That fan is a beast. Any idea how many amps it is drawing?

Not sure on low speed but high speed is a 40a startup and 22a continuous.

Isn't stock like 11 amps continuous? Curious to see how it does for you.

Coppied from a different thread. I should be just fine in terms of amp draw and for startup if i have an issue with idle dip i can always wire in a soft start feature.

This guy piled on aftermarket stuff weighing in ~94 amps when everything was cranked up.
Quote:Originally Posted by aseer
I was driving home the other night in the rain (so everything was on) and when I got home I noticed my battery was running down (MSPNP log was at 10.5V)....

Here are the numbers; I used a clamp-on DC ammeter and measured at the alternator and turned on one component at a time and recorded the reading (rechecking the base current each time too). Listed is the excess current above the baseline when that component is turned on (I also continually checked the logged voltage which stayed at 14V during the measurements).
All measurements are done at idle.


Baseline current: 13A
Fans (FM dual Spal package) 27.6A (18A for the big fan, 9.6A for the small fan)
PIAA Headlights (Xtreme white) 18.6A
Blower 15.9A
PIAA Foglights 11.4A
Aftermarket sound system on full 7.4A
Radar 0.3A

Any thoughts would be great (and if this post belongs in a different section, please feel free to point me in the right direction). The car is a 91 with a turbo, MSPNP, big injectors and other stuff...
vs. a stock system drawing ~57 amps
Quote:Originally Posted by aseer
In case anyone is interested, I borrowed a stock 91 and did the same measurements, same conditions (though this time I measured the voltage at the battery for each measurement rather than reading my MSPNP since this car is stock, battery voltage barely moved once steady state was established).

Baseline ~11A (remeasured each time)
Excess above baseline.
Blower + Fans (AC on) 28.1A
Hi-Beams on 16.5A
Blower alone 15.5A
Headlights (hi-beams off) 12.7A
Drivers side fan 7.3A
Radio ~ 1A (it was moving around though)

From there you can infer the total fan draw is 12.6A
and the AC fan is 5.3A.

Again, if anyone was curious... (and I only checked one car besides mine)

Good info, thanks!

If you want a shroud i can have some made up i just need a minimum order of 5 otherwise its pretty expensive to have the shrouds laser cut. See my full underbody thread for details on that

New fan is in with its 4,000cfm of greatness, with a soft start function and variable speed controller.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...196d8a00e2.jpg
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Dope!

Had some spare time after my EMT final and made some door cards out of abs and a cooling plate out of some dibond I got for free.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ebf1454687.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1f3df56fd9.jpg

Got the door cards installed and picked up an omp wrc-r for 40 from a local auto-x guy

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5654d0f42f.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9ced2dea1c.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ffeca7df3b.jpg

No longer relevant to anything

Was under the car straightening the frame rails and found one of my mystery clunks. The rear of the PPF is hitting the trans tunnel. Ill post a picture in a little bit but does anyone know what would cause the ppf to move enough to hit the unibody. Theres delrin diff bushings and the motor mounts are good with the engine damper support thingy.

This table is no longer relevant. Updated parts table will be posted in the future.

Is that anything like a rub and tug?

Looks like a good build going. Did you ever find out why the PPF was hitting the tunnel?

Are you sure that's going to be enough fan?

Nice toys, too. I'd be lucky to ride a sled with half that power.

Dude I have no idea why its hitting the tunnel I'll dive into that more this summer now that I know where it's coming from. The fan is going to be overkill but when I get around to wiring it I'll use the megasquirt pwm control so I can bring it on slowly

Got my block back from the machine shop wasn't at all happy with the communication and service from the guy. He ended up just doing a bore and hone and decked the top.

Had the rotating assembly balanced last week by a new shop that has great service and is super knowledgeable. I'm having him line bore the block this week and need to verify oil clearances to tell him. The below is what I have found and the Robello Racing spec is what I am leaning towards but i don't know anything about anything. Can someone verify one of the oil clearances I've found or suggest a new one.

Also the new machine shop is Auburn Auto Machine

Robello Racing
Main .0020-.0022
Rod .0018-.0020

FSM
Main .0008-0014 .0040 max
Rod .0008-.0027 .0039 max

Soviets Miata
Main .0020
Rod .0018

So Really having a brain fart on how to wire my big ass fan. It is a Volvo 850 fan with a high and low speed. The easy way to wire it is with the dual relay setup below. But if i do that wont i need to run a separate temp sensor instead of using MS or can I somehow use the MS for a temp signal still.
-I would relay prefer to have a pwm control to control the fan so the speed slowly ramps up based on a temp table in the MS but i have no idea how to go about that.
-The only other option i thin i could do is use a derale pwm fan control and use the temp sensor for a signal to control the fan controller.

Maybe im just over thinking it but any help wrapping my around this is greatly appreciated. :likecat:


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...21f7810791.jpg

You can use the relay diagram you have above, but instead of the low/hi temp switches, they would be MS outputs. Say you use Injector E for low temp and Injector F for hi temp, you would setup in Tunerstudio that Injector E is for fan control, then Injector F is in Programmable Outputs. The way these relays are setup, when none of the outputs are active, the fan is not on. When the low temp output is active and hi temp output is not active, the fan is on low speed. When the hi temp output is active and low temp output is not active, the fan is on high speed. When both inputs are active, the fan is on high speed. The Fan Control portion (low temp activation) works with a temp on and temp off setting. So you could set that to go on at 190 and off at 185. The programmable output portion (hi speed activation) works with a trigger temp and hysteresis. So you could set that to go on at 210 with a 5 degree hysteresis (basically meas 210 on, 205 off). As the car heats up, the fan will be on low at 190, then the high will be on at 210, then the fan will go back to low at 205, then the fan will shut off at 185.

I'll make sure to report back when I test out my MS controlled PWM control setup. It's about $100 in electronics, but isn't ideal for a standard MS. Savington has mentioned that a PWM'd fuel pump was extremely noisy, I can just imaging how that'd be with a big fan. My JBPerf CAN expansion board can PWM up to 20kHz, which should smooth everything out.

Ill wire the above tonight if I can make some time. Is there a way to have the fan run for 5min or so after i shut the car off and remove the key or is that getting too tricky.

You would need a controller for that. When you shut off the car, MS loses power, and so does your outputs. You'd need a controller that knows how to detect an engine shutdown, and keep the fan active for 5 minutes, then kill power. I wouldn't know what type of controller or how to do that though. It reminds me of how to safe shutdown a Raspberry Pi computer. There is a separate micro-controller that has constant power and switched power. When switched power is gone (aka you pull the key), it issues a computer shutdown, waits until the computer is shut down, then kills constant power. The idea would be the same for this.

I am using this... I have my small fan controlled by MS through a standard relay. It comes on at 220 degrees or if my AC compressor is on. My big fan is PWM controlled by the Derale fan controller and starts coming on (just barely spinning) about 170 degrees. It doesn't start moving any serious air until 190 or so.

http://derale.com/products/electric-...n-probe-detail

I also have the sensor that threads into a coolant source and had to put a bunch of in-line resistors to (bias resistors I guess) that brings the usable range of the sensor in line with what will control the Derale. Also, the Derale is forced into 60% mode if the coolant gets to 205 degrees by MS. This is basically a fail safe in case the sensor fails.

(I see you mention this specifically... I am just coming back to this thread and didn't read completely)

That's a pretty nice lookin' module, especially for the price. I probably would've gone that direction if I knew about it, most of the PWM controllers I found were in the $300-$400 range. They just need to use actual coolant temp rather than the sketchy radiator clamp. I like your idea of just fooling a real coolant sensor.

How do you like the derale unit. Do you have more details on the resistors in line to cheat the sensor. I really do like the derale unit i just hate the sensor and would much rather it pick the temp signal up off the MS3X



As for the other setup i could run the above wiring schematic with a 3min time delay relay that would still power the fan.

When you guy run a separate fan relay where are you getting your power source. Are you running a wire all the way to the battery or pulling off the starter or something?

IF you go with a two speed relay- Volvo has what you need. I use the stock Volvo fan relay setups (got two fans & relay setups for $35 at pull-a-part) on two of my cars for two stage speed control. One is with the stock Volvo/Siemens 3000cfm fan (embedded resistor) run as in a stock Volvo and the other (on the Miata) is using a single speed Spal 16" 2600cfm fan to which I've added a resistor for low speed. I never bothered with pwm control for the speeds because the startup load doesn't kill the idle on either car. But then we're not at nearly the same load.

Volvo relay with two speed inputs. Low goes to an embedded resistor in the Siemens fan. Resistor added to Miata/Spal circuit to make it a two speed. Simple and it works, though not elegant like pwm. There are loads of high pwm motor controls on amazon.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...10f00c88e3.pnghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fb9c6210ea.jpg

Sorry I didn't reply until now. So - basically what I did was buy the Derale 16750 replacement sensor. It threads into any coolant port that is the correct size. However, it's not meant to be used with the derale device shown above so what I did (I think) is build a bias resistor for it. How I did this was get both the included sensor and the replacement sensor and set them in a tub of ice water. I measured the resistance.

I then filled a pot with water and boiled it. I measured the resistance on both sensors at boiling point. I also measured the resistance across the range as well, paying specific attention to the 170-200 degree range. What was most important to me, was that at 170-200 degrees the resistance on my new probe was approximately the same as the original probe. From there, I figured out what resistance I would need to add to the replacement probe to make it similar to the original.

It looks like ass honestly, but it works.

If I did it again, I would probably find a way to use the original sensor with an adapter like this: https://www.eastwood.com/derale-1-4-...4aAnRjEALw_wcB

Got the new splitter mounted up and converted the rear to newer sport brakes. This week I have seat brackets showing up and HP+ pads for the rear. Next week hopefully ill have some singular 3" brake ducts arrive and I will be picking up the block from the machine shop on Monday.

The shop line bored the crank, balanced the crank and rods, re decked the block because the first shop sucked, and they set all my oil clearances at .0025 for rods and mains.

Also ignore the mess in the garage I reorganized last weekend


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...104a62578b.jpg
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2502442719.jpg

Also got a Sparco 383 installen and started working on new ducting for the radiator.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4b464f2030.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8f2a5c6a96.jpg
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Because I have a major disease called race car I have made a decision and will be a test mule for a special set of hot side parts that I know you guys will like. Not going to say just what yet but psyber_optix has wanted to see it and been posting about it a bit lately.


if you can guess the 2 hot side parts you get a case of beer when we meet.

answer will be revealed mid summer with pictures

Twin scroll manifold and efr 7163?!

That tire is mounted backwards

Yea yea. I knew I should have but a disclaimer on that pic. I have my set of RS4's in a closet in the guest room of the house since its 30-50°F here lately. That tire just happened to be on the top of the stack and I had more room on that side. The tire is now safe in the closet and will go back to its appropriate home in spring.


Was hoping y'all weren't going to catch that.

So you want an answer now or wait for pictures?

THE PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS!

Answers shall come may or may not have beers with psyber

Bruh, I can't wait. I've been toying with the idea for so long but can't justify yet since my shit still works and hasn't broke

You know you're an engineer when you enjoy tinkering more than driving.

After talking to Matt at hella fab. The car will see a twin scroll efr 7163 with one of his fancy manifolds. It'll be the first he has done for a twin scroll miata.

I'm going to finish all my brake parts then I'll be ordering the turbo and shipping to Matt to mock up

It will be the first twin scroll EFR (with internal WG) I have done for a Miata. ;)

Pretty excited to build it. Having no A/C or P/S really helps on my end for these big turbos. The IWG actuator really limits where you can put them if your like me and recognize the benefits of having it low mounted and not mid or top mounted.

Im like you and like low mount. Makes so many other things easier. Im pretty stoked about it, I get all excited talking about it. Im going to finish up buying all my big brake parts then around early April ill order up the turbo. Found one for $1620 shipped to my door

Churbo EFR? Huh?

He said to mock it up

Im ordering a EFR 7163 Twin Scroll that psyber has been drooling over

Then im shipping it to Matt @ hellafab to make a twin scroll manifold. Its the first one he will have done so he needs the turbo to mock one up.

Then ill have a wicked motor/turbo setup


Does that clarify at all?

Excited to see how this goes. No one has completed their efr 7163 projects yet (unless I'm behind on reading) let alone a tighter trim twin scroll of said turbo.

What A time to be alive. Makes me wish I was building another car.

Yea I couldn't find any build thread that has a efr twin scroll. In one of the other threads someone mentioned wanting to try one. As far as I know this will be the first. Can't wait for it to be done. It'll be a transmission eater haha

Got the seat mounted with some planted seat rails I got off offer up for $60. Has to mildly beat the trans tunnel to move the seat as far over as possible but it fits. Also found a pair of profi ii 6pt harnesses from a guy on here that will be going in soon.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4a14507737.jpg
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Not quite miata conditions on the way to the fire station today
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e345c104c1.jpg

Ordering up the V8R BBK today. Is the Radial Mount worth the upgrade over the DynaPro?

Disregard. Literally found my answer 2 seconds after this post. Searched all yesterday and just saw the below thread.

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...cussion-54434/

So what we have here is a 1.8 flywheel that had the weight cut off and zero balanced.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e0f07bf0f8.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...97eb3d5b4f.jpg
The intake manifold was cleaned and painted.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1b8fa6a845.jpg

Bungs welded on valve cover and painted to match. The passenger bung will get capped and the driver side will be run to a Radium AOS

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...38009029fb.jpg

Then got the new splitter all mounted up using an aluminum structure and 3mm wire and ends from harbor freight. Made the splitter from 1/2 birch ply from home depot motorsports
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https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2ea04dea70.jpg

Where did you pull power for your fan controller. Im wiring now and the instructions say i need and additional filter to make it to the battery and to not pull off the alternator?

Started wiring the Derale PWM fan controller last night. Where should I pull power in the engine bay? Can i use the power off of the 80a main fuse in the fuse box on the passenger side. There is a stud right off of it that would make it easy i just dont want to screw up anything else if I do.

As always pictures will come.

that main fuse would come straight from the battery, yeah? Its been a few years since I have seen a Miata bay with wiring in it lol.

Pull power after the main fuse, somewhere that it wont be current limited (aka light fuse).

Won't that starve my headlights for power when the fan comes on?

the fan draws 40a on startup and 22a continuous however I have a pwm controller with soft start so startup is minimum and full tilt boogie is 22a now.

Can't you just use power from the stock fan relay?

a PWM controller should ramp up to speed (soft start).

also, if you hook your controller directly to the wire that runs to the battery and that drains your lights, you have more problems.

For Controller power i am going to trace the main fan wires to the relay and run that wire to my controller. Really easy and simple dont know wire i struggled so much getting to this point.

Also unrelated to the fan im welding in a 3/8 NPT bung for gm oil temp sensor and a -10 AN for my AOS to drain into the pan. Im welding the -10 fitting directly above the oil drain. Where should i put the oil temp bung? I can go to the side of the drain, or next to the -10, or opposite side and mirror where the oil drain is but them I have wiring on the hot side of the world. Just dont want the temp sensor to hit oem subframe or motor mounts obviously

Option Ahttps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4efc08d335.jpg

Option B
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c97e86b4c5.jpg

to start, you want the oil drain on the same side as the turbo. ;)

you want the oil drain to be above the line of oil in the sump and you want the oil temperature sensor below. I would mount the oil temp sensor on the intake side but make sure it fits with the subframe.

He's talking about an air oil separator drain not turbo.

Temp sensor will fit the subframe above the drain hole, just be sure there's no rib or interference behind where you drill for that oem baffle plate

Perfect thank you.


Also green light has been given to Shlammed (Matt) to start building a manifold!

Any reason not to put the oil temp bung on the hot side then just run the wire with the O2 sensor