[NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-19-2015, 06:23 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Post [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net

Good evening fellow boost heads,

I have a few posts over in the Prefabbed Turbo subforum in Fab9's Turbo NC Kit thread, but overall I'm still lame-o n00b status. I've previously owned a mildly modified 2004 Titanium MSM and loved it and then sold it like a moron.

Did research, discovered that NC Mk2's come from the factory with forged internals and can reasonably deal with ~300wtq without (forcefully?) opening the block. I'm now in Fab9's NC kit pre-production group and will be targeting a power level where 4th gear scrabbles for traction (naively assuming >= ~350WHP on a dynojet; something over 1bar of boost at the manifold.)

I'm approaching this methodically, we're applying boost only after getting the rest of the car pinned down nicely. I've already started a build thread over on Miata.net (yeah, yeah) and will be cross-posting the useful details into THIS thread also.

Stay tuned for the copy pasta tonight and then subsequent updates as the build progresses.
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:26 PM   #2
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

Copy of "first post" over on Miata.net build thread...
Most of the "super cars" start somewhere in the area where each horsepower sent to the tarmac has about 7.5lbs to pull along. They also start with a whole lot of money Since my wife will have none of that while we have kids in the single-digits age, guess I'll go with a modified Miata instead

A 330whp-ish build should be readily attained with a reasonable parts list. But first, the donor: I found this 2009 Touring with suspension package at Lou Fusz Nissan in St. Louis MO. Worked out a good price via phone and internet conversation, took the MegaBus and an Uber to get there from Memphis, and drove it off the lot with 11,240 miles on it for $14k.







(Odometer shown after I drove it home, and to work once or twice.)

Car will go together in four phases, and is paced mostly by the income I assign to it (currently ~$1k/mo for parts, with a rather large bump in October from bonus):

Phase 1: Underpinnings
Flyin' Miata Stage 2 suspension for the NC, includes springs, sways and sway bushings. I already have this kit in my garage waiting.
Camber adjustment bolts. On order, haven't arrived yet.
ILM 5-piece Brace Kit. To be ordered mid-August.

Phase 2: Traction and related
FM LBBK, "standard size", black calipers, slotted (not drilled) front rotors. To be ordered mid-September
Enkei PF01 17x8 +50 in matte black. To be ordered in October
Tires of undecided brand and type, 235/40R17. To be ordered in October
Fender roll as needed, also in October.

Pause: New kid due November 23rd.
A boy this time. Sweet
Love my kids and all, but I'm done. Time for outpatient surgery, if you know what I mean. Ouch. December or January some time, most likely.
Money continues to accrue during this break...

Phase 3: Drivetrain and supplementary
Stock horsepower dyno runs. March timeframe.
Aftermarket radiator TBD. March timeframe
Oil cooler, probably from Rev9. March timeframe.
Carbon/Carbon clutch kit. April-ish.
Upgraded fuel pump. April.

Phase 4: Boost
Special Force Turbo, 1 bar boost, with 1000cc injectors and tuning license. May.
Tuning until it works right. May also.
New horsepower dyno runs. Whenever the tuning is done.

Completion: Drive like a hooligan.
Actually I don't intend to drive like an utter moron, but enjoyment shall commence and persist!

I'll update this thread and this post as I make my way through the build.
Attached Thumbnails
[NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150721_18_45_28_pro.jpg   [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150721_18_45_51_pro.jpg   [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150721_18_46_05_pro.jpg   [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150721_18_46_25_pro.jpg   [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150721_18_47_44_pro.jpg  

[NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150721_18_48_02_pro.jpg  
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:28 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

Condensed 2nd, 3rd and 4th posts from M.Net...
Phase 1: GWR and ILM braces are in. FM stage 2 suspension too. And I went with the Cobalt FSTB per the recommendation of the forum. Timeline of the project still good :-)



A stiff Miata is a happy Miata...


(not pictured: Toe braces are out of view, to the right...)
Attached Thumbnails
[NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20150828_19_22_30_pro.jpg   [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-miataunderside.jpg  
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:29 PM   #4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

Skipped a few posts, here's the brakes.
Brakes arrived a few days ago, sorry for phone pics...





Not pictured is the redline RL600 fluid and stainless lines that were included. I opted for all four matched slotted rotors. The install will have to wait until I get the wheels to properly fit over them...
Attached Thumbnails
[NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20151001_19_11_21_pro.jpg   [NC] 7.5lbs per HP build thread / xpost from M.Net-wp_20151001_19_11_29_pro.jpg  
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:31 PM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

I've stopped here. I'm strongly considering skipping the "new" wheels and tires for the moment and moving straight to the radiator, fans + ducting, oil cooler and clutch instead. Working with Bryan@Fab9 to order all of it from him directly rather than piecemealing it out. I can get the brakes squeezed under the factory wheels with a 5mm spacer, which is what FM recommends.

The other reason I'm considering the wait for tires is it's nearly winter here; new wheels and R-compound rubber will be pointless when it's 40* outside :(
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:48 PM   #6
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,537
Total Cats: 51
Default

OGRacing, a member on this forum, doesn't think the FM LBBK are good brakes.

The post i read (which i tried to find and quote) didn't elaborate much, just seemed to allude to other brake kits being much better for the price.

Not sure this helps you at all, since you already have the brakes.
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:49 PM   #7
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,537
Total Cats: 51
Default

Sweet car, btw. Good deal!
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 07:12 PM   #8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

It looks like he's absolutely not a fan of the Wilwood rotors, which this kit doesn't use. The front fits over stock (11.5") rotors, the rears upsize to a Mazda 5 11.9" blank. I also see that the DynaLights aren't his favorite either for flex reasons, this kit uses the DynoPro caliper instead.

Also, I know the NC kit is sized differently than the NA/NB that are most commonly discussed on this forum. It seems you guys have almost ZERO folks on the third gen platform.
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 08:14 PM   #9
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,738
Total Cats: 461
Default

True. There isn't much love for the NC. It isn't that it's a terrible car, it just isn't very Miata like.
I can certainly appreciate a good build though, and I don't entirely hate the way they look.
What are your plans for a rollbar?
Blackbird makes a very nice one for the NC.
Monk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 09:30 PM   #10
Mr Broke Pants
iTrader: (9)
 
thumpetto007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,537
Total Cats: 51
Default

Ah, ok, good for you!
thumpetto007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 10:07 PM   #11
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,723
Total Cats: 2,481
Default

Loving a properly documented and properly executed NC turbo build, thank you for posting this.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 10:32 PM   #12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

Thanks for the kind words. The brake rotors pictured are slotted versions from the Mazda 5, by the way, rather than Wilwood parts. Forgot to mention that in my prior reply.

Also, one picture that you didn't see is the side profile after the FM Stg2 suspension (Tokico HTS, their own springs, front and rear sways) went in:


Alignment specs are camber at -1.5* F, -1.8*R, 5.5* caster, zero toe. The aggro rear camber is to keep the ***-end a bit more under control with all the bracing and the hard, old stock tires. I'm also using the stiffest setting on the front swaybar and the medium-stiff setting on the rear. With the factory LSD, it's now entirely predicable and can still pull a bit of power-on-oversteer without going ape-****.

I went ahead and ordered the FM wheel spacers tonight so i can get the brakes installed. Haven't decided on which clutch + flywheel I want yet and I'm mildly considering some hood louvers to finish up the cooling.
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 12:52 AM   #13
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,875
Total Cats: 518
Default

So wait, you'll have larger rotors in the rear than in the front? Interesting.

Looking forward to seeing the build.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 01:54 AM   #14
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,788
Total Cats: 336
Default

I don't think there's anything wrong with an LBBK if your goal is weight reduction and you don't plan to take a turbo car to the track. CSP autoxers put 1.6 brakes on NBs, for example, because they're lighter.

That said, you're building a turbo car, and if you *do* plan to take it to the track, then I'd skip the "L" part.

--Ian
codrus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 10:04 AM   #15
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,469
Total Cats: 1,698
Default

Thanks for joining, albuquerquefx!
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 10:35 AM   #16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
So wait, you'll have larger rotors in the rear than in the front? Interesting.
Yup, a bit bizarre, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with an LBBK if your goal is weight reduction and you don't plan to take a turbo car to the track. CSP autoxers put 1.6 brakes on NBs, for example, because they're lighter.

That said, you're building a turbo car, and if you *do* plan to take it to the track, then I'd skip the "L" part.
There are a very high number of these kits on turbocharged or supercharged NC's that visit the track regularly. They're perhaps not the UBER solution, but they're entirely capable of repeatedly stopping a significant amount of inertia. It sounds like there are far better options for the NA/NB Miatas, although I can't imagine why the lighter chassis, lighter unsprung weight and lower (average) power from the 1st/2nd gens would need brakes even more capable than this.

I'm also able to freely admit I'm not a brake genius

Still, trying to wrestle a 2500lb car with 350++ WHP will always be a unique challenge. I'll find my way to a track a few times in this car's life, but most days it will be used to wreak havoc on unsuspecting onramps / offramps and winding roads all over Tennessee, antagonizing ricers that seem to still exist in Memphis, and surprise an occasional "nicer" car just for a thumbs-up.

If I discover that they're not the right brakes, I'll swap the front end for something better.
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 11:12 AM   #17
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,416
Total Cats: 41
Default

I live in SE NM and it is nice to see someone else from NM posting in here! I really, really want to buy an 09+ PRHT and put FAB's new kit on it too. I am finding your budget to be very helpful!
Do you like the FM Stage 2 suspension? I have FM's Stage 2 on my NB and I think it oversteers waay too much.
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 11:22 AM   #18
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sandia Park, NM
Posts: 386
Total Cats: 38
Default

Judging by those lush lawns and brick suburban housing, he's not really a burqueno.

But there has to be a story behind that name that we need to hear.
leboeuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 12:24 PM   #19
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,416
Total Cats: 41
Default

Good point. I read a bit closer and it appears he is in Memphis, TN.
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2015, 01:48 PM   #20
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 17
Default

Story time!

What seems like an eon ago, when I first became interested in working on cars (and eventually became adept at actually doing it) I was living in Rio Rancho, just north of Albuquerque. At the time, my car was a 1997 Hyundai Tiburon FX, which interestingly enough also included forged stock internals and could deal with quite a bit of horsepower before breaking. 350WHP before breaking rods or pistons, 450whp before breaking the diff, and about 650-750whp before breaking the output shaft.

I did a lot of learning, breaking, fixing and upgrading on a car with almost NO aftermarket, and it was an excellent learning opportunity. Built the wiring harness, installed and tuned my own Haltech E6K that I imported directly from Australia. Converted to sequential injection from batch. Built an ignition system from an RX7 toggle ignitor, stock coils and an MSD amplifier. Retrofitted the bigger, aluminum brakes from a 5-lug modern Tiburon. All kinds of crazy **** that really had no other aftermarket alternative.

Ultimately, I came to the painful conclusion that a high power front wheel drive car is horribly expensive and really isn't worth much except for import drag racing, so I parted it out + sold the rolling frame. I do miss the car, really only because of the learning opportunities it provided me.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle
albuquerquefx is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Open diff blown out, can he weld it? 1991 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 12 10-12-2015 07:53 PM
Updated firmware now aem wideband and tuner studio are way off 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 4 10-11-2015 08:16 PM
MSM midpipe: who is the fabricator? tazswing General Miata Chat 4 10-11-2015 06:42 PM
open invitation to Mazda /Fozda meet Chicago area 10/3 Hot_Wheels Local Meets, Events and Tech Days 2 09-24-2015 02:43 PM
starting issue Johnny Tater Engine Performance 3 09-23-2015 06:10 PM


Tags
nc

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:22 PM.