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New thrust bearings. I think my motor had a pre-existing case of crank walk that I didn't recognize (which could explain why it failed in the first place). Then I assembled the motor with new thrust bearings and everything seemed fine. Combined with a heavier pressure plate it rapidly machined itself.
That's my best theory.
Expensive damn lesson.
Damn, that's scary. I'm in the process of building a motor at the moment too. I'm going to remeasure my end-play this weekend.
Also photos. My phone's lens is getting kinda crappy so bear with me and my washed-out looking photos.
Since motor #1 **** the bed, I bought a complete 2002 motor off of ebay and an NB1 head from Treasure Coast. The ebay motor came looking quite gross on the outside, but everything inside looked great. Good cross hatching on the cylinder walls, clean cams/head, etc. I'm happy with it.
I chose to pick up an NB2 motor over an NB1 out of fear of another thrust washer related failure, and over an NA8 because of the redesigned and much larger thrust washers.
The small one is an NB1 thrust washer, the large one is an NB2.
The NB1 head from Treasure Coast is another story. It came clearly rebuilt, but there's "grit" all over it. If you run your finger over it, you pick up all kinds of dirt and little metal shavings. If I use it, I'll need to pull it apart and clean it.
This is where I come to a question: Should I use the NB1 head, or should I use the NB2 head? If I use the NB1, I can sell off the NB2 head to recoup some of the costs, and then I'll need to clean it up. If I use the NB2 head, I'll return the NB1 head to Treasure Coast (and hope there isn't a huge restocking fee), and take the NB2 head into the machinist for an overhaul. There's a bit of added complexity with the NB2 head... with the NB1 I could just plug and play and think nothing of it.
I also ordered pistons, rods, and an oil pump. Maybe I'll get lucky and be able to reuse some of the stuff from the first motor, but I'm expecting it to all be shot or at the very least questionable. I haven't ripped the first motor apart yet due to space constraints. One day it will make a nice glass table. Dreams and aspirations to overweight furniture. The American Dream.
Oh... one more little update. I found a 3.9 R&P for cheap on a Facebook group. My differential is out of the car and at a shop getting the swap. One day when I have either a 6sp or boost it'll be sweet. Until then, cruiser gearing.
FINALLY got everything back from the machinist. Round 2 here we go.
The goal is to have the car up and running (although not yet boosted) in time for Miatas at MRLS. Ordered some TSE brake ducts and a prop valve. Might bite on the $70 Bridgestone rebate and get a set of RE71s as my Rivals are fairly worn. And I need pads... Coming off of Carbotech AX6, looking to step up a little bit in heat range. As of now, I'm undecided on what I want to go with.
I managed to find someone local who wants to do a flat trade for transmissions... he has a MSM 6 speed with 100k and a short shifter and wants my 5 speed. Drivetrain concerns begone. I just have to help him with the swap this weekend.
Also... TSE's EFR kit is calling my name. I think I'm past the Rotrex kick. I already went with 8.6:1 compression, have access to e85, and I'm at altitude. It seems to make sense.
Has anyone used an E46 M3 oil cooler in their car? I have that nice Setrab unit sitting in a box in the garage, but my old man just upgraded the cooler in his car and offered me his OEM one if I can make use of it. It's interesting from a fitment standpoint... it would sit under my radiator and span the full width. I'm gonna test fit it once the motor is in the car to see if its feasible, I like the idea of not fighting with the radiator and future intercooler for real estate, and it would probably be a lot easier to mount than the foglight setup I was planning on. The cooler is just a little smaller in volume and front surface area than the Setrab I have, and then I could sell the Setrab and put some more pennies in the FI piggy bank.
That's the thing about e85. It is safe, with serious compression even.
You're not wrong... I certainly could have gone higher.
I'd just rather be on the "stupid, excessively safe" side of things. I'll still be able to make more power than I know what to do with. Peace of mind is worth it to me.
There's one of the vendors/shops on here that builds all their turbo motors 8.6:1 but I believe part of that is 91 at the pump (cali gas if memory serves correct). I know a local guy making 940 whp on his evo, dedicated e85 car, but running like 11.5:1 if memory serves correctly.
Now, different engine obviously. But the response with a compression that high is hugely noticeable with less boost on a safer, colder fuel.
I just finished my 1.8 build and I went 9:1, but I'm sticking with 93 Michigan gas for now. Next year will be flex fuel. I'm sure I'll miss the response of a higher compression setup, but I thought 9:1 is a happy medium for now for both fuels.
Sorry to hear about the thrust issue, but glad to see you're back on track.
Ordered a few more "track day, bro" items. Sparco Sprints, rails, a harness bar, G Force 6 point harnesses. And I broke down on the RE71rs.
Started putting the motor together, somehow broke a piston ring on install so I called FM and had them rush me a new set for a single piston. Should be here tomorrow. Prepping my oil pan today - drilling and tapping for a turbo oil drain and an oil temp sensor.
Also, as my half of the bargain to get the MSM 6 speed, I helped my friend do the swap in his car. Took us ~12 hours to swap the transmission in his MSM, without pulling the motor. Came with a short throw shifter kit that he swears by... just need to find a shift **** as he's keeping his Anvil 2. I'd get one of the TWM Type-Rs but they're stupid expensive... anyone have a good alternative?
I measured my crank endplay... came in at .0045" Torqued everything down with the ARP studs.
I tapped in a second alignment sleeve, dropped the head gasket into place, and installed the head. Studs were screwed in with an allen wrench to "finger tight" ARP torque lube on the upper threads, and the supplied nuts were torqued to 60 lb/ft in several increments.Bolted up the oil pump with some black RTV around the edge, and the o-ring (came with the Boundary pump) in place.
Water pump and front neck installed, I used a fresh gasket for the WP and reused the o-ring for the neck. Both got gasket sealant.
I marked my oil pan for the oil temp sender (passenger side) and the turbo oil drain. Location for the oil drain was based on Sav's post here: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...e-story-89997/. Basically, its in the corner created by the A/C bracket and a socket w/ extension on the furthest forward oil pan bolt.
Seats, rails, harnesses, harness bar, and a heavy ebay shift **** arrived. I went with Sparco Sprints, PCI adjustable seat mounts, G-Force 6-pt harnesses, and a generic ebay **** M10 x 1 25 mm Stainless Steel 1lb Steel Heavy Weighted Shift **** for Infiniti | eBay. I threw the **** on a scale, and got 431.5g. Should go well with the 6sp and short shifter.
Next steps:
-Figure out intake cam timing w/ exhintake. I got the Toda cam gear specifically meant to work with the NB1 cam angle sensor, I'm thinking I'll drill the stock cam gear and set adjustable cam to match. I'm having a little bit of a brain fart on this, but I think I might need to drill the adjustable cam gear to get it positioned where I need it to be? I'm gonna play around with it tonight, because that doesn't seem right to me. Anyone else done an exhintake with the Toda cam gear?
-Drill and tap oil pan and get it bolted up.
-Start attaching everything else. Coolant reroute bits, hoses, brackets, sensors (knock, oil pressure, water temp, etc), fuel rail/injectors, manifolds. All of the things.
-Install seats, harness bar, harnesses.
In other news: Miatas @ MRLS is coming up! I'm trying to arrange a mountain bike ride if anyone wants in. I'll be trailering my car there from CO, which means I'll have my truck and the ability to drive a group of people to whatever trail we want to ride. At the moment, it looks like Pipeline Loop in Toro Park is the best option. Pipeline Loop Mountain Bike Trail, Salinas, California
It was a productive weekend. The motor isn't in the car, but its close. I'm hoping to turn a key next weekend, this week will be spent buttoning up as much as I can.
So, in the last update I made, I mentioned that I was chewing on how to go about my exhintake. Decided to take the stock gear, drill it and test fit it, and then install the Toda gear. My dad came up with a great template for drilling the cam gear... Anyone local is welcome to borrow it if they want to do an exhintake. Worked great. Drilled the Toda gear so that I could run it with the exhintake and actually keep the angle markings together.
Then I drilled and tapped my oil pan for the turbo drain and oil temp sensor. The MBSP needed drilled out a bit to keep it from interfering with the main studs, so I did that too.
Ooh baby....
And I bolted a bunch of stuff up. I'm getting excited just looking at it.
Motor is in. I have a short list of things to address tonight after work before I can turn a key and start break in.
Not too much to say about it besides that it went a lot smoother this second time around... but here are some pics. The duct tape on the crossover tube is covering a hole for the IAT sensor... it's a temporary fix, so just ignore the ghettoness for now.
I'm breaking it in on the stock ECU, hopefully beginning tonight. I'll probably run the stock ECU until Miatas @ MRLS, but if I get inspired enough I might see if I can get it set up on MS before then. Brakes, seats/harnesses, and alignment are greater priorities at the moment.
And I have been slacking, so hopefully this makes up for it.
The car runs. I've driven 800 miles on the new motor. That's 300 miles more than the last one made it.
My break in process was something like:
1) Change the oil a lot. First oil change after 2 minutes of idling while I checked for leaks, second after a 20 mile cruise up and down a steep mountain road. And then a lot after that. I used straight 30 detergent oil for the first fill up, and 10w-30 conventional since then.
2) Vary RPMs, give the motor a load, give it vacuum. I generally avoided high RPMs for the first 500 miles, but I didn't shy away so much as to never hit them. I just never spent any significant time up above 4-5k
3) Watch everything like the paranoid bastard I am, but try to enjoy the car despite the paranoia.
#3 brings me to a question... I've purpled out nearly every link in the first several pages of every oil pressure related search wording on google. What should I expect for oil pressures? I'm using a VEI dual oil temp/pressure gauge to get my readings. The sensor is teed into the stock location with an adaptor block from Pegasus. Mobil 1 M110 filter, stock oil cooler. Remember that this car spends most of it's time between 5 and 10k feet in elevation. In all conditions besides a hot idle, I'm seeing what looks to be normal oil pressures. Cold startup around 60-70psi, hot cruise (210-230 degrees F) around 45-50psi at 3000rpm. But when I'm at a hot idle, around 220-240 degrees F, I've been seeing pressures from about 10-12psi. From what I've read, this *seems* low but not OHMYGODHWATHAVEIDONE low. But I can't shake the paranoia, as evidenced by the search history on my phone. I need someone to sing me a sweet lullaby about it and tell me everything is okay and that I'm a good boy. I'm thinking of trying a 10-40 for the next change, and I'm wondering how the switch to synthetic in the next 200 miles will affect it. Will report back.
My remaining to-do list before Miatas @ MRLS is:
-Brake Ducts: I've installed the GV knockoff lip so I can begin my ascent (descent?) into the Club Roadster sick nasty swag club. Don't tell them, but I'm going to try ducting into my brakes from the holes in the lip. Conveniently, they're roughly 7" square in diameter, about the same area as 3" pipe. I've seen some talk of people 3d printing ducts for GV lips, so I might try that. Based on the posts I've seen, no one really got the design nailed down. More research is necessary. Other options include bending up aluminum, stealing nozzles from a shop vac, or trying my hand with fiberglass. Suggestions are welcome.
-Cooling: I need to shroud my radiator and actually get/make an undertray panel... I'm missing the stock plastic one. I'll probably make a trip to the hardware store today for some sheet aluminum to play with. Additionally, I want to get my oil cooler installed. I've given up on the fog light mounting for now, and will just mount it behind the radiator. This has me looking at single cooling fan options. I'm going to unplug the passenger side fan today and drive the car a bit to see how my temps do. If they seem reasonable, I might just stick with the driver side OEM fan.
-Alignment: The Supermiata dual duty specs are about what I want. I'm figuring whatever front camber I can squeeze out, .3-.5* less in the rear. As much caster as possible, touch of toe in on the rear and no toe in the front.
-Seats/harnesses: I have the PCI rails that Goodwin sells, but I'm still about an inch or two too far back. Needs more fiddling to get the driver side where I need it. And it's not super low either. I'm 5'9-5'10 and usually fit in everything. It's kind of weird that I'm having issues with these rails, it almost seems like you need really long legs and a short torso to get an adequate seating position with them.
-A track day, time trial, autox or some sort of driving event. I've had this stupid car down for the past 10 months. Trying to make up for lost time now by doing all the car things, and some seat time before Laguna Seca would be good.
PO blew it up or some **** and wanted out, my friend got a pretty decent deal on it. We finally got to pulling and stripping down the motor. There was some custom internal weight reduction, pretty slick stuff.
#3 brings me to a question... I've purpled out nearly every link in the first several pages of every oil pressure related search wording on google. What should I expect for oil pressures? I'm using a VEI dual oil temp/pressure gauge to get my readings. The sensor is teed into the stock location with an adaptor block from Pegasus. Mobil 1 M110 filter, stock oil cooler. Remember that this car spends most of it's time between 5 and 10k feet in elevation. In all conditions besides a hot idle, I'm seeing what looks to be normal oil pressures. Cold startup around 60-70psi, hot cruise (210-230 degrees F) around 45-50psi at 3000rpm. But when I'm at a hot idle, around 220-240 degrees F, I've been seeing pressures from about 10-12psi. From what I've read, this *seems* low but not OHMYGODHWATHAVEIDONE low. But I can't shake the paranoia, as evidenced by the search history on my phone. I need someone to sing me a sweet lullaby about it and tell me everything is okay and that I'm a good boy. I'm thinking of trying a 10-40 for the next change, and I'm wondering how the switch to synthetic in the next 200 miles will affect it. Will report back.
This is to a T what my '99 does, only difference is that I run Rotella T6, but IIRC it was pretty much the same when I was using break-in oil earlier this year. It doesn't take much oil pressure to lubricate stuff at idle, now if you start dropping low under load, that's when you should worry, but it does not appear you are doing so.
Originally Posted by nick470
-Seats/harnesses: I have the PCI rails that Goodwin sells, but I'm still about an inch or two too far back. Needs more fiddling to get the driver side where I need it. And it's not super low either. I'm 5'9-5'10 and usually fit in everything. It's kind of weird that I'm having issues with these rails, it almost seems like you need really long legs and a short torso to get an adequate seating position with them.
I have the same problem with my PCI rails as well. I'm only 5'7", and still have to pull the seat cushion out to pass a broomstick test. Although I suspect it is because I have the seat so close to the wheel, as the passenger side can fit a 6' person with the seat cushion intact. Thinking about trying some of those new mounts that OGRacing sells...
This is to a T what my '99 does, only difference is that I run Rotella T6, but IIRC it was pretty much the same when I was using break-in oil earlier this year. It doesn't take much oil pressure to lubricate stuff at idle, now if you start dropping low under load, that's when you should worry, but it does not appear you are doing so.
So far, no drops under load. I got my oil cooler mounted last night, and I'll be hooking it up tonight. That, combined with a switch to T6 synthetic, should bump that number up a bit. The temperature alone accounts for 3-4psi when I go from 200* to 235* in oil temps. And I still need radiator shrouding and an undertray, which will help.
And for a change of pace, a friend took a picture of my car that isn't super washed out and blurry. Maybe I'm just excited to see this thing up and running, but I think it looks kinda good.
-2500 miles on motor now. My body is ready. Piggy bank is getting there.
In that time, I have:
- Fresh alignment. Around 2* front camber, 1.8* rear. Bit of rear toe in, tried for square in the front but ended up with a little toe in. Caster came out somewhat uneven. These specs brought out a lot more oversteer; did a time attack the next day and the first run was wild. Disconnected the rear sway and the car got understeery, but I left it that way for the day. Got home and stuck the rear sway bar in the softest setting... Haven't been back on an autox course since then but the car has some good manners on track. Little oversteery, but easy to handle and correct. Turn in is good.
- Replaced my Rivals (non-S) with some NT05's I got for next to nothing from a friend, in return for helping him build his motor.
- Bled brakes and swapped to G-Loc R8 pads.
- Took the car to High Plains Raceway for the first time and it did well. In the afternoon, with temps in the high 80's or so, my oil temps crept up after a few laps. This is with no shrouding around the radiator (oil cooler is in stock A/C fan location). Best time of the day was a 2:23.2. T4 and T5 seem to be where I'm leaving the most on the table - doing a little nervous braking at the end of the straight into 4, and I need to be using more of the track on the exit for 5. The blind entrance to T13 is also a little disconcerting, but I think by the end of the day I was getting a feel for where to brake and turn in. Still not sure how fast I can take it, more experimentation necessary.
- Made an aluminum undertray and taped the top side of the radiator with foil tape. Went to MRLS and didn't see temps over 215 for oil or water on track all weekend. Ambient temps were around 75* and the lower altitude helps, but I think the airflow corrections made a big difference. We'll see how temps do when I go back to HPR on the 30th. Still need to address shrouding around the sides of the radiator.
- Felt a little better on track at MRLS than I did my first time at HPR. It helps that I didn't have to learn the track layout, already had a rough idea of what lines I wanted to take. The extra power at sea level was nice, and I think I'm getting a better feel for the car now. Best lap was a 1:58.6. Traffic was a pain in the ***; I signed up for the D run group and it was pretty easy to get stuck in a pack of cars waiting for the mandatory point bys for everyone. But I had a great time... MRLS is such a fun track.
- While I was out there, I got to ride along in Andrew's EFR-equipped car. He said he was making about 275whp, can't recall how much boost he said he was running. Want boost. Need boost. Ready for boost.
- I'm deciding that I need more spring rate. This is probably waiting until after the trubo, and coming in the form of selling my Konis and replacing them with Xidas or something else. Bushings are also on the list... I'd like to stiffen up by a good margin anything holding the transmission in place (had a couple missed shifts at MRLS), and to a lesser extent, stiffen up everything else. Still holding on to those dual-duty dreams, so I'll probably go poly for the diff and rubber for everything else. Need to reread the bushing sticky and decide.
Haven't posted in here for a while, so I figured it was time for some updates.
- The motor is running well. Around 6000 miles on it since the rebuild, and all seems very healthy. Blackstone gave me happy news an oil change or two ago, which put my paranoid mind at ease. Seems to pull pretty well for a n/a motor on the stock ECU, excited to at least get it tuned on MS and squeeze a little more out of it. 6758 is going to happen, but it got put on hold as I address some issues on my truck - diesels are expensive.
- I tried to get the car up on MS, but was having a problem getting a tach signal. We've reached the limit of my electronic knowledge, but fortunately there's a shop about 45 minutes away that works exclusively with Megasquirt. The guy teaches DIY Autotune clinics and everything, so I'm pretty comfortable with the thought of running to him with my tail between my legs asking for help. I've been pretty busy lately with work and school, so I just haven't gotten around to it. It'll happen in the next month or so.
- Installed Xidas (NB tophats, 800/500 rates), extended lower ball joints, SuperMiata End Links, 15x10 6uls, 3" brake ducts, and 245/40-15 RS4s. Fresh Timken front hubs repacked with Amsoil Dominator. Yes the 245s are a lot of tire for a stock-ish powered car. No, I don't care. I have plenty of grip, the car looks sweet, and I'm finding the RS4 to be very driveable. Also got a new Sparco P300 wheel and a Works Bell hub from a friend in exchange for an aluminum undertray and a heat shield that I made for him. Note on the ball joints - I had one drop out on me after an ovalized spindle let it move enough to break the cotter pin off. Check your holes.
- Got some LS2 coils and brackets in exchange for work I did on another friend's car - now I just need to sell the TSE Toyota COP I have sitting in a box next to my desk. PM me if this is relevant to your interests. Waiting to get the car on MS before I bother setting them up.
- Ti valve springs and diff bushings sitting in the garage waiting to go in - missed shift to 4th coming out of the corkscrew at MRLS last October had me chasing over-rev protection and a little less drivetrain movement.
- I've been racing the Pikes Peak International Raceway Time Attack series. For any of you Colorado folk, these are awesome events and wayyyy more fun than SCCA autox, despite the similar format. Faster tracks, more track area available, fewer cones. I'm in RWD A with the 245s and can add another 100whp or so and stay in class. Might have to make something happen to hold me over until I get that sweet sweet EFR, but it's fun racing at stock power. Been creeping up in the results each event, hoping to snag a top 10 spot at the next race. We'll see.
Now here's a dickton of photos that were taken between now and my last post in this thread.
05-31-2016, 06:38 PM
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The small one is an NB1 thrust washer, the large one is an NB2.
