Cordycord's epic tube frame build
 

How about something COMPLETELY different? How about taking off all the usual stuff... and then remove the UNIBODY including doors, hood, trunk, interior, any of that sissy HVAC stuff and anything that doesn't make the car go, stop or turn?!

Then when you have the essentials just sitting there--nekkid--, you drop on a rigid, light tube frame and a beautiful composite body. I'm doing that now. :) The running frame complete with NA running gear and stock seats weighs in at 1,117lbs! When the body is complete, we'll hit 1,500lbs without trying.

Last, it will be street legal too. :)

How would your engine package respond in a 1,500lb car?

Do you have a build thread.

http://www.exocars.net/showthread.php?t=11293

I'll have a site up soon. I figure that I'll need to start supporting this site once the car is complete, so I'm just teasing a little now.

What do you think?!

I think I like the sound of 1500lbs.

At 1,117lbs it chirps the 949 Racing 15x9's in third gear. This is with a stock 1.6 with 177k miles. Light makes right. :)

Tube frame exposed...
 

Here's the little chirper now...this is the first Youtube of the car.

Comments are appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6x9O...ature=youtu.be

ssr . .

goldish bronze is nice

Is it going to be soooo much fun?

I don't blame you for your enthusiasm, it looks awesome. I am going to give this build it's own thread, it deserves it. And we're all going to screw up the weight savings thread with our fapfapfapfap comments.

Edit: feel free to suggest a new title.

OP, you better add some content to this thread....













please?

Wow, looks cool. Any more details yet? I know this forum, and we are all dying for the deets'

The Catfish
 

I had no idea that this car would start a new thread. That said, I probably shouldn't have hijacked the original thread with the video. :)

Even though we're half way through the build, I'll try to fill in some information. This is a car that I've wanted to build for a while, but needed to do some digging before choosing a donor. The design of the car, the sheer number of them and the strong aftermarket make this the perfect car for this type of build.

I worked with Tony Woodford of AWR to strip a tired old 1990 with 177k miles, and to basically re-engineer the car. A frame was built so that it can be dropped over the existing structure, while a flat aluminum sheet covers the entire floor. A diffuser at the back will give this car real ground effects. Anything that's not needed is not included, and anything that needs to be replaced to improve performance was replaced. That said, we've actually made some new parts for ALL Miatas by working on this custom car. I'll show those when they've been perfected.

More pics...

--the donor
--the donor shell
--complete as it sits now, 1,117lbs with stock seats
--Tony Woodford of AWR
--the frame during the early part of the design process

Once we had the basics of the minimalist frame down, we started to design the shell. More on that later.

Great Scott....

Do you have any more renderings?
p.s. that looks like Rhino3D

dear. gawd. you are my hero.

post #1 made me angry, post #13 made me cum

Just for my dream's sake, what would it cost to have the test drive chassis built? Obviously without any donor parts.

Everything looks doable to the very skilled average joe until you get to the shock towers, which look very nicely done.

This is a REAL car. Two mules have been made, and a third is being built as a dedicated race car. I'm really, really pushing to have the bodywork cnc machined this month. The final car WILL be finished this summer, and will put fear in the owners of Porsches and lesser race cars. :) This is the dream platform for a turbo application. 1,500lbs and 300bhp means 5:1 horsepower ratio, right? Who here is ready for that kind of performance? Giant killa. :)

Your goal is 300 hp in a 1500lb car, making it 400hp per ton. A Veyron weighs 4,162lbs and has 1,000 hp meaning its about 500hp per ton. Not bad.

Holly moo cow!

:drool:, this looks like one hell of a build.

Unfortunately, it baffles me how the below got linked and associated by Youtube with the :drool:-worthy build. Pushy, since when did you start a career as a rapper?

My past always seems to catch up with me. I'll have some more posts later today. I skipped past a whole bunch of assembly, from nekkid Miata to the concept of the frame. BTW, the frame continues to evolve, as chassis #3 is being built for a track-only car. If all goes according to "plans", we'll start on the bodywork this month.

Holy cow this is really cool. Great job so far!

So without reading the thread on the other site, it looks like the donor car gave up subframes/suspension, engine/drivetrain/PPF, pedal assy, fuel tank, and maybe the ecu. Anything else that's no so obvious?

You've got a really good handle on it. You also keep the wiring, fuel lines and brake lines. Obviously there are different levels of build--a racer has different priorities than the guy who is going to use this car for cone-bending on Sundays, or someone who wants to cruise to his local coffee shop. Seats are optional, and we're designing some really, really cool ones. Other options can include wiring, ecu, suspension, racing fuel cell, etceteras.

You can sell (or dump) the unibody, shocks/springs, exhaust, headlight assy, auxiliary wiring, interior/carpet, all glass, all mirrors, all signals and brake lights, A/C pump, HVAC including ducting/controls/wiring, PS complete, door panels/PDL, gas cap door assy, radio/speakers, bumpers, etc. That equals A LOT of weight dropped off the car--weight you won't miss because the performance that replaces all that "stuff" will put a perma-grin on your face.

The Miata nekkid seems purpose-built for a tube frame. The car already has a cradle for the front/rear suspension and engine--we simply tie them together. Our frame is a very simple concept--four tubes link the top and bottom of the cradles, with stiffening lattice tubes throughout. In the course of the build, we try to have every frame piece have multiple jobs so there is no extra or wasted tubing.

The result is that a tired old 1.6 short nose turns this frame into a rocket ship. A short drive by two different test drivers with lots of Miata background confirm that this car pulls harder than any Spec Miata. One tester (who will remain nameless at this point) said the car pulls harder than his 284hp turbo NB.

All that jazz and no tubular control arms?

Seriously?! Do you complain when your free hot fudge sundae arrives with only one cherry on top?

edit--As you can see, we've added the same type of OEM eccentric as on the lower-arms, which should let the racer reduce camber on a lowered car with fat Hoosiers (to flatten the tread profile), or to increase camber for the guy with a lowered car who wants to tuck his tires inside stock fenders.

I'd complain if it were to come with a cherry. If I'm going to town on hot fudge, the last thing I want is fruit ;)

I'm not shitting in your bowl of coco-pops or knocking your work because it's awesome, it just struck me as odd that you go through the hassle of replacing 90% of a miata with tubes, only to keep the heavy control arms. It would certainly seem that you have the skills and tools to have some tubular arms made.

Make the tube frame the oil pan. It could hold the oil and cool it too. Pressurise the while thing like one big accusump.

Im just talkin out my arse.

That thing is pure automotive sex. I get excited just looking at it.

Understood. We've got upper a-arms planned first, but less for weight and more for camber adjustment. I believe that proper setup will lead to a faster car than simple light weight for this particular part.

This is a Miata-based build, meaning that we're making value choices. Too many "cost no option" decisions mean this won't be able to be reproduced--unless you want to buy a $60,000 Miata?. :jerkit:

The big decision was the tube frame, and it's paid big-time dividends. We'll get to the other stuff, but the next big hurdle will be the body.

i would love to have something like that with a 400whp engine :D

I never said ANYTHING about an LS2 being able to fit perfectly in the frame...;)

body
 

I haven't been showing the body on purpose, mainly because it's not 100% complete. However, this overlay shows the body along with a Miata outline. The engine is actually a Duratec unit, as we couldn't find a suitable CAD drawing of the Mazda mill.

The car is being designed for wider than stock rims like the ones that were on the car in the video, so that is one part that can't be transferred from your old car to the "CF", unless you're already running flares.

This just trumped all other builds. I vote sticky.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1331411397

Awesome work. I'll be following this.

original concept
 

Going back to the very, very start, the concept was to use a Mazda Miata to build a completely new tube frame ultralight car. It's my bucket list car.

In the spirit of the original Miata, it's designed by an American using bulletproof Japanese engineering. Like a Miata it's also a reinterpretation of a classic British sports car.

When you see the original sketch, you hopefully can see some Aston Martin, Jaguar, Triumph, and AC. I wanted that classic British look, but with a modern twist.

Something else you should see is an animal. A fish. Designer Greg Tada of American Suzuki penned this car for me. He's a graduate of the Art Center School in Pasadena, and one of his instructors told him to use nature and animals to reference his sketches. Although you might be able to "see" many different cars in the design, it IS a Catfish.

I need details on the frame. My buddy and I were recently considering a locost build. This looks much more awesome, and unique. Good job sir.

This frame ain't a Ron Champion, and definitely will cost more than $250. ;)

The important points to note about the frame are the following:

a) It was designed by a builder whose frames have won the Paris Dakkar rally and countless off-road desert races. Strength and light weight works on the street too.

b) When the car has its unibody removed, this frame is engineered to drop right on and bolt right up.

c) The bottom of the car is a single sheet of aluminum, even enclosing the driveline. Even so, it will be relatively easy to remove for service. There are two secondary aluminum floors in the foot well for safety.

d) The seats have been moved back about 1.5" from a stock Miata. This will help with the long hood GT look, and put the driver's butt closer to the rear wheels for a better driver feeling.

e) Safety first--There will be options for driver only or dual street hoop, or driver-only or dual race cage. The "single driver roll hoop is actually two hoops, so they are functional.

Is that enough information about the frame?

If you don't mind sharing it, what is the estimated torsional rigidity of the frame?

Don't know yet. CAD figures don't mean much because it doesn't take into account the engine/drivetrain as a structural member (we don't have the engine drawn in the frame), and we just went through a pretty big frame change this week that you'll see later.

When we get everything done and buttoned up, we'll do an old fashioned measurement on the car.

In order to bracket the suspension, we've decided to start with Bilstein B46 shocks with Swift springs. Bilstein's are great shocks, and seem to be one of the most used and reliable out there. The springs range 380-504lbs at the front to 224lbs out back, limited somewhat by stock on hand. This should give us a good idea of where to start.

We've made our own adjustable spring perch kit, along with a new style shock top mount that we're testing.

Pics when it's installed.

So, I'm reading this and getting all hot and bothered, and I'm wondering... you are up to what, frame #3? Is the idea to build these as a frame kit and sell them to us poor peasants? (If you covered this in one of the other threads, my apologies, I must have missed it)

Next order of business: Where do I send my deposit check to get on the waiting list? :yippee:

Amazing effort, this probably just became my favorite build thread. I would seriously rip apart my NB to build one of these things.

Thanks for the input--I appreciate it! To your question--there's good news and bad news.

The good--I was not planning on selling this car when I started, but as the build went along it started to make sense. I've shown a few people the final renderings, and there's already double digits lined up on the waiting list.

More good news--I'm not planning on price gouging. I've had people guesstimates in the $35k-$45k range--even one North of $60k. It will be much less, unless you're trying to build a Flying Lizard killer. ;)

The bad news is that since it's not 100% finished, I don't have a figure. Don't ask me to guess at a price, as there are still too many variables.

The other issue is that I have an issue about having people buy this car and want to put spinners, flames, neon running boards or other crap on it. The first few cars will be built by a couple of race shops and known builders, and be sold fairly complete.

I'm going to be "soup nazi" with this car, and be picky about the purchasers. In other words, don't ask if your used Mitsubishi Eclipse wing fit the car. :vash:

Hahahaha! Great response! I agree with your reasoning 100%

Back when Factory5 started releasing there Cobra Roadster kits, I was driving a 90 5.0 Mustang GT and had delusions of building one someday. After finally seeing one in person and finding out just how incomplete the "complete" kit was, and how much fit and finish went into it, and how much it COST to complete, I was over that mess for good.

When I saw your "catfish" I was instantly excited again. While the Caterham ($10,000) and Westfield ($14,590) look like they could be fun, they are just too damn expensive and generally look like ass. If you can keep costs under control and keep these things cheap they would sell like gangbusters. I'm not sure how you would accomplish that with a full body...

After I write the check to the insurance company to buy back my "totaled" NB (knock on wood) I'm looking you guys up. I'd even call PPG and start looking for some Evolution Orange :rofl: CA-DMV SB100 would be next...

I just don't see how this "kit" could come in cheaper than a lotus 7 kit. The frame looks like it will have more manufacturing hours before sale, and the body, well, it is one vs. the panels for the 7 kits. I am always open to being wrong though. ;)

I like this build, but for any potential buyers here that have ever said a $29K Flyin' Miata turn key build was ludicrously expensive even though it has a brand new LS1 and T56, you are going to be seriously disappointed.

I don't see this being a any less than a $24,995 "kit" or $35K turnkey car.

Just my opinion, I hope I'm wrong.

Lets not clog up the thread with price speculation, especially when cord's specifically mentioned that even he wouldn't be willing to even guess at this point. Just enjoy the build and fap over the fantasy of being able to build your own someday. :-P

Looks awesome, sir. And, like others, I'd love to see this as an alternative to some of the other kitcars that are out there for us with less engineering and fabrication skills than yourself.

+1! Sorry, had been drinking. I should have know better than to ahve done that.

Added the concept body shot to my wallpaper rotation on the work machine :)

I must admit that work has slowed a bit on the car, but that's mainly due to my massively blown disc. As is, work from bed with some really psychedelic drugs are making life interesting. I probably wouldn't be showing you guys the stuff below unless I was a little loopy anyway.

Since I can't show you the final car renders, I thought that I'd show a couple of other "secret stuff" that I've been working on. This is my "day job" stuff.

1) LED lighting screw--this is patent-pending M5, M6 or 1/4-20 screw. The screws are machined, gun-drilled, and then a slot is milled under the head. A tiny (TINY!) printed circuit board is then installed, which includes not one but two micro-LED's. You can see the result when lit. The cool part is when you install them on glass or a motorcycle windscreen, as the edges light up. When done right, you can't even tell the light source.

I intend to use these on the Catfish as accessory lights. Wait till you see some of the performance-oriented parts we've made for the car. :)

More to come...



2) ReadyRamp--I

ReadyRamp
 

I'm pretty proud of this part. It's got seven utility patents, and has been well-received in the truck and motorcycle market. It's a bed extender that opens to become a ramp. When not in use, it folds closed. E.Z. P.Z.

This is the new ramp design we've just finished. The two biggest new features are that is customer-assembled--in other words, it ships in a 3" x 9" x 44" box, and you can customize it to match your bike or truck (paint, etc.) before assembly. If a part breaks, it can also simply be replaced.

It has been FEA optimized (Finite Element Analysis) to the point that a 19lb ramp will hold over 1,200lbs at the center point before breaking. Think about that! We went through dozens of profile iterations before finding the lightest option with the best build characteristics. In other words, this ain't no ramp that was made by pulling square tube off the rack and welding it together.

Guess I've got to give you guys another peek.

Still interested?

I certainly didn't cancel my sub to this thread ;)

Good luck with the disk, I watched my father go through something similar when I was a kid. Take it the ---- easy man

Subbed, this is epic.

I can't tell if it's trying to be a lotus or a Z4.

The rendering looks extremely cool, however you should know that most of us are they type of people who prefer to DIY and don't tend to drop $20K on this sort of thing, but then again some do. It defiantly looks like quality.

I'd daily that. It'll be street legal as a kit car right?

Hmm.. Slap some lights, mirrors, and a license plate on it and I'll drive the damn thing daily like this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...9&d=1331252000

I think when you have good looking cars of the same size and configuration, it's tough not to share some features. The overlay shows that it's obviously damn close to the Miata too.

Still, when you see the final renders there is no doubt about the original "Catfish" design.