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Crap, a full month since the last post? Wow, time flies.
I'm off to the tuner in the morning. Jei at Blacktrax got the nod and I'm excited to see the results. I had hoped to have some more time to drive it beforehand, but all I've gotten is a couple of very short blasts on my street and the one adjacent. Which is good because on the last one I ran out of gas. Oops. Thank goodness for kind neighbors. I fixed a parameter issue with the Subaru pedal that was screwing the DBW up - apparently this pedal shows very nearly 5v at WOT, instead of "almost but clearly not 5v". A simple phone call to Haltech got me sorted - have I mentioned how nice it is to have that sort of support just a phone call away?
I'm a bit apprehensive about the dyno day, but I'm just going to "send it". I scheduled this appointment back in early January thinking it would give me plenty of time to get everything buttoned up. It's not as buttoned as I would like, but I'm hoping that my level of neurosis means it's adequate. I didn't get the new suspension aligned, I still need to put on the fenders and nose.
I can't seem to get good pressure out of the ABS system, which is concerning. I spent the better part of the day screwing with this and ... I'm at a loss. I did eventually get some bubbles out, but that only gave me a firm pedal for a few applications, then it went right back to the floor. I can see the pressure sensors reading good pressure, but after that one of them falls off to almost nothing, then the other one slowly falls off too, with no release of the pedal. There's no leak, so I'm wondering if maybe I have a bad master?
Hopefully I'll have a dyno sheet tomorrow, but for tonite, here's a picture of the car on the ground, waiting to be tuned.
I can't seem to get good pressure out of the ABS system, which is concerning. I spent the better part of the day screwing with this and ... I'm at a loss. I did eventually get some bubbles out, but that only gave me a firm pedal for a few applications, then it went right back to the floor. I can see the pressure sensors reading good pressure, but after that one of them falls off to almost nothing, then the other one slowly falls off too, with no release of the pedal. There's no leak, so I'm wondering if maybe I have a bad master?
Might be a dumb question, but did you run the bleed procedures? My pedal was sponge soft until I ran through the bleed process in INPA for each corner.
Might be a dumb question, but did you run the bleed procedures? My pedal was sponge soft until I ran through the bleed process in INPA for each corner.
I've run them repeatedly using the scan tool that the MK60 Facebook group recommended, but not through INPA. After the dyno, I'll go through the hell of installing that crap software and see if it helps. To be honest, the instructions on the scan tool suck, but it's definitely doing something similar to what INPA did.
Originally Posted by Panici
Are you losing any brake fluid? Could be an internal leak at the master, or air stuck in the ABS box.
That engine looks right at home in a Miata engine bay. Lots of room for activities!
Not losing any fluid, which is really annoying. How did it go from building pressure just fine after one round of bleeding to going right to the floor after a couple more pedal applications???
There's lots of room in the engine bay in every dimension except vertically. I had to install 1/4" subframe spacers to get the hood to fit...
Looks about spot on for a Z3 on 93.
Not a ton of spots for oil to leak back there. If it's from the top it's the valve cover or plug seals(these can be installed reversed and will leak everywhere... Ask me how I know)
Down low is just the oil pan. I'm still fighting wheeping at the rear drain plug after trying several different solutions.
Yesterday I finally finished bleeding the brakes after swapping the master. I now have excellent pedal pressure. I still hate brake fluid.
This week I also replaced the gaskets at each end of the exhaust crossover with Remflex graphite ones. I also replaced the nuts on those bolts with copper-clad locking versions. Hopefully that ends the exhaust leaks.
Today I’m doing the alignment. I am not having fun. I spent a couple hours cursing at a rear wheel because I was getting the exact opposite result of what I expected. Turns out I was interpreting the results incorrectly. I measured from the front of the wheel to the string and no matter how much toe out I tried to dial in, the front measurement was smaller than the rear one, which my mind turned into “toe in” because … I don’t know. Anyhow. I figured it out, eventually. And then took a break, had some dinner, and will go deal with this **** again.
I’ll be ready for the season opener on Saturday. I’m excited.
This week I also replaced the gaskets at each end of the exhaust crossover with Remflex graphite ones. I also replaced the nuts on those bolts with copper-clad locking versions. Hopefully that ends the exhaust leaks.
I don't suppose you happen to have any links for the gaskets/nuts? I'm literally installing my DP/crossover.
Did you do anything to add support to the crossover? I've read that people end up with cracks, and I'm kinda shocked at how it has none at all, especially on the driver's side. But I've been trying to figure out where to add the support and there aren't any particularly great options. I'm looking at building a bracket off the lower-driver-side bellhousing bolt, which is where my old Maxxim Works header had a support...
Did you do anything to add support to the crossover? I've read that people end up with cracks, and I'm kinda shocked at how it has none at all, especially on the driver's side. But I've been trying to figure out where to add the support and there aren't any particularly great options. I'm looking at building a bracket off the lower-driver-side bellhousing bolt, which is where my old Maxxim Works header had a support...
I actually cut the support off - my kit is an older one from fall of 2020, which had a support going right to that bellhousing bolt. If you hit something with the crossover pipe, you'd end up tearing the bracket off the pipe and creating a hole in your exhaust.
I actually cut the support off - my kit is an older one from fall of 2020, which had a support going right to that bellhousing bolt. If you hit something with the crossover pipe, you'd end up tearing the bracket off the pipe and creating a hole in your exhaust.
Oh wow. Thanks for the context. Was there a rubber exhaust hangar in that setup? I’m making my own exhaust. Where is your first exhaust hangar? It seems like it needs *something* to support the front of the exhaust on the driver side. That’s a really big lever arm on the downpipe. Doesn’t take a lot of force to flex the crossover/downpipe, so I’m worried about it cracking welds easily.
Oh wow. Thanks for the context. Was there a rubber exhaust hangar in that setup? I’m making my own exhaust. Where is your first exhaust hangar? It seems like it needs *something* to support the front of the exhaust on the driver side. That’s a really big lever arm on the downpipe. Doesn’t take a lot of force to flex the crossover/downpipe, so I’m worried about it cracking welds easily.
There was a silicone-ish bushing around the bellhousing bolt. I don't recall where my first exhaust hanger is, I'd have to look. I think it's at the front of the first exhaust section.
With my downpipe/crossover bolted up tight, there's no flex. Those are four M8 bolts holding the pipe to the head, going through a thick stainless flange. It's a pretty solid system until the flex coupler.
This is one topic where I decided to stop overthinking things and just do what everyone else has done. Progress over perfection.
edited to add: take a look at pp. 54 of the installation guide and you can see the bracket that used to be included on the crossover pipe. It bolts to the transmission where the rightmost red arrow is pointing.
I made it out for the first NASA NorCal event of the season and finally got some seat time. Initial bugs were as follows:
Failed to test kill switch with engine running. Kill switch did not kill the running engine. Quick trackside fix to de-pin a wire from the bulkhead connector and insert into kill-switch connector, then repurpose the ethanol sensor input into a kill-switch input on the Haltech. Embarrassing, but simple fix.
Gas tank vent tube exited below the gas tank. I filled the tank to the top before my first session and had an intense gas smell inside the (open) cockpit. I came in after a few laps due to the smell and making a couple mistakes from being braindead. I pulled the hose, trimmed it short, and re-routed to make sure the end was above the top of the tank.
Set the front bar too stiff, resulting in tractor-like understeer (plowing all over the place). Easy fix. My WAG on initial settings for the Xidas was pretty close, I dialed the last bit of understeer out with a couple extra clicks in the rear. Setup is now good enough for lapping.
Brake pedal was ... crap. Getting it onto the trailer before the event, they engaged close to the floor and felt like crap. I bled them (again) in the paddock and with the car in the air, it felt great and was at the right height. Out on the track, the pedal again went nearly to the floor and felt like crap. But they worked. I could definitely feel the MK60 working its magic in the shifting cold/damp/drying conditions. This needs more work.
Throttle pedal height is not conducive to heel-toe. Once I sort out the brake issue, this should be better, but it will require attention. Right now the brake engages so low that I cannot reach "up" far enough with my foot to engage the throttle.
I was slow. Intentionally, methodically slow. I'm in HPDE3, so all I did was drive the line. I spun the car twice, once by letting my mind wander and not reacting quickly enough when I lost rear traction, once when I found myself in the wrong gear and chose the absolute wrong moment to downshift. Silly mistakes, but considering I haven't been on track in two years, I'm trying to forgive myself. On the upside, I found a rhythm again in 8/9/10 that really reminded me that Sonoma can be a fun track. I wasn't actually the slowest car out there, which was good, and I was happy to let everyone pass me. Without the two silly spins, I would have considered it a complete success.
As to the power ... wow. I skipped the first three sessions on Saturday because they were either rainy, or the car wasn't ready (I was doing Tech/Impound things). I went out for my first session, which was on a cool, damp track, and thought to myself "do not spin the car entering the hot pits". I made that turn ok, then got on the gas in second just like I would have with the old VVT engine. I immediately lost traction and the back end started dancing. Whoops! I'm comfortable saying there's plenty of power right now. I didn't really give it the full beans or bounce off the rev-limiter, but I can tell this is going to be fun!
Next steps:
I absolutely need to figure out what the hell is up with these brakes. I'm pretty sure there must still be air in the system somewhere. I've got a new bleeding strategy and as soon as I'm willing to deal with brake fluid again, I'll put the car up in the air and see what comes out.
In the category of distractions that are probably not worth the effort, I was speaking with a top-notch builder/tuner about the MK60 and they encouraged me to add the steering angle sensor and get it communicating with the ABS brain. So for $30, I bought a used sensor and found a home for it between the steering column and the quick-release hub. I milled out a little piece that engages with two notches on the sensor and two notches on the hub. Now I just need to create a part to hold the sensor to the steering column. And then create a little gizmo that'll pretend to be an E46 instrument cluster and send out some CAN bus messages to get the system running.
BMW steering angle sensor (aka LWS or LEW, I think). Note the two notches at approximately 12 and 6. I did turn up a bushing to go from the 19mm OD of the steering shaft to the ~25mm inner bore of the sensor. Note that the inside bore of the sensor is slightly tapered, narrower at this end. This piece of aluminum engages with the two notches in the sensor and connects them to two notches on the back of the quick-release hub. There's about 3mm of space between the hub and the sensor. Here you can see the two notches on the back of this steering hub adapter doohickey.
Two more track days in the bag. Short summary of the K-swap:
1) Awesome.
2) Will shake anything and everything loose.
So far, I've loosened:
1) Three out of four bolts holding top half of the transmission shift turret, resulting in a sudden inability to shift into any gear. Shorts remained clean.
2) Exhaust manifold to head bolts, resulting in leaking gasket, causing nearby drivers to dampen shorts when I lift off the throttle.
3) Number one coil pack bolt, MAP sensor bolt, various other ancillaries. Shorts unimpressed.
4) Fuel rail bolt, resulting in pressurized fuel leak at speed entering T2 at Sonoma. Shorts unavailable for comment.
5) Nut on the starter feed lug. Shorts still missing from incident #4.
But seriously folks, when you do a K-swap, put blue loctite on everything. EVERYTHING.
This thing is a barrel of monkeys. Power level is fun and while I kept my eye on oil temps during the 100F weekend at Thunderhill, even without an oil cooler they were never more than 240. Coolant temperatures are uninteresting. Footwell doesn't heat up like it did with the Miata engine and header.
It took some very thorough re-bleeding, but the brake pedal feel is now excellent.
The eBay re-man'd alternator shat the bed at the last event, later diagnosed as a bad voltage regulator. Less than 16 hours of run time. The most difficult part of the trackside swap was feeding the replacement back in behind the catch-can. I really appreciated the auto-tensioner.
I really despise the NB 6-speed. Hitting 5th while sitting in the garage is no problem. Finding it on the track is a crapshoot. I've definitely over-rev'd the engine multiple times at this point. Thanks Honda, for not immediately turning into a grenade. I tried the IRP shifter based on input from a friend and trying their car in the paddock. It's better than the MiataRoadster one, but still not the answer. I'm planning a small modification that will hopefully make things easier. More soon.
That's it. It's a fun car with some teething problems, only one of which has been scary. I was very lucky that didn't catch fire!
You know what's fun? Taking a propane torch to a brand-new and expensive part. Thankfully all I needed was to break free the thread lock used on the IRP shifter, but it was still not my favorite moment.
The problem I've been having is finding 5th gear on the NB 6-speed with the car in motion. It seems easy enough to find when sitting still, but I think I have maybe a 1:3 chance on the track. And that's an improvement from around 1:6 on my first outing.
The IRP shifter is a very nice piece, but didn't solve my problem. It uses set-screws to limit the left-right motion but because of the placement of reverse to the right of the 5/6 gate, the set-screw for the right-most shift-gate must allow you to enter reverse. In other words, it doesn't limit the rightward movement to the 5/6 gate, which is what would really help me.
After some head scratching, over-thinking, distilling, and simplifying, I came up with a solution that doesn't permanently modify the IRP shifter and cost approximately $37 using parts from McMaster (shipping not included).
I simply removed the M4 set screw that holds in the 8mm pin that the set screws bump against, removed the pin, and replaced them with new parts. Heat is absolutely required as there is significant thread-lock on both the set screw and pin.
I now have a pin with a handle and ball detent that I pull back when I want to be able to shift into reverse. I used a set screw with a spring tip to take up the small amount of "slop" in the fit of the quick-release pin to the shifter body. Since I have a lathe, I actually cut a detent groove in the pin so that there's some positive location action, but this is not absolutely necessary. The spring-tip set-screw is way over-length, but there are limited choices in the M4 size.
Here's the overall view of the setup:
Here's the shifter in 1st, with the right-side set-screw hitting the pin.
Here's the shifter in 5th, with the left-side set screw hitting the pin:
And here's the pin pulled out and the shifter in reverse.
Finally, just for completeness, the shifter in 3rd:
I haven't tried it out on the track yet, but I'm feeling pretty confident that it'll be an upgrade.
Some of IRP’s options have a detent button to do exactly what you’ve made, my experience is with the bmw e36/46 chassis, I guess a lot of people hit reverse instead of 1st, but I screw it in to lock out 3-2 or 4-1 mis-shifts, so the button ends up locking out R, 1st, and 2nd. Something to look into if you want a quicker lockout release.
personally though, I’ve found the IRP products are not up for Motorsports applications. The list of failures and issues I’ve had with the dozen or so bmw/miata shifters I’ve installed and maintained is extensive. Enjoy it while it works, but the second it starts giving you issues, ditch it for a Miata roadster or stock shifter.
Some of IRP’s options have a detent button to do exactly what you’ve made, my experience is with the bmw e36/46 chassis, I guess a lot of people hit reverse instead of 1st, but I screw it in to lock out 3-2 or 4-1 mis-shifts, so the button ends up locking out R, 1st, and 2nd. Something to look into if you want a quicker lockout release.
personally though, I’ve found the IRP products are not up for Motorsports applications. The list of failures and issues I’ve had with the dozen or so bmw/miata shifters I’ve installed and maintained is extensive. Enjoy it while it works, but the second it starts giving you issues, ditch it for a Miata roadster or stock shifter.
Thanks for the insight Curly.
I looked through their catalog and didn't find anything that looked like the right combination of parts to make a shifter with a lockout lever or button. A missed opportunity. To be honest, this was a "ready, fire, aim!" purchase after a bad weekend with the Miata Roadster shifter. I'll keep that shifter on the shelf until I either fall in love with this shifter or I start to loathe it. About the only shifter I haven't tried with the 6-speed is the stock one. Of all the stupid things, ESR sent me the later shifter with the early trans.
Would you be willing to share the failures you've experienced? I think one of the attractive things about the IRP, now that I have it in hand, is that it seems like other than the custom machined bits, it uses off-the-shelf hardware. I figured, perhaps incorrectly, that if any of the pivots or bearings go bad, I can replace them easily enough. I'm not a machinist, but I have enough tools and knowledge to be dangerous.
The rubber plate doesn't seal against the shifter well, especially once it wears out a little, allowing fumes and heat in. The rubber boot that is supposed to replace the stock lower boot is a round boot on a squarish/round shaft, so they don't seal well and I've had a few leak turret oil in the interior. Mid race or mid race weekend trans swaps are that much more annoying because of the one bolt that requires a wrench. Once removed, you need to brake clean and scotch brite both the trans and shifter and RTV it on to seal. The side bolts and detent spring are a constant balance of too tight or too loose, allowing play when loose or binding the shifter if too tight. For the BMW shifters, the aluminum lower bracket needs to be replaced with a steel unit, and reverse lockout cable pulls out, and the lockout button sticks when down. I've had one miata shaft snap while running P2 at laguna, and I've had two of the tiny set screws that holds the steel insert into the bottom of the aluminum shift shaft come loose, which not only causes shifting issues, it also enlarges the hole and you need to replace the entire shift shaft.
For street driving, it makes WAAAY to much noise since it's solid mounted to the trans vs the nylon/delrin bushings on a stock/MR shifter. For racecars, this solid mounting causes a lot of the above loose screws. While enduro racing one, I've had hours of experience with stock, then IRP, then MR. IRP was probably double the missed shifts as stock or MR. Honestly the MR shifter feels great, but it's no better than a rebuilt stock unit.
That being said, I cut, drilled, and tapped both the ruined shafts and they make great ***** on my MR shifter.
02-15-2023, 01:24 AM
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