree. BEGi is still a big name in the Miata community, and plenty of noobs will read old threads with 50/50 splits between those critical of BEGi and those who support BEGi unquestioningly, and not be sure whether to spend money with them. Having a record of detailed reviews is important, and that includes angry negative reviews.

This isnt a review, this is a person who clearly got apologetic replies and offers to fix it via email, then decided to slander away anyway.

As a business owner you need to choose your customers. I think this was a bad choice.

What makes it not a review??? He describes the (crappy) product, his frustration and dissatisfaction with it, and notes how the vendor attempted to handle his problem. That it's a negative review doesn't make it slander.

I think its poor form, thats the long and the short of it.

Dann,
Find me one thread where a promise like the one made above was delievered on exactly how it was posted.
Find me just one.

I agree and understand but it doesnt change my opinion on how to behave given the circumstances.

The manifold I have uses a mustang throttle body that as far as I know never came with an integrated IAC. It was only added because I wanted slightly better idle control then leaving the throttle plate cracked when I was having trouble tuning idle. When my car goes back together it won't go back on, because honestly it is not needed.

Sir,
You give me pause to reconsider my offer.

Thanks for your service in the military. As you've never made a mistake, you have clearly earned the right to cast stones.

A refund is probably easier than offering/risking building you another manifold. Your description of some of the features on the manifold sent to you are not correct. Even if the customer is always right. Maybe you better hold off on some of the stones.

It seems to me you still want a manifold. I must stick to my requirement for you to supply enough info for me to build what you want. The offer still stands even if it's pretty risky. I would vastly prefer to please you with a part of my making, and I'll take the risk. Surely, I was the one born that moment.

Send me a picture with notes, make a sketch with notes, write notes on the manifold I sent you, but you gotta tell me. For me to make a copy of someone's copy of my manifold may not prove in either of our best interests.

A new, and simple, request; If the new manifold has anything amiss that makes it unsatisfactory to you, I'd like you to announce it in on this forum, and with similar wording as you've used thus far. Of course, that needs to be done prior to notifying me.

Regards,
Corky

Good grief. Just go drink another daiquiri and stay off the forums.

Everything he said. lol.

Pick your battles corky.

:eggplant:

As a retired military avionics tech, one night actually believe he hasn't made a serious (read: rendering the project non-functional) mistake in his career. Is that hard to believe?

Corky's odd responses and Stephanie's response... as well as several other similar examples like this, illustrate to me that this is not being blown out of proportion.

BEGi, you guys need some serious help.

One time someone set an ECU I built him on fire because he couldnt bother to remove the pull-down I have on the TPS input after he wired in a vTPS.

LOL. I have felt that way about my self built megasquirt.

I'm torn here...

This isn't the first time someone has jumped on Bell for build-quality issues.

Several years ago, I bought an early version of the coolant reroute thermostat spacer which Bell sells. I think mine was the first sold for a 1.6 engine. It didn't fit.

I got in touch with Steph and sent her pictures showing the areas of interference, along with a couple of suggestions to improve functionality.

They sent me another one which incorporated the changes I suggested. It fit perfectly.

Everyone makes mistakes. Companies which specialize in selling unusual and essentially one-off products probably make more mistakes than usual.

People buying these products might or might not expect the same degree of "out of the box perfection" which is customary with high-volume mass produced products.

Nevermind. Not worth the argument.

It's not slander -- slander is spoken. In written form, it would be libel. :)

It would also need to be factually untrue.

--Ian

I emailed Stephanie in April 2013 about getting an intake manifold made. She replied once, but never replied to my follow up email.

Will you make that manifold with a larger diameter plenum? Also, can you make the runners a bit longer or shorter if it poses no packaging problem?

Honestly, call and talk to Corky. It is a much better way to get to them.

As someone who is still new to this particular community, I am not new to these sorts of issues.

First off, the customer should not be designing his own manifold because you made mistakes. It's not like he contacted you in attempts to have a custom manifold made.

Second, why should he confess his mistakes to you in order for you to make your wrongs right, you as a man, and a businessman, should be doing those on your own without expectation of anything in return. Who you customer is professionally is completely irrelevant.

Thirdly, as stated, the customer is always, and will always be right, no matter the amount of nonsense you spill off at the mouth on an Internet forum. You made a mistake, own up to it and make it right, because in the end, you bickering back and forth, asking things of your customer only reflects poorly on you as a business.


Want to resolve this, stop replying here and make it right at all costs. Because if you don't make this situation right, you didn't just lose him ad a customer, but you also lose plenty others as well who read this and see no resolution.


Again, when you make a mistake, you have absolutely zero room to request others to admit their mistakes in exchange for you to make your wrongs right. The reality is, that's just pathetic.

@Corky - I will take your offer of a one for one trade at your expense. A new intake manifold according to my specifications, for the defective one you made prior. Upon deliver and install of the new one, I will honestly give my review of your product again on this forum, and other forums.

As it is the holidays, I will wait until the new year to forward the detailed requirements for the new intake. Until then, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Dann I luv ya to death but I think you are wrong on this one.

BEGI seem to have some good stuff but with all the 'service' issues I hear over and over on forums, I would have no confidence in dealing with them.

Similarly, I would have no fears in purchasing from you as you go overboard to make sure that stupid mistakes don't get made, you do not overpromise and underdeliver (and if there are problems you are more than willing to do all you can). Your reputation is GOLD here in Australia.