:werd: We charge $10 per cubic inch for 'prints' on our older ABS RP and that's cheap. I've printed sections of cylinder heads that cost more than the actual aluminum cylinder head.

Don't worry--the mold is the spendy part. When it's amortized over several cars then the price goes down.

The next step after we get the bodywork set up is to go thrash it at a track day at Willow Springs or Fontucky (California Speedway). The car needs to be fully sorted prior to release.

I'll be posting more videos when that happens, and may possibly tell this forum about the test so anyone can come up and check out the car, and maybe have a little fun in their own cars as well.

I guess we just divided by zero?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1341954275

Just kidding. I do this stuff (CAD/ Rapid Prototyping)for a living. Which machine are you building on? It looks to be FDM based...

Keep up the good work on the project - it seems to be going well.

What do you guys charge for Dimension/ABS printing with the cheap breakaway support? PM if you want.

I remember a few months ago there was this guy who made quality carbon fiber panels for his entire car, in his driveway. Just posted pictures and let them do the talking. That was nice. What happened to that guy? He could probably help Cordy out.

Keep up the good work cordy. Get her done.

Schweet! My mold-maker is fairly secretive. He does military work and the default answer to telling people about his business is "no". :) Personally, I keep wanting to just buy a Makerbot and be done with it, as most of my stuff doesn't require tight tolerances.

Lol. We have contracts with the Army/ government/ Jesus/ FSM, too. The machine is not secret, it's the files. The files are protected with a NDA. Either way, it's his deal - he can be as cloak-and-dagger as he'd like, I guess.

I can do random parts if you don't want to buy a machine. I've got some older machines that are extremely cheap for me to run, and I've got some huge ones that are pretty expensive. I just built a track bike (fixie) frame out of Ultem that was built in 1 print. It's huge. But if you're going to use this as a mold plug - standard ABS on one of the old machines would be really cheap.

Just throwing the offer out there to you. I really do like where you're going with this project.

Aside from plastic parts, we're playing with steel too. I found the half-size pattern for this seat bracket online somewhere on the forums--sorry for the lack of attribution. It was re-drawn and water jet cut from some scrap steel that was laying around. Hope they work.

BTW, they really were from scrap steel--all rusty and crap. I used some EVAPORUST on them and they were as new in 45 minutes. Biodegradable, no need to wear gloves, re-usable, awesome. I "made" a soak container big enough for the parts by skinning a cardboard box with an industrial trash bag.

Nice brackets! There's a market for those if the price is reasonable.

Hi cord.

Brad! :rofl:

Yep, back in the miata game. Got a 91 to toy with. Will hopefully find out if all my work on the green car paid off tonight.

looks like these parts are going to be top notch. very cool. personally I would tend to want to just take things like headlights from another car and avoid all the effort and expense of making the from scratch. I know that is not what you are trying to do here so well done.

Ive been entertaining the idea of doing the 808 kit from factory five kit when it comes out but perhaps this is a better choice. I hope you can choose offer a bare bones kit for the people who just want to track

Honestly, I'm still waiting for some final pricing on the bodywork so the final price is not set. Soon.

This is new information--we will have a base kit, with recommended parts that can be added as your wallet or time allows. I'd say within a year we'll have a track only option, but I wouldn't expect it to be cheaper. It will need to stand up to more abuse, will have safety mods, aero mods, etceteras, which doesn't bring the cost down. However, the base model will be the lightest and the cheapest--perfect for autoX or track days, and can be easily turned into race with safety mods.

well cant wait to see how this develops. the kit i was looking at was the 818 not the 808 my bad. I really want your completed car to be similar to the cost of the 818. should be doable from what you've said. even if your kit costs more, the donor car could be less then a Subaru WRX.

Ah... kit cars. This one looks very awesome. Same idea as the exocet, but not ugly and saves more than 300lbs of weight :D

I've got to be careful how I say this, but while this and the 818 are taking a similar route, this car is more "hand-built" than it is a "kit". The people who are working on it are tops in their field, and I think the full potential of the Miata will be realized. And as Brad said, it won't be ugly. :)

Wait until you see the race version. :drool:

seat brackets
 

Speaking of not ugly, I slapped some etching primer and rattle can black on the seat brackets today. Nice. Now lets hope they fit...

right, no disrespect intended. I know you are designing and building this car to the highest possible standards. the factory five stuff is well designed but building a top notch F5 car requires a fair amount of smoothing. not really a fair comparison I guess, other than the fact I'm interested in building something light, cheap and fast for the track.

None taken! I want this area of the car market to THRIVE. The more the merrier, as long as they're engineered well. If they are, it can only help the sales of every other manufacturer by making the market segment more legitimate.

Speaking of engineering, I think the first few cars won't be shipped out for customers to build, but instead will be built in-house to make sure that they're done right and we didn't miss anything prior to release, such as anomalies between years or potential areas that can be improved.

The nice thing for customers is that the people who designed the car will also be building it. Once we get our act together, maybe you'll be able to drive your donor to Southern California, take a week vacation, and then drive home in your new Catfish. :)

That rapid prototyping technology is very cool. The great thing about a build (design? manufacture?) thread like this is the ability to highlight all of the little details that can easily get overlooked or under-appreciated once the car is built.

That is a good idea.

Rapid prototype is neat stuff. I use SolidWorks to build and review, and rapid prototype when needed to confirm fitment. If an expensive mold needs to be opened, it helps to know that the part will fit. Here are some recent examples:

Things like rapid prototyping and super smart phones are what I call "white swans." They are the sort of science fiction technological advances people don't build in to their models that can transform tomorrow.

Very cool to watch this develop.

that would be sick. but unless I can build this car for about 15k I doubt I will be able to do it anytime soon.

personally I think it would be cool to skin it with miata body parts so it looks stock, but is way lighter. not sure if this is realistic or even feasible but it would be a neat option.

That has been my plan all along.

well played.

Seat brackets, side panels
 

The seat brackets will get a little fine tuning to be perfect, but I think they're production-worthy. Here's a couple shots of them on a Sparco.

The side panels were finally liberated from the molds! I'm not going to show them off until they're completely on the car. Until then, included is a tease of the exhaust cutout.

looks top notch. can't wait for full bodied glory pics

ok I might be a little slow, but are you reusing the stock floor pan? I assume so by looking at the seat mounts but after seeing the amount of work you've done it seems a little silly to use a stock part that many people cut out for clearance reasons.

Good question. NO to the stock floor pan, but YES to the stock seat mount position. Technically your stock seats can bolt right in.

The car will have a flat bottom aluminum skin from front to back, which coupled with splitters and diffusers should give some good down force. In the cockpit, a second set of aluminum panels will be placed from firewall to front seat brackets for safety. IMO, weight added for safety is not a bad thing.

Inner diameter of exhaust hole?

I think it's 4", but subject to change upon notice. :)

The side panels are finally at the car. I didn't have any cleco's today, so the body went together with blue painter's tape and squeeze clamps. The body is literally floating around the frame. It needs to be properly measured and connected. Tomorrow.

Overall, it was a PITA day as I was screwing with all this bodywork by myself. It's a two person job, minimum, to fit the bodywork properly.

First impressions;
--We made the conscious decision to build the body for wide tires, 8.5" at least, and the stock hoops look positively puny.
--There's a really good amount of wind protection in the cockpit. I think it will be possible to go for a Sunday drive without a helmet. :)
--There's still a lot to do. The tin work and proper inner panels for dirt and water still need to be addressed.

All of the final fitment of parts now (inner panels, mounting tabs, etceteras) will be used as templates, duplicated, and tested on the two other frames.

Tomorrow's my last day working on the car for a couple of weeks--vacation and the MotoGP at Laguna Seca await. :)

Looks great!

from concept to car
 

Here's a couple of funny shots. Take a look at the 1/5 scale model and the real car. It's been a long trek...

Ugh, why does it have to turn out so good? That just makes me want it more!

For the wheels, isn't that the hella-tucked look everyone's going for? I may not be grasping the concept...

need moar wheel spacerz

Needs 15x10 6UL's. If there were a street tire that works.

Except in the renderings there is no dish to the wheels, so I dunno. maybe that's the look Cordy is going for overall.

i dont care about dish. i just want it not to look like a 70s car, in repects to tiny sunken wheels in huge fenders. :)

Herrasunk!

http://jesel.com/innovation/componen...pe=orig&id=154

http://jesel.com/innovation/componen...type=orig&id=8

Brain you want the rear wheel skirts too?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342635723

Although this definitely looks clean.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342635965

http://www.cartype.com/pics/427/full...pe_s_50_04.jpg

This is why I shouldn't show pictures until it's completely finished. :)

No way!

overlay
 

Looks can be deceiving. Included is the Catfish outline overlaid on a Miata. FYI, stock tire widths were never, ever considered.

side panels weigh not much
 

The UPS scale was handy, so we propped a side panel up on it. These are by far the largest pieces on the car, and literally run the entire length. 35lbs? 40? 50?!

21lbs.

Was this panel made in what will be your typical material? Fiberglass? Or is this the polymer master for the mold?

Also, I'm really glad to see this coming so far so quickly. So many people have grand ideas that never get beyond the hype.

This body is an S-glass layup with carbon fiber reinforcements at the edges. There's no chopper gun or matte used, just woven material.

The next step is to fabricate the mounting points. The bodywork panels that touch will mount to each other. There will also be a front clip, rear clip, four mounting points above the shock towers, and at the rockers.

The bodywork needs to be stiff for our assault on the standing start mile 200mph club. :rofl:

remember when the exocet was the ugliest thing ever made, ever.

;););)

Great concept, though.

Disagree. While it certainly isn't pretty by any stretch, it's a far cry from some of the crap out there. Remember the Pacer?

The Pacer? Why not the Aztek? To stay on component cars, it could be argued that the Lotus 7 derivatives ain't that purty. However, it's an iconic design that still can run circles around cars that are FAR more expensive, even 50 years later.

Looks are subjective. First priorities are to engineering and safety. If beauty comes along with the package, all the better. Lucky for us, much of the great engineering comes along with purchasing the donor car.

you mention safety. with out going into great detail can you tell me what you have done to make safety a priority? no disrespect, I'm just curious how one goes about addressing safety in a open road race car with a design such as yours.

for instance, the seat brackets retain a miata stock driving position, but it would seem to me getting the seats as low as possible would increase safety from flying pieces off other cars or whatever. the owner could always choose to add a spacer to raise the seat to a stock position.

Building a car like this for something other than personal use--in California--invites every kind of ambulance chaser known to man. Hell, I can just see law suits here because the Catfish isn't "handicap accessible". :facepalm: More importantly, I don't want my name associated with a shoddy, dangerous piece of crap car. That's your short answer.

The long answer is this:

--Ron (our frame builder) is a veteran race car builder whose designs have won the Paris Dakar race, and was tasked with over-building the chassis to be safe. The side rails are high and bend outward after the shock towers. This is good for severe head-on and rear and crashes, as the bars generally bow away from the occupants.
--The car will have all air bags removed, which is safer for a track environment. Who wants to get bumped braking for a corner at 80mph and have your steering wheel airbag deploy?
--The cockpit include harness mounts for a 4, 5 or 6 point safety harnesses.
--There will be a menu of rollbar options, from street hoop to two-passenger roll cage. The customer gets to choose their level of safety.
--The driver and passenger footwells will be double thick. This is to prevent any debris from coming through the floor. Not good.
--There will be engine and rear firewalls to segregate the cockpit from the engine and standard gas tank.
--There are no doors, only cross-braced steel tubing.
--Front clips at front and rear act as mini-crush zones, and parts that can be easily replaced if damaged.

I used to ride sport bikes on the street, but I had too many close calls. Then I moved to the track, but even in a controlled environment you don't have to do anything wrong to be killed on a motorcycle, like the time my RC51 spouted oil on my back tire on the Cal Speedway banking at 140mph. No, I want to have fun on the track and on the road, and not feel like I'm unprotected.

just catching up... i see lots of pretty rapid prototypes and lots of weird secret talk about them. do not understand.

Proto Labs - Fastest Provider of CNC Machined and Injection Molded Parts
Rapid Prototyping, Custom Manufacturing, Production Parts
Rapid Prototyping and Injection Molding Services | Quickparts.com
Copesetic Inc. Prototype services for product developers. Prototype Solutions, Urethane Casting, CNC Prototyping,
Rapid Sheet Metal - The Fastest Prototype SheetMetal Source

Any of these shops can make them in FDM, SLS, SLA, cast urethane, flexible urethane, machined whatever, and have it for you in a week (except the urethane--maybe 2-3 weeks) and they are no secret. Proto labs does super fast machining in days and injection molds in weeks. Rapid sheet metal can get you parts in a week.

Parts aren't always cheap depending on material volume used but if you've got any experience you understand that fast time to market and early prototypes are worth way more than the cost of a few rapid prototypes in the long run.

and now this post is buried in a 15 page thread. winnerrrr.

Yates comes out and says it simpler than I do. Props for that one.

But nevertheless nice progress cord.

Rapid prototyping is rapid--IF they don't have any rush jobs in front of them. Usually these companies have larger, established companies that they're burning out parts for. A little guy like me waits at the back of the line. Oh, did I mention that things slow down if my check book runs out of checks and baby needs a new pair of shoes?

I'm working with people who I want to work with, and sometimes that means having to wait for them. Slows sh!t down, but I don't have multiple engineers and designers on staff, so my ranting and raving about wasted time usually ends up with the person on the other end of the line hanging up on me.

Honestly, if 10 cars are built and I have a car that I'm proud of, I'll be happy. Now if I build 50 a year, recoup the cost and get some cars in the hands of people who share my idea of a true sports car, I'll be really happy.

These shops give you a delivery date in days after order receipt. They don't bump you in line. Though I get if you don't have net 30 credit terms, it's much harder to hold payment back.

I don't work for a large moneybags company. We are 12 people and sell a few hundred total products a year in a good year. Our volumes for prototypes are probably in the $2-3000/year range. We're not making them rich.

And yeah, no money, no parts. That's how it works if you're a business or a person like me who wants to change his timing belt but has a baby on the way (no shoes yet, too young). :)

Congrats on the baby--they're life-changers. :)

So you're telling me I could have had your company build my 14' long molds?

Dont be like that.

First, they aren't my company. Second, I skimmed the thread and didn't specifically read that you're getting 14 foot molds. And finally, I was providing information for the discussion about rapid prototype houses. For small parts (less than 2' x 2' x 2') these are great shops.

I have built my own 14 (well, 15) foot molds for vacuum bagging parts and did not have the luxury of rapid prototyping. If I had a giant gantry mill to machine foam plugs, that would have been nice.

In any case, sorry for crapping up your thread with information that might be useful to everyone but you.

For small parts, I actually use SEMA. They have a member service where they pay $5 per square inch for rapid prototyping. Otherwise, I really like the DIY Makerbot system, which anyone on this thread could potentially put on their desktop and use to start building small prototypes.

My large-scale mold builder does a lot of military work, and doesn't want the publicity, or even cameras inside his shop. I comply.

headlights
 

The headlight bucket is coming along. We've got a custom surround planned to enclose the light that should look great. The neat thing is that it will be hand made and hand welded, like a piece of automotive jewelry. Not like mass production. the turn signal lens is there just for placement--it's not the production piece.

The stock tires have about 7" of tread. The car was made for a tire width of at least 10", which will fill out the fenders nicely.