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Ironhydroxide's "how to Ruin a low mile MSM"

Old Dec 5, 2024 | 05:25 PM
  #21  
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Is there a reason you welded both sides? You only need to reinforce the side with the notches, correct?

I'm asking and curious because I was going to have my buddy weld some plates in for the notched side..
Old Dec 5, 2024 | 08:57 PM
  #22  
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If the notched side can break, it's my opinion a decent enough hit will also break the other side. If you look at it, it's barely stronger than the notched side. I'm all for plating and welding both arms on both sides fully. There are a number of companies from ebay to planet_miata that offer fully welded housings: https://www.ebay.com/itm/35578313681...tion=view_item
Old Dec 5, 2024 | 09:39 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by SlowTeg
Is there a reason you welded both sides? You only need to reinforce the side with the notches, correct?

I'm asking and curious because I was going to have my buddy weld some plates in for the notched side..
Personally it's a symmetry thing. but with only a ~1/2" notch in one side that breaks regularly... how much weaker is that? especially with rounded weakening (not really stress riser inducing).

and If I'm welding one side, it's less than twice the work to weld the other. the hardest parts are done (removal, cleaning, etc.)
Old Dec 6, 2024 | 08:29 PM
  #24  
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Turns out I'm really bad at pictures.

Finalized the wiring (TC's were the last holdup, but they can be resolved later) and got it tucked away nicely.
Reinstalled the interior bits.
Bolted the diff back together, and into the car.
Installed the Aluminum DS I picked up for a song from another buddy. (HEY something I do have a picture for)

you and the shaft she told you not to worry about
you and the shaft she told you not to worry about

And took it for a bit of a drive for tuning.

Did 60 miles, a fair bit on freeway. The tune is shaping up nicely, just on wastegate right now.
And the printed Speedo gear is still functioning... so that's a win.
Old Dec 24, 2024 | 04:40 PM
  #25  
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So, some updates.
A friend of mine invited me to PRI this year, so I spent 3 days walking around Indianapolis convention center drooling down my front.

But beyond a few wet shirts, PRI gave me a bit more ambition to work on my car.

First off, fixed the EGT TC's by, replacing them with ungrounded units. so nothing really special there.
The spark plug TC's though, I've been trying to get them to work DIY fashion, went through 4 or so "revisions" with some cheap TC Probes. None of them worked reliably enough. So I just called it and decided to order some TC's instead.
A big problem I was finding with the Plug TC's was the clearance. down in the head there's almost no extra space. So I decided to get some adhesive pad TC's instead, and when they arrive I'll shove them down the plug tubes and stick them to the walls.

While the plugs were out I decided to try the fancy "new" Ruthenium plugs. Some cool claims of more even burn etc. IDK what's up with all of that, but guess I bought into the hype.


Beyond that, I have not liked the remote reservoir mounts I had. So I sent out a drawing to one of the online cutout places, and had some blanks cut from 1/2" aluminum.
tossed them in the mill and cleaned up the bores (mostly, seems I got the cut a bit wide, as I didn't quite clean up all the laser/plasma marks before hitting target dimension)




Then I cleaned up the mounting flange with the use of a 3d printed "jig" making it easier to machine all 4 at once.



Design was to fit an M6x1.0 to do the mounting and clamping. and it looks like it's working out as I intended.




Then used my sawzall and cut the relief (maybe it's time to get a slitting arbor for the mill.... )


First test fit worked great, so continued and cut all of them. Holds the reservoir nicely, but doesn't clamp down really tight on them (didn't want to pinch the piston in the bore)






I only got the rear mounted up, as the front I'll have to reroute the lines, and find where I actually want them (and likely have to add threads to mount)


And in other news. I have been unhappy with the trailer I've used in the past... it's a 14k equipment trailer, and just WAY overkill for what I'm normally towing.
So when I found this POS on the local listings for $200 I Jumped on it.

3500lb electric brake axle.


The tires were dryrotted, the wiring had the plug drug off of it, the safety chains weren't, the electric brakes weren't wired at all, the bearings had a TON of play in them.
So I spent another ~$400 in parts, Cleaned and inspected the bearings (almost no grease, were set really loose, but luckily no scarring on races or rollers), repacked and resealed.
added a breakaway brake battery thing. replaced the drug 4pin with a 7pin and wired all that in. Replaced the tires. And if I use my old homedepot bifold 8' ramps, the MSM loads up and tows really nicely.


I still need to do a few things to it before I tow any real distance.
Mudflaps for the truck to not pelt the car with any rocks i'm kicking,
fenders, to keep the trailer from doing the same,
weld on Drings to make it easier and safer on the straps than over hard edges like pictured.
changing the lights to inset "semi" style lights
and cutting off all the angle iron that's just jutting out unneeded (already bashed shins way too many times)

Hopefully I can get that all done, and the front reservoirs relocated before the 3rd weekend in january. Vegas region has an autox scheduled and I'm wanting to run it.
Old Dec 26, 2024 | 12:39 AM
  #26  
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I think you need longer straps for the trailer

You're getting me nervous with those remote mounted reservoirs. Nice work on the mounts! Any padding/insulation to keep the metal on metal from chafing? Not sure if that's something to worry about, but something I'd probably end up doing out of precaution.

Jealous you can run down to Vegas now. I suppose it's possible for me as well, but I'm not sure about driving 10 hours each way.
Old Dec 26, 2024 | 09:56 AM
  #27  
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Seriously, next time I'll break out the 35' straps LOL.

as for the mounts, these hold just tight enough that the reservoirs can't slip in them when mounted, but not so tight that I'm worried about changing the ID of the bore. I might get a LITTLE mark where the mount is, but that's small potatoes.
The reason I went for no insulation/rubber is for heat dissipation, yes it's not much, but that aluminum is an added heat sink, and will help to keep the reservoir closer to ambient temps.

And if Vegas were a 10+ hr drive... yeah, probably not go down unless it was a bigger event, 2 day thing etc. it's still a 6-7hr drive for me but off season has me itching.
Old Dec 31, 2024 | 12:54 PM
  #28  
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I finally took the time to relocate and install the front reservoir holders.
Found they fit real nice right up by the headlights if I remove the plastic relay holder (and OE airbox mount). Drilled and installed a Rivnut for each



Then bolted into place.


Drivers side, I found that the relays would mount nicely to my tube clamps for the intercooler piping. which consequently are M6x1 thread. Just jam another nut on there, and she's happy.



Then the TC's I ordered came in, so Figured I might as well get those in as well.
Adhesive backed TC rated to 300C, so they should be fine.

Tried trimming down the backing to as close to the TC as possible (get the TC as close to the plug as possible, but that led to some delamination of the backing.
Luckily I ordered 8x of these so I put this one away for use somewhere else.


Carefully cleaned the spark tubes, and tried to get them as low as possible, and on the "rear" of each tube.
Cylinder 4 I somehow got about 1/4" higher than the rest, but hopefully that won't matter all that much. If it seems to, i'll pull and install another spare making sure to have it at the same height as the other cylinders.


It was at this point that I realized, this will be a bit of a pain if I ever have to pull the valve cover....
Oh well, if I do, i'll cut the wires, and install some proper TC plugs between.


Got the wires all routed, plugged into the maxx, and did a test.
First scaled them to match the EGT's, and the coolant and air temp sensors (all reading the same temp before starting)
Then let it warm up till fans came on.
I waited till fans went off, and did an increasing RPM run (no load) just to see how things went.

Found the most interesting part to me, is that the CLT delta when going up is roughly the same, but the Plug TC's stay hot longer (well duh, the aluminum isn't actively being cooled and pumped).




I'll definitely be playing around with this, and see what I can find. (also, seems like CYL 3 EGT is cooler than others, maybe getting more fuel?)

Old Dec 31, 2024 | 01:02 PM
  #29  
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That's cool. I'd enable individual cylinder fuel and ignition trims, make sure they're all zeros, then select the entire fuel table for cyl. 3 and enter -2 or -3%, see if it increases EGTs, that injector may be flowing a little better than the others. Of course the real test is removing the injectors and having them flow tested. Looks like this is non-rerouted from the fuzzy picture of the TCs? I really wanna see what cyl 4 looks like after a couple hard pulls.
Old Jan 21, 2025 | 06:26 PM
  #30  
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Well, guess it's time for updates.

First the trailer:
first, cut off all the extra angle Iron (got really tired of bashing shins)
then welded on some 1x4 channel for fender mounts.
Mounted up the fenders with some Dzus fasteners so I can actually get out of the car when loaded.
then Installed and wired LED lighting.
then stickered it up with reflective tape.



Before heading out for vegas the car was pretty ready. Got a fair street tune in it, with some boost tuning, (not complete, but enough to not spike).

Friday comes around and I wake up to 18degrees outside.
Coat up and load up the truck.
a set of 6yr old Rival1.5's that I was lying to myself were still good,
toolset, in case.
ramps, and jack ramps.
jackstands,
jack,
tuning/electronics,
car on trailer, strapped down solid (yes, still with mile long straps)

then last second decided maybe I should hedge my bets and bring the newer (2yo) set of Nankang CR-S.

I'm terrible at pictures.. here's all loaded and ready to go. By this time the temp has risen to a balmy 31 degrees.



Drove down Friday, and at a fuel stop, noticed that my trans cooler filter was slowly dripping... not good, likely cracked housing somehow as tightening the hose clamps didn't help at all.
figured I'd be OK as I keep a gallon of ATF in the truck.
Dropped the car/trailer at my friends in Vegas, then back to the Motel to crash.

Saturday showed back up to friends, and hung out for the morning while his dyno was occupied by customers.
Swapped the Conti's for the Rivals, and took it to get the replacement trans cooler filter for the truck.
this is when I discovered my self-lie. 6 Year Old Rivals do NOT grip whatsoever.

drifted pulling out from his drive to the street... figured it was dirty tires.
understeered the next corner and thought... wow. maybe the fronts are still dirty.

Next couple turns I came to the realization.. I've got rocks around my wheels, not rubber.

Took it easy, and arrived back at friends house with a new filter, with only a few instances of unintended rolling "burnout"

Still waiting I installed the trans filter, and no more drip. hopefully that's the end of that.


~noon customers were done with the dyno, and it was my turn.

Got it bolted up, and started in with fine tuning the fueling. Having a dyno is VERY nice to be able to tune steady state, instead of guessing and tweaking. Most cells were very close, some low MAP cells were ~8-10% out. not too bad for just a coupe street tuning sessions.

then started in on boost tuning, adjusting the closed loop and getting it to hit target reliably.

Then did a few pulls. 193hp is where we felt safe without knocking even after some hard steady state heat soaking. I had some older fuel in it ~4month old. I knew this could hold me back, but wanted the security of not having to worry that it's got some older fuel in it when I go to an Autox.

Then we got to setting up the Antilag, Launch Control, Flat-Shift. Oh the fun things.


A long day in the sun (compared to the 20deg of SLC) and ~65degrees I was pretty tired.
Loaded up the trailer/car with some excitement, and back to the Motel to crash (found it did in fact have some good trailer parking)


Sunday comes along... race day.
We all know that feeling, wake up without alarm, earlier than really intended but excited for the day.
Got ready, and jumped in the truck for some MC-D "breakfast" (ie paper and eggs).
Arrived at the Lot and the day turned into a whirlwind.

Saw 2 other MSM's there one in ES, and one in SSM, along with many other miatas as expected.
3 run groups, and I was lucky enough to get rest on first (or unlucky as I found out later)
was able to walk the grid, chatting with the other Utards, and snagging a ride in a BS Supra.
Then it was off to work.
By the end of the work stint it was already 11:30... made me nervous on what the afternoon would be... one run only?

Got the car warmed up, and took my runs:
First run: Launch control started out well, but power management didn't quite pull enough out to keep the tires hooked. spun and hit 2nd still spinning. then 2nd stuck and was OK. Left it in 2nd all the way out, and just abused the limiter. not very good. On the exit of the turnaround I hit 3rd and it woke up again. able to be mid rev range, and the antilag keeping it in boost. was a dream. Came in with 59.5s run.

Second Run: launched better, tires heated enough to only barely spin, and then grip. then rowed to 2nd and 3rd directly (flat shift is amazing). 3rd was a song. perfect rev range for the course, so long as the turbo stayed spun, and antilag did amazing at that. came in with a 58.0

Third run: still learning to trust the grip, and tires still heating up. again LC and row strait to third. screwed up a bit on the way out, not looking ahead far enough and had to check hard for an offset. on the way back pushed the tires more, and the reminder to look ahead was fresh. came in with a 56.8

4th run: same as third, just not screwing up on the original offset. 56.1.

Then Lunch..... Or so I thought.

Got to the truck and pulled out the cooler. Then heard an announcement, something about driving afternoon stand on this side. Booked it to the bus, and found them lining up. apparently they decided 4 runs was not a good move for the morning, and they're dropping it to 2 run groups with 2 runs a piece. I ended up getting tossed into the group that runs RIGHT NOW.
Ran back to the truck, smashed a sandwich together, and jumped back in the car bringing it to grid.

Choked down half the sandwich before it was my turn.

5th run: knew I was miles from cones. hadn't hit one yet. figured it was time to push (and probably adrenaline from the fliparro no luncharoo). a couple times got late on offsets, but definitely closer to key cones, braking later, and back in the throttle sooner. a slower 56.6 guess the late offsets and cooler tires are still a problem.

Finished the sandwich in the wait. and choked down a gatorade.

6th run: it was time. Look ahead, and be brave. did pretty good on the way out. didn't get caught up on the offsets, really tight on the turnaround and not overslowing. On the way back still overslowed a few parts, but less than before. A couple dances where the back end stuck just when I needed it. Felt amazing. Come across the line thinking low 56 again... clock shows 55.1 Sure, but I may have hit a cone on one of those tailwags.... Nope. clean. Check live timing... 3rd Raw. behind a Supercharged Camaro, and a FM Openwheel snowmobile machine. I'll take it.

then on to work.. standing in the quickly dropping temperature wind, and watching cars go around... why do we do this?
I was overtaken by the MSM in SSM beat me by 1.4s. seems fresh A7 Hoosiers are more effective than a couple year old CR-S', damn. dropped me to 4th raw. and 9th pax.

For the day 10 of us from utah were present and 6 ended up in the top 10 Raw. 5 in the top 10 Pax. I guess those that travel for racing really like racing (and tend to be good at it).


Things I learned:
I needed a rear sway for this venue. had to upset the car to "dance" a bit more than I wanted. (lent my sway to a friend and haven't gotten it back yet)
I need to trust the car more. watching videos after the fact.. i'm still 6+ inches from many of the key cones.

I definitely need more injector for more power. (i have 3 safties setup now. 90% duty cycle is a regular occurance)

I need more cooling sink capacity (On the dyno it was getting HOT after a short time loaded)
I need to trust the car more. watching videos after the fact.. i'm still 6+ inches from many of the key cones.
Cylinder 2-3 run hottest, 1,4 coolest. at least according to my TC's in the plug bores. Maybe it's time to drop a coolant reroute on, and load it up again to see the difference.

So, what's next?
retrieve my swaybar and install.
do a coolant reroute, and schedule another day in vegas sometime this year.
Drive it.

Last edited by Ironhydroxide; Jan 21, 2025 at 08:06 PM.
Old Jan 21, 2025 | 06:54 PM
  #31  
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Sucks that the event wasn't run very smoothly. Unfortunately that seems to be the norm for a lot of clubs.

Dude, I cannot wait to see that antilag in action! I've toyed with the idea of playing with it on the link, but figure I'll be nice to the cat even if it is high flow. Did you delete your cat? If not, any concerns over damaging that or other parts of the exhaust system? I haven't seen many cars who have run antilag for a longer period of time, so I'll be interested to see how it does for you.

I'm also curious, how do you like the Nankangs? Pros/cons compared to other tires you've driven?

Old Jan 21, 2025 | 07:19 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SimBa
Dude, I cannot wait to see that antilag in action! I've toyed with the idea of playing with it on the link, but figure I'll be nice to the cat even if it is high flow. Did you delete your cat? If not, any concerns over damaging that or other parts of the exhaust system? I haven't seen many cars who have run antilag for a longer period of time, so I'll be interested to see how it does for you.
I have a converted test pipe (ie a pipe that goes from MSM downpipe to regular miata exhaust.) and a "catted" racing beat exhaust. the cat was already done before installing, so it's GONE. for antilag, Launch control, etc I would not expect a cat to live long. In classes requiring a cat and inspection I would probably do a vband cat and replace every year. (yeah, not efficient, but it's "legal")

Originally Posted by SimBa
I'm also curious, how do you like the Nankangs? Pros/cons compared to other tires you've driven?
nankangs take longer to warm up (around the same amount as RT660's) have more grip than RT660's on miatas (sidewalls softer than RT660)
Less grip than A052, but also stiffer sidewall. So it's a big tossup. you have camber gain in your suspension and a light car. A052. you have camber gain but heavy car. Nankang/RT660. You have heavy car or no camber gain. Bridgestone. (note. this is my opinion. don't lynch me)
Old Jan 21, 2025 | 09:11 PM
  #33  
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Awesome thread Sir and it was nice to meet you Sunday. Looking forward to seeing you out here again and your updates on here. This was my first time ever using A7s and it was a very humbling experience. I've got a lot learning to do on these lol. Also, you got within .6 sec of me, so my hats off to you on a remarkable drive on older less grippy rubbers.

Lately, our events have been struggling with high registration turnout (not a bad thing for the club), but not enough sunlight (winter) to try to get everyone enough runs. My codriver and I also had to inhale our cheeseburger while running to the bus for the meeting and we still needed to fix the rubbing issue we had on the fender/bumper tab.

Last edited by mr_mazda329; Jan 21, 2025 at 09:42 PM.
Old Jan 22, 2025 | 02:01 AM
  #34  
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My gripe with tires (which I'm a broken record about) is that yolks and bridge stones dont make a 245. That basically leaves falkens, Nankangs and Vitours for competitive tires. Your feedback about needing heat is what I've heard before about the Nankangs. Glad to hear more feedback/experience about them.
Old Jan 24, 2025 | 11:53 AM
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Finally got around to uploading a video of my fastest lap.

Old Jan 24, 2025 | 12:54 PM
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No gloves on the suede... savage.

Also, that lot is huge! Super jealous of that. What diff ratio are you running? The 2->3 shift seemed super quick but it could just be that the course is bigger than I'm used to.
Old Jan 24, 2025 | 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SimBa
No gloves on the suede... savage.

Also, that lot is huge! Super jealous of that. What diff ratio are you running? The 2->3 shift seemed super quick but it could just be that the course is bigger than I'm used to.
gloves? the only thing you can do with gloves on is **** your pants.

Yeah I'm very jealous of the Vegas region for their massive lots, and placed right by the airforce base airstrip means there's literally nobody who cares about sound either (beyond course workers)

OE MSM 6spd, but have a 3.636 final drive and aluminum driveshaft.

probably what makes it seem so quick through the gears is... it is. You can see I got carried away rowing and almost went for 4th before coming to my senses.
Launch control, with power management means I can tune it so it just barely hazes the tires on launch, then the Flat shift makes it to where I literally don't lift off the throttle from the line, to the first slalom cone.
Old May 12, 2025 | 09:47 AM
  #38  
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Guess it's time for an update.

I haven't done much with the car beyond some slight tweaking on the tune.

Took it to Vegas for a Pro Event with a friend, got completely trashed in S1 class, and by my friend as well. I don't do very well in the rush rush of the Pro events. Usually need a bit of time to review the run internally and think about what to do next run.

attended 3 local events which all ended up pretty well.
First event 10th pax, 7th Raw (2nd street tire raw).
Second event 10th pax, 6th raw (1st street tire raw).
Third event 8th pax, 3rd raw (behind a super fast turbo NA miata on 275 hoosiers)

here's the vid of my best run from the last event, had a passenger who was running at the kart track.

Looking forwards to the Winnemucca event, Very curious as to how this one stacks up against SimBa's setup on course.
Old Jun 6, 2025 | 10:25 PM
  #39  
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Guess it's time for a bit of an update, and a request for input.

Updates:
Winnemucca was a blast, did very well the first day (was cold and I was on Yok's, so had the advantage), beating the XB pack by ~0.8s. Second day however was much more a power course, and 3 of the XB Pack @SimBa included beat me the second day. overall the weekend I got 2nd in XB, so I'm quite happy, considering everyone was on more tire, and had wings (shy of the RS2.5, but we don't speak of non miat's here)

Ran a Local event here last weekend, offered a codrive to one of the local XB's now that he's gone and sold his miata for an alfa (what a wacko). The car performed really well, considering the elevation changes of our courses




That said it was a WARM day for june1, When coming up to the final turn I had my engine protection kick in (fuel cut) and figured it was my IAT's as I've seen that before. Began spraying the IC every run, but the cut returned every one of my runs, and not the codrivers.
Checked out the logs and... Well ****. CLT's at 222F... that's not awesome.

So, guess now i'm on to the input request section.
I've been reading and looking at available radiators, as well as fan setups.
I'm kinda thinking of going with this rad. Due to the double pass nature, and Slightly Larger.
Double pass because I'll likely eventually do a reroute on this, and when I do, run hardline coolant pipe down the drivers framerail, instead of try and snake around the already busy passenger side.
And it'll free up more space on the intercooler intake side piping. Just simpler there.
https://www.advanced-autosports.com/...ustom-radiator

Then there's the fan consideration.
It seems that the Chevy Volt (gen2) fans seem to be a very close match to miata radiator size.... and the Maxx won't have any issue running PWM fans. (and I can rig up an arduino/SSR to run them when i have to do the emissions flipflop)
so I'm leaning towards them, though I'd seriously consider other PWM fans if they prove to fit the rad better.
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts...hroud-84153646

Has anyone done Volt fans in the Miata before? (google doesn't really say so)
What's your thoughts, good and bad.
Old Jun 8, 2025 | 10:31 AM
  #40  
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I assume you already have the ECU to kick both fans on around thermostat temp? I wired a switch into my ECU so I can force both to run constantly at autocross and still behave normal on the street.

Any reason not to use the Miata fans? They're generally considered to be sufficient from what I've seen on here. Are the Volt fans supposed to be really good or something? I'd be interested to see what you figure out with them though, maybe it'd end up shifting the cooling meta a bit.

I'll mention ducting as well, as I'm assuming you're still running the stock undertrays without any additional ducting.

That radiator looks beefy. I'm not sure I've seen anyone on here running that one, but I'd certainly hope it would work well for the price. Not sure if you're paying a premium for "spec miata" parts though.

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