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I've read up on turbo blankets vs heat shields, sounds like I should ditch the blanket for a heatshield. Does anyone know if the FM or Begi heatshields will fit with an EFR? The FM looks like it would have clearance, the Begi, I'm not so sure.
Still waiting for the tax return, but pulled the trigger on the Speeduino while they are in stock. Gonna get that in and get messing around in TS ASAP.
What should my base timing (based on physical CAS position) be? Or does it not matter since the ECU is controlling timing?
EDIT: Found some more info, sounds like base timing doesnt matter as long as the actual value the car is physically timed to is set in TS.
Been digging around in SpeedyEFI's base tune, pulled from their website. Spark table seems reasonable to my untrained eye, VE will obviously get smoothed by VEAL, but it's odd to me that their AFR table goes to 200kpa. First thought would be they want to be safe-ish in case someone tosses the base tune on a turbo car, but then it would just be using the 100kpa row for spark, which, if I've learned anything from the hours of reading, would be pretty bad. I'll be interested to see if this is the same tune that comes on the ECU when it arrives.
That said, spark tables still scare me. I think I'll start trying to cobble together a spark table for my eventual turbo tune based on what I've found from others so far, so I can start getting feedback from the more knowledgeable people on here. Goal would be to get something drivable but safe, that'll let me beat on the setup for a bit to work out hardware kinks before taking it to a dyno so someone who knows what they're doing can dial it in. I really don't want to be that guy messing with plugs, lines, etc on the dyno.
Speeduino from SpeedyEFI came in today. Planning on installing next weekend, as this coming week is my last (ever) week of classes and is very busy. Perhaps a quick dragon trip mid week before I start messing with things, though.
While I lose my mind waiting for the IRS to send my $*!@ing tax return, the car keeps breaking little things. After a quick "clear my head" drive, the passenger window wouldn't roll up. After checking fuses and cursing the idiot previous owner who converted the car from manual to power windows (evidence, the crank holes in the door cards are still there) I ripped into the switches.
Real toasty.
Cleaned up and still not working. Could hear the motor try to roll the window further down, but nothing on the up. Realized one of the contacts is so toasted it could no longer be reached by the rocker.
Problem (temporarily) solved. Enough to get the windows up so I can order new (to me) switches.
Pretty mundane, I know. But I need something to post in this thread since the IRS won't send me my MONEY. Noticing a frustration here yet?
Speeduino is in (and GM IAT, BMW VTPS)! Cold start was ROUGH but once it started, it idled okay with minimal VE tweaking on the SpeedyEFI base map. Tooled around town a bit to let VEAL do its thing, and this is the result. I recognize lots of manual smoothing is still needed.
Realized I still need to verify base timing but am having a hell of a time trying to see down to the timing marks around the stock crossover tube. Am I missing something?
Cranking enrichment curve on the basemap seemed weird so I played with it a bit. Haven't had a chance to see if changes helped cold start, but any thoughts?
Continuing to shout into the void for my own entertainment. Cold(ish) start was much better but hot starts a little rougher. We'll get there.
Went to verify base timing and the mark on my pulley is ~4deg right of TDC and the CAS is as far advanced as I can get it. Timing light set to 0*, fixed timing to 10* in TS. I double, triple checked 19 teeth between ticks, orientation of cam pulleys, crank pulley, etc, and it's run beautifully since. However, I didn't have a timing light to verify timing at that time. I guess tomorrow I'll stick a long screwdriver in the #1 spark plug hole, find TDC, and see where the tick mark on the pulley sits. I want to be sure there's not something hardware-related horribly wrong before I just fix it with trigger angle changes in TS. Am I thinking correctly?
Speeduino is in (and GM IAT, BMW VTPS)! Cold start was ROUGH but once it started, it idled okay with minimal VE tweaking on the SpeedyEFI base map. Tooled around town a bit to let VEAL do its thing, and this is the result. I recognize lots of manual smoothing is still needed.
Realized I still need to verify base timing but am having a hell of a time trying to see down to the timing marks around the stock crossover tube. Am I missing something?
Cranking enrichment curve on the basemap seemed weird so I played with it a bit. Haven't had a chance to see if changes helped cold start, but any thoughts?
Also speeduino here, also have the rough cold start issue. My cranking enrichment looks pretty similar to yours, but i have a hard time switching from cranking to running.
It wants to catch, but is stumbling and i need to give it like 1-3% throttle to get it running, maybe we can help each other out
My VE Table looks pretty much as yours, i'm on 700cc deatschwerks style injectors and my idle VE cells are just around 30-32. Seems pretty low to me, but it is what it is...
Seems to run fine and i could autotune it pretty good with some filters to VEAL.
Correct. The balancer can slip sometimes and mess up the mark, so not a bad idea to check it.
So I verified mechanical timing, tick mark was dead on 0 BTDC when cylinder one was at TDC. Ended up putting the stock ECU back in and timing it the stock way. Then put the Speeduino back in and it was bang on 10* when I commanded 10*. No idea what my previous issue was. As a bonus, I now know my throttle stop screw is where it should be, as I had to adjust the idle to 850 per the factory timing procedure. So I've avoided future nonsense there at least.
Originally Posted by der_vierte
Also speeduino here, also have the rough cold start issue. My cranking enrichment looks pretty similar to yours, but i have a hard time switching from cranking to running.
It wants to catch, but is stumbling and i need to give it like 1-3% throttle to get it running, maybe we can help each other out
My VE Table looks pretty much as yours, i'm on 700cc deatschwerks style injectors and my idle VE cells are just around 30-32. Seems pretty low to me, but it is what it is...
Seems to run fine and i could autotune it pretty good with some filters to VEAL.
Keep us updated and fix your timing issues
I'm always interested in collaboration! I didn't mess with my cold start today as I wanted to focus on the timing issue, but I got my full hot start pretty happy. It was cranking, catching in a reasonable amount of time, slowing for a moment while going super rich and then up to idle. I reduced my operating temp cranking fuel modifier to 100%, and reduced my priming pulsewidth to 0.8 (both in an effort to pull fuel out of it) and it's very close to perfect. I'll further tune my cold start and other temperatures along the temperature curve next time the car is cold. I would take some cold-start datalogs and see what your AFR is doing as you crank and when it catches, if you haven't done that already. Not that I'm an expert tuner, but that's what I did today working on hot start
Further tweaking continues. For der_vierte, "cold starts" have been at around 80* CLT recently. I've got starts from 80* up to operating temp pretty smooth now, not perfect, but pretty smooth. Here's what I've got right now.
Main issue is still bogging a very small amount right after it catches due to going rich, even at operating temp where WUE is at 100%. Not really sure what to do there.
VE table is getting better, feeling pretty stable during cruise and with AE off, slow smooth acceleration is behaving well. What I still need to work on is the locked region along the bottom few rows. From logs (and watching gauges) I'm spiking lean (17+) between 3000 and 3500 when I let off throttle and coast, and VEAL isn't helping. Small screenshot of the log is below. Note that the shorter duration spike right after the long spike is because I have AE off to work on the VE table.
For now I just threw a ton of VE at it and locked it out so I could focus on the rest of the table, but that's my next thing to fine tune. As it sits (see below) the formerly lean region hangs out around 12-13 AFR, which I know is crazy rich but is better than 17-18, at least in my mind. I'd love input!
It looks like your trouble spot is in high vacuum (30kpa and down). You are likely going to have to manually tune that area if you are running largish injectors. The puslewidths get so small down there that you are likely into the non linear range of the injectors and the autotuning is expecting linear response. Had the same issue on my 1.6 running the 630cc injectors.
It looks like your trouble spot is in high vacuum (30kpa and down). You are likely going to have to manually tune that area if you are running largish injectors. The puslewidths get so small down there that you are likely into the non linear range of the injectors and the autotuning is expecting linear response. Had the same issue on my 1.6 running the 630cc injectors.
Stock 1.6 injectors, unless a previous owner (car was bone stock when I got it) replaced them.
Trouble spot is definitely high vacuum. Manually tuning the VE there is my next task, VEAL just wasn't figuring it out. Or I could leave it rich and retard timing
Ah, yeah, the 1.6 injectors are actually pretty darling to tune. Had my car idling perfectly on those. It was pretty great.
You can lean out and advance timing too... Popopoppuffgurgle and then have a small rich spot to coast though *bang!*
Honestly, I think that was my favorite thing to learn to do. I have it set up so coasting down below 3700rpm is quiet and abobe that it makes noise.
I don't necesarily want that all the time, lol, but I definitely want to play with it. The one deficiency I've found with speeduino so far is that you can't set a time on decel fuel cut, it's either on or off. What was your negative timing for the BANG portion?
Thank you for your input, i was pretty lazy yesterday and just did some hard pulls, got a bit rich up top, but nothing crazy (~10 afr). By the way WOT pulls feel amazing (1.8 NA, GT2560R, Kraken 3", 700cc, Toyo IC with 2,25/2,5" piping).
But I'm dealing with some inconsistency in my fueling, especially in low load/idle situations. Did a cold start (17° C) and it went pretty good, but i use way less WUE, need to address that.
My bigger problem is that sometimes my idle AFR is 12.5 and sometimes right around 14 like in the target table (operating temp). I think my DW200 fuel pump is overwhelming my stock FPR, but i have no tool to verify that (yet).
Maybe that also explains my very low idle VE (30) and overall pretty low VE values across the board, aswell as my pretty much uncontrollable AE, drives better when turned completely off.
Those high vacuum cells need to be tuned manually like x_25 said, otherwise VEAL pulled fuel up to 20afr, which is a bit scary.
Thank you for your input, i was pretty lazy yesterday and just did some hard pulls, got a bit rich up top, but nothing crazy (~10 afr). By the way WOT pulls feel amazing (1.8 NA, GT2560R, Kraken 3", 700cc, Toyo IC with 2,25/2,5" piping).
But I'm dealing with some inconsistency in my fueling, especially in low load/idle situations. Did a cold start (17° C) and it went pretty good, but i use way less WUE, need to address that.
My bigger problem is that sometimes my idle AFR is 12.5 and sometimes right around 14 like in the target table (operating temp). I think my DW200 fuel pump is overwhelming my stock FPR, but i have no tool to verify that (yet).
Maybe that also explains my very low idle VE (30) and overall pretty low VE values across the board, aswell as my pretty much uncontrollable AE, drives better when turned completely off.
Those high vacuum cells need to be tuned manually like x_25 said, otherwise VEAL pulled fuel up to 20afr, which is a bit scary.
Man, i need to start a build thread....
That all sounds the same as the issues I was having with large injectors and the small pulsewidths needed like I mentioned up above. Check your datalogs and compare your pulse widths to your dead time and I bet your ECU is commanding something like 0.2-0.4ms of actual fueling time at idle. Which is really, really small. I ended up using EGO correction to get my idle AFR stable.
You may also need to verify your injector dead times. I had to experimentally get mine (there is a good thread around on using excel to graph lines from data and the Y intercept is the dead time) and found out I had it set too low (1.1ms and it needed to be closer to 1.24ms) and the tune was asking for 1.15-1.2ms pulse widths in decel and stuff anf that was causing all kinds of problems.
Subbed for glory. Very similar situation and build when I first turbod my Miata except I used the classic T25. EFR 6258 "budget" build kinda has a nice ring to it
Ignore all the 179 lines and the 174 in my WUE table, that is from the base tune. It hasn't been cold enough here in the southeast US to work on those areas.
Originally Posted by Jumpster74
Subbed for glory. Very similar situation and build when I first turbod my Miata except I used the classic T25. EFR 6258 "budget" build kinda has a nice ring to it
We'll see how "budget" it is in the end. The more I read and research, the less budget the parts list gets. But still not working on unlimited income here, especially as I still don't have a start date on my job due to COVID. I guess I "graduate" tomorrow though, which is nice.
Did the Hakuna parallel fan wiring the other day, it's wonderful. Previously (stationary at idle), CLT was hitting ~200F, single fan kicks on, drops temp to ~192. Now it drops to 180.
Still waiting for the #@&*ing IRS to get their crap together and process my tax return so I can order boosty parts. Got some maintenance items on the way though, new window switches, R Speed window roller bushings, etc. For now I wistfully stare at my 6258 gathering dust.
Also have a line on a 4.1 torsen that is much more fitting for this thread title, story wise. It run in an autocross car that a friend recently purchased for a few events before the he wanted to switch to a viscous, something something SCCA nonsense rules. Ran and locked up fine the whole time, no noises or anything. When his mechanic pulled it, it was bone dry. Pending an inspection of the insides of the diff by said mechanic, friend tells me he'll give me a deal given its history. So... We'll see on that one.
04-11-2020, 08:24 PM
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