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Old 07-23-2014, 01:00 AM   #41
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vid from Chuckwalla... Trying to keep up with Eric- one of the best sessions I've ever had!

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Old 07-23-2014, 09:29 AM   #42
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Lol at Church's dyno. I'd say it reads at least 10% high...compared to the dyna packs I've used.

I bet my civic that I dyno'd at 160whp on a dynapack in Ohio would do 180whp on Church's.

Anyway, what really matters are not the raw #'s from his dyno, but how much was gained throughout the tuning session.

It sounds like you're pleased with the power output which is good. Some famous racer once said a car doesn't have enough power unless it can spin the tires from one corner exit until the next corner entry...

Nice build, do you ever catch flak for ruining a perfectly good 10AE?
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:58 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Lol at Church's dyno. I'd say it reads at least 10% high...compared to the dyna packs I've used.

I bet my civic that I dyno'd at 160whp on a dynapack in Ohio would do 180whp on Church's.

Anyway, what really matters are not the raw #'s from his dyno, but how much was gained throughout the tuning session.
It sounds like you're pleased with the power output which is good. Some famous racer once said a car doesn't have enough power unless it can spin the tires from one corner exit until the next corner entry...

Nice build, do you ever catch flak for ruining a perfectly good 10AE?
Thanks for checking out my build. Yeah I catch flak from some people about this being a 10ae. Honestly to me it’s just a miata I picked up for 4500 bucks. This car is rough around the edges. For it to be a worthy 10ae it would have needed a repaint as it’s already 4 different shades of blue with clear coat pealing in 2 spots (hood and left rear quarter) Oh well, I like the fact that you rarely see them at track days so it’s a bit of fun.

Regarding Church’s dyno… yes it does read high. Those in this area that do a significant amount of nasa dyno re-classing seem to think this thing is around 7-8% higher than a dynojet. At any rate you are right comparing dyno numbers to each other from the other side of the country is a losing battle.
That being said from my experience on this particular dyno a handful of years back it seems to read about 10% high. Taking that into account… even if this car makes 140-145 whp on a stock junkyard nb1 long block, with an ms3 basic ecu, a square top intake manifold and a 2.5” cat back…. Color me happy.

I’d say this car is a racing beat header and e85 away from making 150-155whp on even a stingy dyno, which is good enough for what I want to do. This build for me is about being on track as much as possible. I’ve played the game of dumping money into the engine of my past projects and I’ve learned that it’s a losing battle. In my opinion the lap time improvements I get from doing 12-15 track days a year with 140whp outweigh the extra 50hp and driver improvements from only 3-5 track days a year.

This car is a tool for me to improve my driving. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I do enjoy wrenching on it, but it’s a means to an end. That end is training the grey matter.

Thanks again for stopping in on this build. I always enjoy your posts on these boards so I appreciate the comments.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:29 AM   #44
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It looks from your blurry cell phone pic like you are using the '99 coils, how did you mount them? I'm doing a VVT swap in my '99 non-ae and I keep going back and forth on whether to use the '99 coils or rewire for the '01 cops since they came with the engine. Did you trim down the plug wires or get new ones to fit the VVT head?
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:01 PM   #45
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It looks from your blurry cell phone pic like you are using the '99 coils, how did you mount them? I'm doing a VVT swap in my '99 non-ae and I keep going back and forth on whether to use the '99 coils or rewire for the '01 cops since they came with the engine. Did you trim down the plug wires or get new ones to fit the VVT head?
Yeah... as some one whom considers themselves an amateur photographer, that's a deep burn. Ahhh, burns so deep. I've been going so hard lately I've only had time to pick up the garage point and shoot and my cell phone. Sorry about the crappy pictures. I'll make sure to snap some decent shots while I'm at the track this weekend.

I elected to go with the 01+ coil near plugs. I sourced the connectors from ballenger motorsports. The connectors I got from ballenger work like a champ but they do not clip all the way into the coils. So to be safe I zip tied them in place.

Overall if I had to do it over again i'd do it the same way. Eliminating the 99 coils is pretty awesome because they are a weak point to begin with. It also cleans up the back side of the head and gets rid of some clutter.

Parts and Links I used:
Wiring info - VVT Engine Swap Ignition - Mostly MIATA
01 Connectors - Home Shop Connectors / Harnesses Sumitomo 3 Way Plug connector pigtail for Nissan and Mazda coils
Wire -
AC Delco 18 Gauge Wire AC Delco 18 Gauge Wire

Solder Grip Weather Proof Butt Connectors -
Butt Connectors Butt Connectors


The butt connectors are choice. You simply put the wires in, hit it with a heat gun and it makes solid, waterproof connections with just the perfect amount of solder.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:08 PM   #46
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Sweet, I don't even need the connectors because the junkyard I got the motor from simply cut the harness at the back of the head. So I'm pretty sure I have the 01+ pigtails to wire in.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:26 PM   #47
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*Edit* Didnt mean to pile on. I just saw OPs post with the charts.

I love the thread and the car, but anytime I see church numbers I can't help but throw some water on the fire.

Somehow the original article disappeared, (I would be suspicious but inside line has disappeared from edmunds) but this image remains. If you are comparing to other cars tuned there then no issues, but don't expect to keep up car that had similar power on another dyno.

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Last edited by Ziggo; 07-23-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
*Edit* Didnt mean to pile on. I just saw OPs post with the charts.

I love the thread and the car, but anytime I see church numbers I can't help but throw some water on the fire.

Somehow the original article disappeared, (I would be suspicious but inside line has disappeared from edmunds) but this image remains. If you are comparing to other cars tuned there then no issues, but don't expect to keep up car that had similar power on another dyno.

This just in, dyno's read differently than each other! lol

I had my previous car dyno'd on a dynapak dyno (before I moved west) in Atlanta Georgia getting it tuned for 93 octane pump gas. Once I moved here I met the same tuner (Jan Brueggman of Revolution Mini Works) and had the car re-tuned for CA91. This was the very same dyno that my miata was just tuned on yesterday.

photo of car on dynapak in atlanta
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At that time my findings were that my car that previously made 205whp on a dynapak in atlanta now made 210whp on shittier fuel on a dynapak in southern california. While it's not great that there is this variance between two dynapaks... it's the reality of dyno'ing cars.

Dynapak's read 5% higher than a mustang or dynojet plain and simple. It's the fact of removing the wheels from the equation. In addition church's reads higher than most because it's either not calibrated or because number make customers happy.

I get this and expected it when i posted dyno charts on a turbo miata forum of an NA miata making way more power than it should. That being said... this is the same dyno many of the socal super miata guys validate their power figures on and do their tuning on. People that run this series, west coast nasa events and the T25... tell me this dyno chart i posted here is good for 140-145 elsewhere. Which is cool, but doesn't matter to me.

The car feels amazing and it showing nearly perfect numbers for competing in super miata. Which is convenient for when I put a cage in, pull the carpet and start rubbing wheels with the best nasa PTE drivers in the country next summer.

I know I sound defensive but i pretty clearly called out whose dyno this was and that it reads high... I'm not trying to pass off snake oil here. Just the same formula the guys here in socal have been using to all but ruin nasa PTE for every other miata in the country (read: rule changes).
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:34 PM   #49
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I just saw this when I posted. You can understand my reaction. Its a strong motor no doubt, but its not a unicorn, the dyno is the unicorn.

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Old 07-23-2014, 07:57 PM   #50
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I like virtual dyno. Lol

It's about turning and laptimes anyway. Love the flat torque curve.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:02 PM   #51
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Btw, post your spark table. I'd like to compare. My red car is 95 block with 99 head and 01 pistons. Should be similar to a Vvt engine although intake cam profile (bp5a) and timing will be pretty different.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:56 PM   #52
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Looks like you got a nice healthy motor. It's always a nice relief when you finally see numbers from a somewhat unknown motor and they are good.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:32 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
Which is convenient for when I put a cage in, pull the carpet and start rubbing wheels with the best nasa PTE drivers in the country next summer.
:
If the best NASA PTE drivers in the country all race in Cali, how come the last three NASA PTE National Champions are all from east of the Mississippi?

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Old 07-24-2014, 03:56 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
If the best NASA PTE drivers in the country all race in Cali, how come the last three NASA PTE National Champions are all from east of the Mississippi?

If you know Jason Kohler personally, ask him how he won the 2013 PTE/TTE championships.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Lol at Church's dyno. I'd say it reads at least 10% high...compared to the dyna packs I've used.

I bet my civic that I dyno'd at 160whp on a dynapack in Ohio would do 180whp on Church's.
Actually the correction factor for Church is exactly 10%. We also know most of the available Dynojet's between here and the bay area, which ones read high/low and by exactly what percentage. We did our own same day/same car test in 2009 just like Inside Line did and run theses dynos year round anyway.

Most of the guys on our team have me tune their car. Others that aren't close to us use Church with a know correction factor for SuperMiata (capped at 140whp).
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
If you know Jason Kohler personally, ask him how he won the 2013 PTE/TTE championships.
I know how he won.

:trollin:

I need my own dbag racer trolling smiley or something...
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:29 PM   #57
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Now that the drama has subsided, it's time to get back to what this car is all about, going around in circles. First things first... a few people have asked for my ignition maps etc. So below is what's on the car at this time. I'm going to circle back and clean things up since this car is still street driven (lean up cruise etc) but the car has been running absolutely great since the tune.





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Old 08-04-2014, 09:45 PM   #58
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Your spark map looks really conservative. Maybe that's the CA91 tune? Or maybe VVT makes a difference to the spark map?

I think your AFR targets are decent.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:48 PM   #59
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So in anticipation of the 7/26 day on the freshly repaved buttonwillow I ordered up another set of Rivals. This would be my second set. I'll have to look at my logs to find out just how many sessions I ran on this first set but I got some great use on them. If memory serves i think I got some where around 50 +/- 20 minutes sessions.



I got the new rivals slapped on just in time to load the car and head out at 0 dark 30 in the morning of the track day to make the 3 hour trek to BRP. It was already starting to creap into the 80's when I showed up at the track at 7:30... it was going to be a hot one. I got the car unloaded and got the car ready for it's first session. At this point the heat was already headed into the mid 90's and it wasn't even 9am.

The first session was mind blowing. Between the new track surface and the estimated 30-40% horse power increase I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. To top that off they put down a layer of Lime dust to help the track cure and it was like driving on ice. Lap time were irrelevant but wasn't was how this car pulls out of the corners. It's nice be able to pull a lower gear instead of struggling to keep the car in higher RPM's. Overall impressions are the car is much easier to drive within the 95% optimal laptime window. Whether I can manage to drive the car well enough to stay in that window is another story entirely.

Half way through the first session I noticed that my wideband 02 sensor went black. I didn't give it much consideration knowing that the car wasn't making any ego corrections at WOT anyway and just let the car continue on running the maps. When I got back to the hot pits I popped the hood to trace the wideband 02 wiring back to the sensor and see what the issue was. I immediately saw that I left too much slack in my wideband wiring and it drooped and made contact with the header. I was left with a melted mess of 6 wires. This left me with a non functioning wideband for the day. I fired up the laptop and turned off PID ego correction and the continued on for the day.

I cut out the bad section of wiring and used some butt joint crimp connectors to try and fire up the wideband. I had no luck and the wideband stayed dark. I sorta assumed I fried the wideband and or o2 sensor circuitry but the car was still running spectacularly and there was nothing I could do about it at the track so I soldiered on.

Picture of the spliced wideband O2 wiring. Also a quick shot of the willwood 1" master sourced through 949racing. Stock heat shield and 01+ header in all it's glory.


As the day wore on the temps kept climbing. It was obvious that as the temps got closer to the 105 degree mark my oem cooling system could not keep up. The day turned into an exercise of watching the freshly installed longacre water temp gauge and getting hot laps in when I could. I found that I could manage to do 1-2 hot laps and then had to get a 1/2 to full cooldown lap. I spent the majority of the day short shifting at 6200-6500 to make sure to keep temperatures down.

Overall the car is still smoking fast compared to what it was. Obviously with temps like this and with the stock cooling system lap times weren't what they could have been but I still bested my previously lap times by 2 seconds on the one cool first session that I had (with no knowledge of the new lines, curbs and track temps). Overall the car shows absolutely enormous potential. Can't wait for Miata's @ MRLS to really ring the car out.

Next up, Xida Gen 2's, Supermiata Coolant Re-Route, fresh corner balancing and a trip to Mazda Raceway.



Added this totally geeky yet totally swanky "You shall not pass sticker" lol
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:53 PM   #60
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Less than 9 days before I head to Monterey for Miata's @ MRLS. Thrashing on the car this late in the game is not what I had planned... but it's a necessary evil at this point.

List o **** to do:
-Install Xida Gen 2's
-Install VVT Tuner
-Finish M-tuned Coolant Re-route
-Cut in Singular Motorsports Hood Louvers
-Duct Radiator
-Alignment/Corner balance
-Re-install hard top
-Pack and Get on the road.

Spent last night removing the old Gen 1 Xida Clubsports to get ready to install the new ones. Also here's a sneak peak at the new for MRLS Stolzfarhen graphics package.

More on this soon.

Old vs new


My garage is a wreck at the moment. so is my car.
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