First Miata - ex-S1 Mazdaspeed
02-15-2021, 11:34 AM
#82
Dyno weather station shows 80 degrees. Meaning it would have compensated the wrong values upward to allow for the lower air density. MCE dyno has had this error for at least a decade, no one is interested in changing it.
My advice, any racer who gets dynoed on it should have a phone app with local weather and force the NASA race director to acknowledge the difference in actual vs dyno temperatures. It worked at Miller in 2013 but it doesn't appear that anyone else ever does that. The flip side is every racer in your class has to deal with the same error factor.
My advice, any racer who gets dynoed on it should have a phone app with local weather and force the NASA race director to acknowledge the difference in actual vs dyno temperatures. It worked at Miller in 2013 but it doesn't appear that anyone else ever does that. The flip side is every racer in your class has to deal with the same error factor.
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Last edited by emilio700; 02-15-2021 at 12:37 PM.
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I don't think anyone was sent for a mandatory compliance dyno.
02-15-2021, 03:10 PM
#85
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Up until this event I hadn't been in the position where I couldn't compete on 100tw tires with the local guys running Hoosiers; this was Erik's first event running his car in 4 so I am now in the position of my free tire well drying up if he continues to run in this class and this track wasn't an anomaly.
I'm not really interested in increasing the size of my tire shaped money shovel so I will probably go back to Maxxis since they give a tire for 2nd. I haven't seen what Toyo's contingency looks like for this year and I can't find the old sheet, so I am assuming there aren't any Toyobucks for 2nd in a 5 field, which is what we get normally.
I'm not really interested in increasing the size of my tire shaped money shovel so I will probably go back to Maxxis since they give a tire for 2nd. I haven't seen what Toyo's contingency looks like for this year and I can't find the old sheet, so I am assuming there aren't any Toyobucks for 2nd in a 5 field, which is what we get normally.
Last edited by yuba; 02-15-2021 at 03:27 PM.
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03-05-2021, 02:27 PM
#86
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Finally chopped up some video from Chuckwalla. I've only run CW a couple of days in a car, so this lap was dumpster tier and I'm not going to bother linking it. It is a 1:56:6 but I over-slowed into 2, 4, 6, and 8.
I'm more familiar with CCW so here is that 1:56:3 lap. Mis-shift in the bowl like an idiot and some bad corner entires throughout. Corners marked 5-4 on the official track map were a four wheel slide mess. All-in-all I'm happy to take input, if anyone has any.
Anyway, I still feel like the car pushes more than it should and the front tire wear / temps show it. Because of this I seem to over brake and hesitate to get back on throttle. I'm sure a lot of it is bad driving, but I'm going to play with rear ride height. If that fails, I have some 2.25 6" 600lb springs left over from my S2000 that I'll try in the rear -- it has 550lb springs on it now.
Front pads started crumbling on the trailing edge, I was told that they are GLoc R12 but I suspect that they are not since they aren't painted like the rear silver R8s are.
RUCA-O bushing was pushed out in the rear, so I pressed in new Mazda competition bushings until I can get ahold of some SADFab sphericals.
Rear upper arm needed some persuasion to line up correctly, but I bought a new upper arm and it was the same way. Already replaced the larger lower knuckle to RLCA bolt. Bent knuckle, bent lower arm, or nothing wrong?
Cam seals and valve cover were weeping oil everywhere, so I replaced them with new OEM ones. Found that the plastic timing covers all had cracks, missing gaskets, and had been worn through by a belt at some point so I bought new OEM ones of those and will be attempting the oven baking trick today to get the lower one on without pulling the pulley off.
I'm more familiar with CCW so here is that 1:56:3 lap. Mis-shift in the bowl like an idiot and some bad corner entires throughout. Corners marked 5-4 on the official track map were a four wheel slide mess. All-in-all I'm happy to take input, if anyone has any.
Anyway, I still feel like the car pushes more than it should and the front tire wear / temps show it. Because of this I seem to over brake and hesitate to get back on throttle. I'm sure a lot of it is bad driving, but I'm going to play with rear ride height. If that fails, I have some 2.25 6" 600lb springs left over from my S2000 that I'll try in the rear -- it has 550lb springs on it now.
Front pads started crumbling on the trailing edge, I was told that they are GLoc R12 but I suspect that they are not since they aren't painted like the rear silver R8s are.
RUCA-O bushing was pushed out in the rear, so I pressed in new Mazda competition bushings until I can get ahold of some SADFab sphericals.
Rear upper arm needed some persuasion to line up correctly, but I bought a new upper arm and it was the same way. Already replaced the larger lower knuckle to RLCA bolt. Bent knuckle, bent lower arm, or nothing wrong?
Cam seals and valve cover were weeping oil everywhere, so I replaced them with new OEM ones. Found that the plastic timing covers all had cracks, missing gaskets, and had been worn through by a belt at some point so I bought new OEM ones of those and will be attempting the oven baking trick today to get the lower one on without pulling the pulley off.
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03-05-2021, 03:09 PM
#87
What kind of brake ducts? 2.5" with lots of bends don't flow well. 3" with a straight shot at rotor/caliper are best. Pretty sure those are indeed R12's in front.
Car was set up for Maxxis RC1, old compound. Everything else being equal, more grip from tires tends to make it tighter. So yeah, a little tweak for the stickier RR's might be in order. Personally I preferred the car level (zero rake) with driver. If I had to dial in more that 1/8 rake, I'd switch springs. If sways are adjustable try that first. If still too tight, then add rear spring in small increments.
Driving wise, not bad. You're a bit impatient with throttle and not letting car slide. A wee bit earlier on the throttle then apply it slower. You wait a bit late, feed to much in, unsettle car, lift a bit which unsettles it more then spend some time in a feedback loop correcting for the rough throttle inputs. Not terrible, just be patient and works towards a single long throttle application on corner exits and smaller, more precise adjustment to maintenance throttle mid corner.
Car was set up for Maxxis RC1, old compound. Everything else being equal, more grip from tires tends to make it tighter. So yeah, a little tweak for the stickier RR's might be in order. Personally I preferred the car level (zero rake) with driver. If I had to dial in more that 1/8 rake, I'd switch springs. If sways are adjustable try that first. If still too tight, then add rear spring in small increments.
Driving wise, not bad. You're a bit impatient with throttle and not letting car slide. A wee bit earlier on the throttle then apply it slower. You wait a bit late, feed to much in, unsettle car, lift a bit which unsettles it more then spend some time in a feedback loop correcting for the rough throttle inputs. Not terrible, just be patient and works towards a single long throttle application on corner exits and smaller, more precise adjustment to maintenance throttle mid corner.
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03-05-2021, 03:24 PM
#88
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It think you're also trying a little too hard at corner entry. It looks like you're turning in hard, losing grip and then you end up sawing at the wheel to mid corner. If you slow down your hands a bit at turn in, you'll get into the corner more smoothly and give the fronts a chance to grip.
Here's Emilio in an S1 at Chuckwalla. Compare his hand speed on turn in to your video above:
Here's Emilio in an S1 at Chuckwalla. Compare his hand speed on turn in to your video above:
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03-05-2021, 03:50 PM
#89
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Yeah, the ducts are 2.5" fed by the cooling duct. I'll see what I can do with them. Oil pressure seems a bit low and likes to drop on corner entry, it is the two digit number at the bottom left of the tachometer in the video.
I see what Roda is talking about with how I flick a bunch of steering into the corner and then back off, so that is for sure something to work on. Same deal with getting on the throttle late and being choppy with it, I FEEL like these are both things I do because I'm trying to get the car to rotate instead of pushing mid corner but I end up upsetting it too much causing the feedback loop. Maybe the setup changes will help my feeling and get me to calm down. I wish I'd just built one of these a few years ago instead of missing out on buying the one orange for sale a couple of years ago and not finding another until this, it'd have been really nice to be on track consistently with great drivers in very similar cars.
WHP East is next weekend but its very hard to get meaningful data there so Inde in April will be the real test.
I see what Roda is talking about with how I flick a bunch of steering into the corner and then back off, so that is for sure something to work on. Same deal with getting on the throttle late and being choppy with it, I FEEL like these are both things I do because I'm trying to get the car to rotate instead of pushing mid corner but I end up upsetting it too much causing the feedback loop. Maybe the setup changes will help my feeling and get me to calm down. I wish I'd just built one of these a few years ago instead of missing out on buying the one orange for sale a couple of years ago and not finding another until this, it'd have been really nice to be on track consistently with great drivers in very similar cars.
WHP East is next weekend but its very hard to get meaningful data there so Inde in April will be the real test.
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03-05-2021, 04:04 PM
#90
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ProAuto is running AMP the last weekend in March if you want to get in some testing time, or you can run in the TT classes. I'm going to try to get out there on March 27th if I can get my cage finished in time.
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03-05-2021, 04:40 PM
#92
We either make our own oil pan baffles or fit the Mazda Comp ones. The dip under braking is an endemic BP issue. They're fundamentally "loose" engines so any change in viscosity from excessive oil temps really hurts oil pressure. One reason why our default oil pump setup on our site is +7psi over OEM.
I also run 20w50 high zinc (ZDDP) race oil in our F/I BP engined track cars and an oil cooler to keep OT's below about 230°. The accumulator that G suggests also works but it's still a good idea to configure things to keep oil pressure high and control slosh. The accumulator is another layer of safety for sure.
Def switch to 3" ducts and take a critical eye to routing. The fewer and shallower bends, the greater the air mass that reaches the brakes.
WRT to to the driving thing, you are in transition from an intermediate to advanced level driver. The usual delineator is the ability to precisely and consistently trail brake in almost every corner. Trail braking only works if you enter turns fast enough and brake late enough to generate some rotation with brakes and an initial steering input. Get the steering and braking inputs wrong and it spins, over slows, pushes, or whatever. Get it right and the car just rotates smoothly with all four tires sliding at the same slip angle with minimal steering input. Was coaching our new assistant logistics manager on the sim rig w/ Oculus VR headset last night. He's about like you, quick but a tad rough here and there. Started the session jumping off brakes and upsetting car on entry. 6 hours later was really sailing into the turns deeper and faster with an increasingly deft touch on the brakes and rotating the car. Just be patient and focus on being precise, not focusing on being aggressive.
I miss driving my S1 and still bummed I couldn't make the class take off the way S2 did.
I also run 20w50 high zinc (ZDDP) race oil in our F/I BP engined track cars and an oil cooler to keep OT's below about 230°. The accumulator that G suggests also works but it's still a good idea to configure things to keep oil pressure high and control slosh. The accumulator is another layer of safety for sure.
Def switch to 3" ducts and take a critical eye to routing. The fewer and shallower bends, the greater the air mass that reaches the brakes.
WRT to to the driving thing, you are in transition from an intermediate to advanced level driver. The usual delineator is the ability to precisely and consistently trail brake in almost every corner. Trail braking only works if you enter turns fast enough and brake late enough to generate some rotation with brakes and an initial steering input. Get the steering and braking inputs wrong and it spins, over slows, pushes, or whatever. Get it right and the car just rotates smoothly with all four tires sliding at the same slip angle with minimal steering input. Was coaching our new assistant logistics manager on the sim rig w/ Oculus VR headset last night. He's about like you, quick but a tad rough here and there. Started the session jumping off brakes and upsetting car on entry. 6 hours later was really sailing into the turns deeper and faster with an increasingly deft touch on the brakes and rotating the car. Just be patient and focus on being precise, not focusing on being aggressive.
I miss driving my S1 and still bummed I couldn't make the class take off the way S2 did.
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Last edited by emilio700; 03-07-2021 at 01:18 PM.
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04-12-2021, 08:30 PM
#93
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Well, I made a few changes since I last posted:
1. GLoc R18 up front
2. Fixed the slammed ride height, now I'm round about 4.5 / 4.75"
3. Corner balanced the car
4. Put 600lb/in rear springs in the back
5. Miataroadster shifter
I'm really happy with the pads, there feels like more of a bite and the car slows at a rate that makes more sense to the pedal pressure I'm putting in. The shifter is also nice too, I can feel between 3rd and 5th now, rather than it being vague.
The ride height and spring change though, good lord, the car finally feels like it should to me. No more plowing like a tractor, it is a complete joy to drive.
I ran an open day at Arizona Motorsports Park on 4/9/21 because I wanted to get a bunch of seat time, I think I ended up with roughly 2.5hr of driving time between 8am and 12pm. I corded a set of Toyo RRs and then threw on the old 25++ heatcycle RC1 v1s since I still had some fuel left.
I was doing pretty consistent 47-48's all morning, swapped to the RC1s and managed my quickest lap of the day with a mistake that cost the 46. Felt like a pretty relaxed lap too. Either way, fresh tires and 30-40* ambient cooler should make a nice difference come fall.
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04-12-2021, 08:37 PM
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It has 1200lb up front and it was 550lb in the rear before. I think the pinch welds were something like 4.125" / 4.0" prior too.
The car triggered the fuel pressure warning a few times in the corner before the main straight with the flag tower on the left, it is the longer left hander. 48-49psi was the low point, but no power cuts or anything, so I need to figure that out. I also noticed that it smelled like fuel a few times if I ran the car too full, but maybe that is normal.
The car triggered the fuel pressure warning a few times in the corner before the main straight with the flag tower on the left, it is the longer left hander. 48-49psi was the low point, but no power cuts or anything, so I need to figure that out. I also noticed that it smelled like fuel a few times if I ran the car too full, but maybe that is normal.
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04-17-2021, 10:18 PM
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Bought a new fuel sock after reading a post that said these things shouldn't pressure drop below like 1.5G sustained.
I like how the front quarter of the tank is like a sump and it was pretty obvious that the OEM fuel sock is meant to trap a fair amount of fuel in it, versus the flat one that was in the tank. I like how Honda had 10yr to copy this setup, instead they built a shitty bowl in the S2000 tank that you can starve on street tires with a left turn that has a decent sized bump mid corner.
Anyway, I've had some super, super intermittent crank trigger errors and the car dies if the crank position sensor gets wet so I bought a new OEM one, but I don't really understand what is going on with the one on the car. It looks like there is an additional hole and some JB Weld smothered all over, wtf? I have a two day event 4hr away next weekend so I'm not going to mess with it for now.
I like how the front quarter of the tank is like a sump and it was pretty obvious that the OEM fuel sock is meant to trap a fair amount of fuel in it, versus the flat one that was in the tank. I like how Honda had 10yr to copy this setup, instead they built a shitty bowl in the S2000 tank that you can starve on street tires with a left turn that has a decent sized bump mid corner.
Anyway, I've had some super, super intermittent crank trigger errors and the car dies if the crank position sensor gets wet so I bought a new OEM one, but I don't really understand what is going on with the one on the car. It looks like there is an additional hole and some JB Weld smothered all over, wtf? I have a two day event 4hr away next weekend so I'm not going to mess with it for now.
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06-09-2021, 05:55 PM
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May as well update. Set both TT4 track records at Inde in April, but they are really soft since I was taking it easy. I also ran the WHP West track for the first time since I ate the fence, everything went really well and I was fairly surprised at the lap times given my main goal was finishing the day clean and the tires I was on (40HC RC1 v1s). That was a big confidence boost, which is something I really needed.
I got ahold of an 813.3 MK60 ABS unit for cheap, ordered the 3DM / Race Harness Technologies sensor kit and ABS harness.
I also cut the door skin off the right door shell since Mazda Motorsports listed the door shell as oversized on the website and wouldn't let me order it. Depending on how the skinning goes I may end up biting the bullet and calling to order a door shell.
Started cutting the quarter out. I prefer a finger sander to cut spot welds, rather than a spot weld drill, but I've never done this many spot welds before so we will see how it goes.
Door skin and quarter panel showed up today. I have no idea how they got these shipped for $22.
Door looks good, turns out I need to take a bit more off the shell.
Quarter has a minor dent in it, I'll just body fill it.
I got ahold of an 813.3 MK60 ABS unit for cheap, ordered the 3DM / Race Harness Technologies sensor kit and ABS harness.
I also cut the door skin off the right door shell since Mazda Motorsports listed the door shell as oversized on the website and wouldn't let me order it. Depending on how the skinning goes I may end up biting the bullet and calling to order a door shell.
Started cutting the quarter out. I prefer a finger sander to cut spot welds, rather than a spot weld drill, but I've never done this many spot welds before so we will see how it goes.
Door skin and quarter panel showed up today. I have no idea how they got these shipped for $22.
Door looks good, turns out I need to take a bit more off the shell.
Quarter has a minor dent in it, I'll just body fill it.
Last edited by yuba; 06-09-2021 at 06:19 PM.
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08-24-2021, 01:25 PM
#98
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Been a while, but the cliffs are
The ABS harness also finally showed up and I'll be working on that this weekend.
I also flew to Oklahoma last weekend and bought a 2016 Hyperblue BRZ home to serve as a daily / backup TT car.
It has the usual mods for a STX car. 245 A052s on 17x9 TC105, ProParts valved Megans, CSG tune with ACE 350 header / front pipe / Touring catback, RacerX control arms, oil cooler, and bunch of other little things.
The ABS harness also finally showed up and I'll be working on that this weekend.
I also flew to Oklahoma last weekend and bought a 2016 Hyperblue BRZ home to serve as a daily / backup TT car.
It has the usual mods for a STX car. 245 A052s on 17x9 TC105, ProParts valved Megans, CSG tune with ACE 350 header / front pipe / Touring catback, RacerX control arms, oil cooler, and bunch of other little things.
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