The Portabull LFX Build
 

I want to do a different type of build thread.

There aren't a lot of LFX builds - yet - that are well documented. I've spent a large amount of time reading V8 threads to try and get a handle on the fabrication and gotchas, as well as try and keep a strong record of parts used and money spent.

So - rather than a "today we did this" update, I've been taking pictures throughout the build and want to create chapters covering each system as they get completed. When you're doing such a large build like this, there's always something to work on - even if you're missing a part for the cooling system, you can spend the day working on the electrical instead. And eventually it'll all get done.

And rather than try and stretch this build out while waiting for things to get completed - this build has already been ongoing for 10 months.

So.. let's begin with a small intro. This is my dads (portabull) car.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451808721

This is the victim. Originally bought in 2007 off craigslist for $1500 with crap paint, busted 1st gear, carpet infused with dog hair. We fixed those issues eventually, then he inherited my JRSC supercharger when I went turbo. My brother would occasionally borrow the car while his was getting worked on.. and he didn't have much mechanical sympathy. It once overheated so badly that I broke the sparkplug off in the head with a 3ft breaker bar (but as I had upgraded to a 99 head in my turbo miata, we rebuilt my old 94 head and tossed it in). We set that as a goal - have this car limp over the 300k finish line, then get completely rebuilt for a solid JRSC rebuild. Refreshed bottom end, 99 head, upgraded injectors (no more rising rate FPR for additional fuel), mspnp, 4-2-1 header.

It crossed 300k. Then the speedo cable snapped. Then my brother's Xterra managed to shave all the syncro teeth off of first gear, so once again, he borrowed the miata.

And.. well..

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451808721
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451808721
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4...2/IMG_7105.JPG

Engine finally had enough. It started knocking and we tried to drive it the 50 miles to our workspace - but the engine locked up on the way and we had to grab a uhaul.

About this time the LFX kit was announced - I let my dad know about it, and we decided to go for it. 325hp, minimal engine bay modifications, similar weight to the BP engine, modern DOHC with VVT and direct injection? That's a bit nicer than 30 year old engine design.

Now the plan was a bit ambitious.. buy the parts, install the engine, get it running by the v8roadsters meet at the Mitty. Just under 2 months from our order in February to gather parts and get it running for the Mitty at the end of April. We'd have to sacrifice a lot of functionality - just shoehorn the engine in and get it on the road.

Needless to say.. that didn't happen.

So our current status, some 10 months later - We're close to done. Hopefully the engine will crank in the next couple of weeks. Along the way we've upgraded... well, pretty much everything. I might have made a mistake in showing my dad the Turbo Tom LS3 on youtube and Jeffbucc's build thread here. Stuff we've done that I probably won't cover how to...

- Control arms painted, new IL Motorsports bushings all around
- NA6 dash covered in leather and installed in NA8
- Electric windows installed with delrin window bushings
- ABS-Backed doorcards with microsuede covering + revlimiter door pulls
- Cappuchino washer install
- Stereo (woo!)

We're also lucky enough to have Summit Racing in our backyard (well, an hour away-ish) and waaay too many Harbor Freight tools. The local pull-a-part even occasionally has a miata, and there's another pick-n-pull that has newer cars (minus driveline) that I've scavenged for GM bits and pieces.

Build goals:

A streetable LFX. Working power steering, heat, air conditioning. Civilized enough for my non-trackday-going retiree father, fast enough to put a grin on our faces.

And note.. I have a few hundred photos saved. I might end up writing a few todo's in the thread as I try and find the picture or take a new picture if it's warranted. And I have a few things that are 99% done that I can write about (fuel, rear end, body modifications, steering) and some things that are 20% done (electrics, coolant plumbing, ECU tuning) that I'll be waiting to write about. Hopefully I won't have to go back and correct myself too much on what I have written about.

But to put it into perspective.. This is where we're at right now.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451808721
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...2/IMG_7212.JPG

So.. lets begin with.. hunting down a driveline.

There are a couple of decisions to made for parts. First, of course, is which differential - Ford or Getrag. Then what ratio. As this was going to be a mostly daily car, a Getrag 3.23 was decided on. We have a local pick n pull that pulls the engine out and puts the rest of the carcass out, so I tried hunting there for a few days to find the right part number and option code. Turns out, that's easier said than done. Trying to find the option/RPO code by VIN requires a subscription for most people.. soo.. that ended up being a crapshoot. But I found one local for $300 out of a cadillac SRX.

MV5 vs MV7 - I think this has been hashed out quite well in https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...2/#post1246673
We found an MV7 from LKQ, shipped to our front door for $1097.

Your major resource for hunting down a driveline is going to be on car-part.com.The goal was to find an engine within day-trip distance so I can inspect it and verify it has all the bracketry and accessories, with less than 15k miles. Basically something mint and local-ish. I found one and went to go look at it - looking up directions to the yard I noticed they had 1.1 stars on Google - now I don't usually pay too much attention to those ratings, but 20 minutes from the yard I get a call that the oil pan was cracked. And when I get there, no one knows anything. The salesman I've been talking to is missing and the mechanics mulling around are all pissed off because their parts are missing / aren't ready, and they've already been waiting there for three hours. It was, indeed, a 1.1 star yard. So I bailed.

I spent more time on the phone - my script with the yards usually goes like this.

"Hi, I'm looking for a 2012+ Camaro V6 engine. I saw you have in stock on car-part.com. Is it still available? *"
* lesson learned - car-part.com's database isn't live. I've noticed it tends to update twice a week.
"I'm looking to do an engine swap into a miata. Can I get all the accessories with it as well? *"
* lesson learned - since mostly mechanics are searching for cores to replace a busted engine with, accessories are usually stripped off and sold seperately. Wiring harnesses aren't a big deal and can be bought new from GM for $200, and they make pulling an engine much faster when you can cut 'em out.
"When can I come take a look at it? *"
* lesson learned - Sometimes the engine is already stripped and palleted, waiting on the warehouse shelf - these usually don't have the accessories. Some times they're still in the car on the yard, waiting for a buyer to pull whatever part is needed. The "Good" yards I've called at this point will usually have a salesman take my information and go inspect the engine himself, giving me a call back an hour or two later. This is usually the heartbreaker moment - when they discover that the impact has cracked the oil pan, or there was an engine bay fire, or the intake manifold is cracked and there's water in the cylinder (yes, all these things I've actually heard). If it's still in the car, though, they'll need a day or two to have the engine pulled and palleted.

The LFX design makes this a little bit worse. One of the engine mounts is integrated into the oil pan, so a hard shunt will crack the pan. This might not be the end of your hunt yet - if you're buying a shortened oilpan from v8roadsters, they modify new pans from GM.

That said - I found an engine, of all places.. from v8roadsters. They had one for a racecar project that they decided they wouldn't be able to get to this year. So.. snatched that up from them for ~2k. 2012 engine with only 7k miles on it. Woohoo.

Manual Transmission vs Automatic - the engines are the same. The wiring harnesses are not. I've (hopefully) modified the automatic wiring harness to operate as a manual harness fairly simply. I'll be covering this once I get to the wiring.

To do an automatic to manual conversion, the biggest pain in the ass is going to be finding a flywheel. The LFX uses a dual mass flywheel. I'm not a fan. The previous "GM High Function engine", the LLT, uses a single mass flywheel and quite frankly may work just fine. While I was hunting parts there weren't any replacement flywheels available, and cost a pretty penny (iirc, +$500) new from GM. I eventually found one on car-part $250 with a pressure plate and clutch. GM dealers apparently keep the clutch disc in stock for $150(?). Once we received the disc, it appeared to be in pretty good condition, and figured that an OK clutch from a car that weighs 3750lbs ought to work just fine with roughly half the weight.

Our MV7 from the great white north had it's shifter cut off. It's very similar to the TR6060 shifter, but carries a different part number. Once again - car-part.com - and found one for $150 (oddly enough, same place I snagged the clutch from a few months prior). Unfortunately the shifter is almost fully aluminum, meaning we couldn't weld it - but v8roadsters gave us a fairly quick turnaround and modified it for $125. That said, if you have to find one.. I'm almost positive that the TR6060 and AY6 are identical-enough after modification.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451809494
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psvaanhg2d.jpg
<stolen image from carnut>

Bolts - hey, this is kinda important. Three times we got the wrong flywheel bolts - kept giving us flex plate bolts. The proper bolts are allen head, not hex head. Oh - and the flywheel bolts aren't evenly spaced. That was a few minutes of confusion and cursing while holding a 30lb flywheel.

<todo - I have a receipt around here to verify>
Crank to Flywheel - 11569956, 8x req(?)
Pressure plate to flywheel - 11611397, 6x req
Engine to Flywheel cover plate, probably won't come with engine - 24222918
Starter bolts - 11588740
Bellhousing bolts - 11515770, 11 req(?)

Engine bay modifications:

For the LFX you're basically following the same instructions as the V8, except you won't need to widen the transmission tunnel.

You'll need a few things.
1. A crapload of cutting discs.
2. A good respirator. Those crapload of cutting discs will have you blowing black snot for days.
3. A heavy wire wheel. Seam sealer is pretty gummy and gets everywhere, and you'll need a clear view of the spotwelds for the..
4. Spot weld cutters. Turbo Tom has a really nice kit in his build. I'm not sponsored by Summit or Carl's Jr. so I used 2 from Summit and a few more from Harbor freight. I'd say 5 is a fair number.
5. A plasma cutter. If you didn't want one before, you'll want one after the 20th disc and the 15th time you've reset the air compressor after it's tripped a breaker (sidenote: replaced the compressor starter capacitors, works like a champ now).

So - begin by masking up the holes, blasting the sealer everywhere, and lay down a line extending the engine bay sides back to the firewall.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

Lay down a few cuts, break out the hammer after the last cutting disc wears out and...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

The cheap spotweld cutters I used didn't cut the entire weld, just most of it. Try and hit the exact center of the spotweld with a centerpunch, drill it with a small drillbit maybe 1mm deep, just enough to give the spotweld cutter some tooth.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

The smaller the piece of metal, the easier it'll be to pry off the body and kiss the high spots with an angle grinder.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

Here, you can see where I made a mistake. If I had left a little more metal I might have been able to stretch it a little easier and wouldn't have had to fill the crack. You're trying to make the firewall square.

To do that.. break out the BFH.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

After that stick the reinforcement pieces in, tack weld, weld, fill cracks, load it up in seam sealer.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

And paint..

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

Oh wait.. don't paint yet.. there's a few mods yet to make. (d0h).

The drivers side head is longer and needs some clearance against the firewall. First, find the spot you need to hit by putting the engine in the subframe, lowering the body onto it, marking it, and then smacking the crap out of it.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

Those are the throttle body, cruise control, and speedometer holes. Yes, the heater core holes are blocked behind the head. If you want to close them up with sheetmetal, now would be the time (before you deform the crap out of this spot).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

Note: Summit Chassis Paint is really pretty damn good stuff (Another tip from TurboTom). It's damn glossy and damn black and makes it a real pain in the ass to photograph anything because it sucks all the light. We had a broken speedometer cable we closed the firewall hole with. Ordered 2 cruise control blanking grommets (Mazda B09241661, $4.70 apiece) and 2 1.25in body plugs (Summit SFT-0186) for the heater core. That said - I think it'd be easier to weld in some 18ga before you beat the crap out of this.

And then paint.

Oh.. wait.. before you pull the engine out again.. there are a few places along the engine bay you'll need to soften the lip. Now would be a good time to mark these..

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

At the power steering pump, this'll prevent the ATF hose from chafing.

The exhaust might also be a good place - so far, we haven't needed to.. but it's really hard to show just how tight the clearances are. This may give you a small idea - the exhaust is slightly below the rail.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

I also recommend removing (nearly) as much as possible from the passenger side without compromising the top seam. This area gets *very* busy later on, and every extra mm helps. Here's a quick preview. We split a piece of AN-6 aluminum tubing to help prevent chafing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

Subscribed. This looks like a great build. Appreciate the detail.

Dup

Thanks for the post, looks like you're running a few weeks ahead of our LFX build that started in October.

Couple hopefully quick questions based on what you've run into:

What gas pedal are you using? We started with a 2015 v6 camaro pedal...very stiff and a little too much angle to the left. I ordered a GM Performance LS3 conversion pedal, hoping that with the same connector it would work and would be a better option since the V8 guys seem to have good luck with the positioning of this pedal.

Are you using factory modified downpipes or the exhaust from v8r?

Have you sorted out AC yet, I've found a supplier that makes LS2/3 conversion blocks that mate to the compressor with threaded fittings after the block. With rough measurements, looks like this might fit our compressors.

Curious what you're doing with the purge solenoid on the passenger side of the intake...need to call v8r and see if they program this out of the ecu, otherwise I guess we can connect it back to the factory setup back near the gas tank?

Looks like you're using the heater core reroute, any issues running the heater core lines behind the heater core box and evaporator box and then through the firewall?

Over the Christmas to New Years break, got the cage done and mounted the getrag and now midway through a control arm bushing refresh (to anyone thinking about doing this, what a PITA).

Basically running out of things to do. Waiting on the ecu tune, downpipes, wiring harness, heater core reroute, cooling system, axles, and fuel system from v8r.

Hoping for startup in late January, testing in Feb, and track ready beginning of March.

Best of luck to you on your build and thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide on the questions (feel free to let me know if there's anything you're curious about from our end too.

Here are a couple pics from our build.

Apologies for the double photo upload, had issues with the post submtting.

Great thread. It's good to see detailed info on this swap. Have you figured out what to do for your hood yet?

heh.. trying to fast forward through the build.. so..

Gas pedal - came with the engine and ecu, so probably a 2012. I'll throw it up as the next chapter (only took an afternoon to build).

Exhaust - We're hoping to do the same as carnut - toss the car to Jason at enthuza (he's an hour away from us), have him weld us up some. For the moment, we've put a gigantic dimple in the drivers side stub that came with the engine (cats were plasma'd off, we cleaned it up with the band saw) that will just barely clear the steering shaft. Hopefully this'll allow us to drive the car up and off the trailer, verify our HPTuners, make sure the engine runs, etc, before we toss it to Enthuza.

A/C - not yet sorted. I was hoping to retain the stock hardlines, but they won't clear the alternator. I think I might have some busted up ones that I might try bending to see how malleable it is, but that's low priority for the moment. I also want to take another jaunt through the junkyard and see if there's something I can make work from another mazda.

Purge solenoid - currently disconnected. I don't see much purpose in running it without a charcoal canister.

Heater core reroute - I got this idea from the yellow submarine build -http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1349121-yellow-submarine-goes-nuclear-ls2-t56-miata.html - and it's different than the kit v8roadster sells. That said, I do have love for high quality components like thermoplastic clamps and vibrant silicon hoses. But we used 5/8ths-10AN aluminum pipe and bent it. It'll be a chapter once I finish up the cooling. Right now we've got an interference between the water pump inlet and the radiator, I'm ordering a LF3 water pump inlet tomorrow.

Hood - This might be a chapter of itself, plus I want to give measurements. We managed to snag 2 extra hoods from pull a part, but ended up pretty much nailing it on the first one. We took a HF vibrating cutting tool and trimmed as much plastic off the intake manifold as possible. Then air hammer with a leather bag full of shot, more hammers, custom hammers, english wheel and eventually..

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451893071
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451893071
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451893071
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451893071

But yeah, it clears, and is subtle but not garish. Not too bad for a $30 hood. And if need be, we can always build version 2.

Pedals

The LFX (and LS3) are drive by wire. My friends have described these as kinda the ultimate killjoys for acceleration - put your foot on the floor and it starts rocketing off and then.. just.. stops.. because CAFE dictates that you can't have too much fun. We've picked up the Vitesse Throttle Controller to turn the loud pedal back up to 11. That's an easy install though.

A quick word on wiring - the majority of the harness is Delphi GT150 connectors. The connector for the drive by wire pedal is a six cavity female. They pretty much don't exist outside of drive by wire connectors - so one of these connectors cost $20 on ebay.

Local pick n pull has a few cars with 'em. $2 a pop.

Anyway - onto the pedal box modifications.

First - the pedals are pretty close in size.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451896597

So a quick cut with the die grinder and we have a new pedal cover. Cut a groove in the top plastic to fit the lip of the miata pedal, some JB Weld, and a drywall screw heated with a torch to melt the plastic of the DBW pedal.. and we've got a stock looking pedal.

Positioning the pedal was fairly straight forward. The pedal height (from the firewall) is almost the same as the stock, the hinge point is *very* close. Took the pedal out of the hinge, made a few cuts, clamped the bracket in the vice to unfold it..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q...424_170152.jpg
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451896597

From there we pulled a piece of scrap metal out of the pile, cut it to size, welded it to the unfolded pedal point, drilled some holes...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451896597

voila.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451896597

I ran a rennenmetal big pedal for years on my turbo car, so a gas pedal close to the brake for me.. I actually like for easy heel/toe. My dad decided to fill the holes and redrill them to angle the pedal closer to stock.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451896597

I do seem to recall there was a stud on the firewall that'll need to be ground down for the new pedal assembly to fit.

The wilwood master cylinder install.. I don't think I have any photos of this. We did grab the v8roadsters kit for this which includes a firewall adapter. The miata has studs at 2 and and 8 positions, whereas the wilwood is 12 and 6. The opening in the firewall needs to be opened up a little bit with the die grinder.

The clutch also has a very large switch that works as the starter interlock system - it's a 12ga wire that goes straight from the key to the clutch to the underhood fusebox and then to the starter solenoid. The stock clutch rod has a piece of bracketry that depresses the switch that the wilwood clutch doesn't have. Instead of trying to integrate the switch, we bypassed this switch alltogether by splicing the wires with a big ol butt connector. We also couldn't fit the rubber boot of the wilwood back through the firewall. Hopefully it doesn't leak.

quick sidenote: The LFX ECM uses a relay on the starter solenoid that's controlled by the ecm. I *think* (not positive) the camaro uses autostop at red lights. Either way - the starter is controlled by the ECM / body module. We're going to be bypassing this, connecting the miata's interlock system directly to the 14ga starter solenoid wire fused with a <todo.. look up fuse size..>.

Fuel system

Fuel system is identical to V8's. The corvette uses a combo fuel pressure regulator and fuel filter that raises the pressure up to 58psi (up from the miata's 43.5psi). This setup using the C5 vette's filter is so common, when I went to pick up AN fittings from Summit the salesman had all the part numbers saved in his notebook.

A bunch of the V8 guys run straight braided hose through the transmission tunnel. And a few of those guys complain about smelling gas after a few years. Well, we have harbor freight 3/8ths hose bender.. so AN6 hardline (almost) all the way.

First off - we upgraded the fuel pump from a 190lph walbro we used while it was supercharged to a 255lph from 949. There are two ways to adapt the fuel pump outputs on the tank - either a 5/16 compression fitting or a russell EFI fitting (RUS-644110). The EFI fittings are pretty cool, they slip over the hose barb. I didn't know about them, instead opting to cut off the barb and use the compression fitting.

One quick tip - cut off a piece of tubing and tape them to the opening of the fuel tank. This'll give you a visual reference of the angle the pipes need to meet at. Also helps to label the output and return line so you don't have to keep looking at the manual.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451901605

After that, mount the wix filter to the body. We bent the stock bracket on the filter to allow us to clock it so the lines wouldn't have to cross, and then rebent it to tighten it against the filter. With the lines bent, we put a AN6 cap over the output. This allowed us to run the fuel pump off a dewalt battery and put pressure on the system to check for leaks.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451901605

Routing the tubing, we decided the stock-ish routing would be best, since the frame rail protects the lines to a certain extent. Since we're getting rid of the PPF we need to be mindful of how we're going to route the battery cables as well. So I made some brackets that would hold the ground cable (we're upgrading it to 2ga) and tubing with insulated clamps. Just a piece of flat, drilled and tapped with M6x1.0 threaded rod, welded from the backside. These will hang off the frame rails. If I had to do it over again, I'd use slightly wider flat stock so I could put a 3rd stud in that will hold the brake line on the inside ahead of the frame rail bolt hole.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451901463

End result - very happy with this. Used a 1/4in insulated clamp in the side of the frame rail reinforcement for the brake line.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451901463

In the engine bay - cut a piece of aluminum stock and used a 45 degree AN6 bulkhead fitting to provide a final hardpoint for the fuel line.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451901463

From there - RUS-644120 3/8ths to AN6 EFI fitting on the LFX fuel rail and a nylon braided hose to allow for engine rocking.

Here's a pretty complete list of all the fittings used:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451901463

Thank you very much, super helpful.

Lots of props... wait... cats given - thanks for such a well thought and made project.

Thanks from me also, as I am helping 1999LFX with his build and Co-Driving.

Looks like a good job so far. I'm currently collecting parts and should have everything soon

Nice work! How much did you have to push the heater inlet/outlets on the fire wall? 1/4 inch? I was thinking about cutting it out and welding in a strip of sheet metal to recess the ports.

More like 3/4in to 1-1/4in. The driver side head sits further back than the passenger side (you know, because it's a V6).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451816290

You can see a disconnected wiring connector at the bottom, you can either extend that to go around the outside of the head or bang enough clearance for it to fit. And in this photo before the pocket was created, the subframe bolts wouldn't line up (engine was tilted forward slightly).

We have our front subframe on a cart and can lower the body down - doing so, you'll need to position the subframe 1-2 inches in front of the subframe studs on the body in the wheelwell. Once the body is level with the subframe studs, the subframe will be pushed back into the pocket and lowered the rest of the way. It's a tight fit, but I think we only had to test fit it 2-3 times.

Random Washers
 

With work today, missed my opportunity to call V8r, and with no instructions...wondering where these two washers that they provided with the engine mounting kit go? Haven't seemed to need them yet when test fitting the engine, but haven't hung the front suspension yet either. With the holiday weekend, was hoping to put the drivetrain back in once and for all.

Thanks,


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1452903790

Those shim between the rearmost subframe bolt holes and body.

Yes^
Per Shandelle "Very back of the subframe mounting points between the sub and uni-body"

Thanks guys, appreciate it.

This is a terrific build and one many will be following for sure, It will help me make up my mind as whether for the Ford Duratec, or this GM LLT/LFX route. I found an outfit in California that makes new harnesses for most newer Chevys they are called HotRodHarness in my search for various components to build a price list. They run around the $400+ for new harness with your plugs.

FWIW the efi fuel connectors don't work with NA fuel rails.

I'm not so sure about that - there's a push-lock AN adapter for the NB that sucked, and that put a lot of FUD about the fittings. I've seen threads where people have complained, and when you look up the PN they used (if they mention it) they've used a 3/8ths instead of a 5/16ths adapter.

I need to throw together another update. We just finished up the cooling system (well, once the final radiator hose gets here), fabricated the ECU mount today, which means I can finally marry the miata and GM harnesses. And the hood has had a couple more hours of metalwork. And the intake is done. And the battery cables. Waiting on backordered low-pressure hose for the steering cooler.

You need the all aluminum ones. The push lock plastic ones suck.

The aluminum one threads in and works fine.

For the NA your best option is to cut and flare your hard-line.

Or run AN bulkhead connectors and skip the stock hard-line everywhere.

I don't mean to hijack another web, but help is where you find it for fuel lines


Fuel Line Question - v8 Miata Forum - Home of the v8 Miata Conversion

Man what I would give for that lift of yours! It is a SERIOUS pain to stab that LFX through the top by yourself!

Thanks for all of your help and input in your threads. It has made a world of difference on MANY occasions.

Between you and Carnut most of the basic build stuff is covered now.

I'll be watching this one, I enjoy the idea the lfx. Keep up the good work, love the detailed build.

We've had some cold weather here, and as everyone knows, busting a knuckle is thousand times worse when it's cold. And I really don't think we'd ever want to attempt this swap without a lift. Especially when you're test fitting everything multiple times, painting the underside with faux-lizardskin heatshielding, bending fuel line that needs to be checked a dozen times. Hell, I'm not sure if I even want to change brakepads without a lift anymore.

Plus you get to make stuff like this.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455334921

Those are some 4x4 fence posts cut to the width of the subframe on harbor freight dolly's. It's all screwed together with lag bolts and deck hardware - if I had to do it over again, I'd add another dolly on the front as we had a close call with the engine tipping forward without the transmission installed. But with this we could wheel the engine out of the way with relative ease. The added height of the fence posts allowed us to hit the subframe mounting points without needing to jack the subframe up while lowering the body down.

I've had a few people ask me about wiring - and I promise, I'll get to it - but it's a *major* job on this project and I want to make sure I've done it right before leading someone astray. Plus I have to grab all my notes and notebooks. The good news is that we finished up the coolant plumbing and intake, and this weekend is once again freezing, so I'll see if I can bang out a chapter.

Our todo list is now.. battery terminals, alternator wiring, ECU fusebox wiring, power steering plumbing, horns (putting in some buick horns, bye bye meep meep hello honk honk), instrument cluster, fluids, and running through everything with a torque wrench.

When you were test fitting the engine, did the left side scrape really hard or just not fit. I don't have a lift and this going to be tough with a lot of trial and error. Without a lift, the strategy will be to drop the engine in with the lower suspension cradle lowered and bring the cradle up after the engine is down. It's a headache, but I've done it before that way on 99 vette.

With all the sledge hammer engineering to the firewall, how much clearance is left on the inside to the heater core? I thought it was tight to begin with.

I don't envy you coming from the top - Carnut might be able to give you some guidance there. When we lowered the body, we had to position the engine forward of the firewall, bring the body to just above the studs near the upper control arms till they would almost touch, then push the engine back and lower the body down the rest of the way. The back of the drivers side cylinder head would touch the firewall without the pocket, and the subframe mounts weren't square (front subframe stud would meet, but the rear stud had a gap of 1/8 - 1/4in and the engine would be tilted forward by the motor mounts.)

So.. Scrape. It'll fit, but it won't fit right - I wouldn't want to run the studs up all the way.

We cut our heatercore lines and ran new aluminum lines. I'll hit this bit up in the cooling chapter.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455402836

Cujoel,
I think I recall seeing gooflophaze mention it in one of his posts but grind off as much of the inside edge of the engine bay as you can but not into the seam welds. If you are going in from the top by yourself it will make life MUCH easier to have that little extra space.

I have had the LFX in and out 3 times now and the way you described with the vette is how I have done it each time. I figure I will drop my process in your thread so others without a lift can benefit from my trial and error.

A small 4 wheel cart under the middle of the subframe and loosen the 6 bolts so the subframe is just barely attached. ( I tried just using the struts to keep the subframe in place but it turned out to be a bigger pain.)

Pull the 4 bolts that hold the NB rack so it can be lowered out of the way.

Engine on the lift and with the car on the wheels and stab the motor and trans working it slowly down and back

An additional small 4 wheel cart is a BIG help on the tail of the trans so it moves back easier.

You will hit the point where the engine will not fit between the subframe and the firewall thanks to the oil pan hitting the subframe. When you hit that point remove the 6 bolts that hold up the subframe so that it is now just resting on the cart.

jack the body up about 4-6" and the motor will slide into place.

Lower the motor to the subframe and attach the motor to the subframe. (I have tried both ways and found that having the engine mounts attached to the subframe first and then once you lower the motor into place just dropping in the 6 bolts to the motor was MUCH easier. I have thrown out many LOUD and intense profanities trying to line up those two engine mount bolts the other way.)

Lower the body back down on the subframe and bolt it up.

I think if you were to get the modified oil pan from V8R you may not need to drop the subframe but I spent the money elsewhere.

Hopefully this makes sense and it will help someone else.

Griff, so does the oil pan just fit between the cross member? and are you stiil able to clear the rack and keep the engine level and low enough? I am not concerned at all about the hood and I will remove the bracing where needed and "blister" the hood. Also, I have done the V8 install and in that case, the rear firewall area does have to be messaged a bit and trimming the edge bracing as well. I did not have to hammer much as I used a t-5 for the trans

Miles,
I have NOT been able to fit the factory pan past the rack or the subframe with the subframe bolted up. I have had to lift the body up about 4" off the subframe to get the motor to clear everything and slide back into place. Not hard to do but time consuming if you are by yourself.

I would love to know if a modified V8R pan avoids dropping the subframe because it just may make it worth it to some folks.

I find this the most interesting comment so far though:
"and the subframe mounts weren't square (front subframe stud would meet, but the rear stud had a gap of 1/8 - 1/4in and the engine would be tilted forward by the motor mounts."
My car was the exact same way and it forced me to take a 30 minute sanity break the first time I put the motor in. Seeing that you had the same issue makes me feel a bit better I guess but it appears that V8R may be off on a measurement or two.

I hope you don't mind me dropping these in here Gooflophaze. I did not plan to do another build thread for mine since you and Carnut have done such an amazing job already documenting the process with outstanding photos.

Wouldn't it be neat to have NA, Turbo, v6, and v8 power units that you could plug in for different events like that? Rear susp. too.

Griff, I have not seen the LS pan, only photos, but is is considerably longer from the LFX I would guess. They do according to photos cut a portion of the pan back to what appears to be 6-8 inches. Partly I think is because of its length plus depth. My 302 ford was cut just behind where the oil pump is located and gave good clearance. I placed my engine about 1/2 inch from the firewall and not closer. You are correct about the mounts as I made my own, and adjusted the several times in all directions to get them where I needed them to be. I am not too sure how accurate mounting the engine to the subframe approach workd out..if you are luck it might be close enough

Look forward to seeing what you use for the lower rad host from the back of the motor. I was not at all pleased with the way the factory line ran up to the front and was thinking about just bending up a flex host to go exactly where I want it. They are not the prettiest but I used them on an old V8 Jeep I built and I never had a single problem with them.

I'll write up the cooling bit tonight. It'll be a doozy.

But I can write up the oil pan real quick.

The oil pan on the LFX is the lowest point on the car, and the modified oil pan.. is really just 3/4in shorter.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

It also deletes the low oil sensor bung, and moves the oil drain plug to the other side.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

To install the pan, the engine needs to be on an engine stand. So you'll need to find some long-ish M12x1.5 (todo verify this) bolts to pop on the stand. I think I used old Xterra head bolts from my brothers car. You can see there are 3 bolts that run along the front of the pan that go to the timing cover, and to get to the middle one you'll have to pull the harmonic damper.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

We tried to sneak it past. No go. And none of our standard pullers worked (which is a shame because we have a plethora of them, just too large), so we had to run out to NAPA real quick and grab one. This one worked like a champ.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

You'll also need to pick up a new crank pulley bolt, as the bolt is torque to yield. Torque spec is 74ft/lbs, then 150 degrees. We had to wait until the transmission, brakes, and parking brakes were put back in to stop the motor from turning. The 2 piece flywheel also fought us while torquing this bolt, as you'd have to take up.. 45-60 degrees of wrench travel just taking up the slack in the clutch. With a breaker bar and jack handle slipped over as a cheater bar, I'd say I was probably putting 150ft - 200ft/lbs on the bolt. We had to disconnect the sway bar from the body to get clearance. The bolt is only $5 from GM, and it's PN 11569873.

With the bolts out, we popped the oil pan off. There are 2 slots big enough to fit a pry bar that won't mar the pan too badly.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

And finally you can look up her skirt.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

Since our engine only had 7k miles, we didn't feel any need to inspect the bearings. I wish I had gotten a picture of the faceted grinds on the crank weights. I didn't take many pictures after this as my hands were dirty from cleaning oil and scraping the old gasket material off - which is straightforward razorblades and brake clean. Pay special attention to the timing cover, as you don't want to remove too much of the gasket material where block and oil pan meet. The v8r pan came with new bolts (not really necessary) and tube of GM gasket maker.

I believe GM assembled the oil pan to the block then mounted the timing cover - because you'll have to wedge the oil pan forward to the timing cover then down to the block, making sure you'll hit the 2 alignment pins on the passenger side. This is annoying because the wedge move will scrape some of the gasket material off the timing cover face. We ended up with a small oil leak at the front I was (hopefully) successful in scabbing over with gray RTV. With everything on, we did what I was taught - or maybe mistaught - tightened all the bolts on the oil pan in an X formation to let the RTV squish, then loosed them for the RTV to set, then tightened them back down to give the RTV a more mechanical force. (Note: what I was taught - black (adhesive) RTV is torque once and done. Gray RTV is rigid and can be more mechanical). Torque spec is 89in/lbs, so just "snug".

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771
You can see the oil leak on the right side. Successfully scabbed over (I hope).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455570771

Now, things that I didn't do that I still might - see the casting dimple in the front middle? It almost touches the steering rack body. I'll have to inspect it once we drive the car some, and I might have to pull the 4 bolts for the rack and swing it out of the way to hit the nub with a die grinder. Just a smidge, you can see in the photo it's a bolt hole for the windage tray.

That sure clears up a lot, and great photos with understandable tag lines too...you should contemplate a short how-to booklet for a fee of course!!

Thanks, one of the hats I wore at my previous job was as a technical writer. I'll go ahead and borrow from that experience and say feel free to ask questions / clarifications, because the only way documentation improves is by people asking. It's also why I sprinkle "todo" throughout the writing, as eventually I'll have my notebooks beside me and I can look up the thread pitch / pn.

What are motor mounts made of? Polyurethane? Shouldn't be a lot of engine movement with those.

Works for me as I have not yet settled on which engine and years. Now that I have retired the $$ will be important. Currently looking a mid 2000s Cadillac CTS V6 with AISIN 6 speeds. Can be had for ~$2300. They appear to have the same form-fit as the LFX. Now checking into the availability of ECUs, harnesses seem not to hard to get.

Cooling System

Plumbing the LFX is a bit backwards from the miata. The LFX is reverse-flow - cold coolant enters the back of the engine, through the thermostat housing & heater core pipes, block, and exits the water pump on the front of the engine to the upper radiator hose. The back of the engine gets pretty busy with a thermostat housing right up against the firewall, along with the lower radiator and heater core hoses. The LFX also uses an expansion tank system vs the miata's recovery tank - the best description of both systems along with their advantages I found was Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world. . We'll get to that here in a moment.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

This is how much space you'll have to work with at the back of the firewall. It's tight. And you have to worry about how the hoses are going to lay on top of each other. After a lot of hmmming and huhing, seeing how the V8 guys do it, and grabbing a 5/8ths tubing bender off ebay, test fitting the a/c evaporator core to see how much room there is between it and the firewall.. we drilled some holes.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

If I had to do it over again, I don't know if drilling the outlets staggered top to bottom really made much advantage - but I might stack the holes on the outboard side. Using 45 degree adapters like v8roadsters kit (which wasn't available at the time) would have made coming off the firewall a bit easier as it's a bit recessed and tubenuts / flares like to have a direct shot onto the fitting, and it's very tricky to bend aluminum tubing without a lot of clearance. The firewall isn't very flat except for this area. I swear before I went this route I had seen a 90 degree bulkhead reducing fitting for -10 to -12, but I must have imagined it.

We tried using a HF knockout punch Knockout Punch Kit 10 Pc for the hole but.. the tool broke. So we ended up using a hole saw. The firewall was a bit thin for the bulkhead fitting so we shimmed it up with 2 washers on both sides. A -12 and -10 AN 90 degree bulkhead fitting and a straight -12 to -10 reducer on the inside (not pictured in this version).

It took a lot of wrangling getting the tube to meet up with the heater box. To make the bend around the back of the heater box we had to trim some of the plastic off. We used a tubing cutter to trim the heater core hardpipe off at the straightest part.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

To make a hose barb I found this trick - once again another cheap HF tool - 9-1/2" Wire Crimping Tool - Cut off the end and grinded it a bit thinner to fit inside the 5/8ths tubing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1456479838

The trick with the crimper-as-beader is to go slowly and make multiple passes around the tube. Practice on a piece of scrap first.

If you've installed an M-Tuned reroute, the silicone hose that comes with it is from Vibrant and you can order it in 3 foot sections from summit. It's pretty quality, so we used that to join the heater core up to the tube and gates powergrip thermoplastic clamps. As you'll see, I'm a pretty large fan of these - they give a wide band to compress and don't dig into the hose. With the tubes so close I ended up using a single clamp on both sides.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

The stock Camaro heater core tube is.. large and stupid. It exits and shoots up the side of the engine close to where the stock lower radiator hose pipe would go.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q...225_124056.jpg

Knowing that the LFX engine is used in a lot of transverse mounted engines I figured there might be a chance of finding a heater tube that would shoot straight back - and after a few hours looking through parts catalogs I found the PN 12644554 from a cadillac CTS.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

Bingo. One pipe is 5/8ths, the other is 3/4ths (-10 and -12). More vibrant hose and powergrip clamps - and we have something that looks like what V8Roadsters sells.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

This corner? It gets busy. Fuel, coolant, A/C, electrical. Vibrant hose is good stuff but some extra protection is good. We split a piece of fuel line tubing and slid it over the edge and a piece of split loom over the hose for chafing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

Inlet pipe

The stock Camaro pipe goes outside of the exhaust and exits above the alternator, which means you have to shoot it across the engine to the lower radiator hose on the drivers side if you're using anything that resembles a miata radiator. In the NA it'll interfere with the A/C hardpipe and sits above the frame rail. The NB's engine bay is slightly wider and longer and accommodates the pipe a bit easier.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

Again I looked at kit bashing from another GM car. Technical drawings are okay for an idea but I found that you can hunt for a PN on ebay or a pulled engine can give you a better idea. This is how I discovered the 2014 CTS pipe - PN 12635783. It hugs the block, goes underneath the exhaust, and exits below the alternator. Originally I accidentally ordered a 2013 CTS pipe which is camaro-like.

Here are the pipes for comparison - from top to bottom - Camaro, 2013 CTS, 2014 CTS.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

The CTS pipe fixes the A/C hardline problem - but introduces its own. The stock routing points the pipe right at the swaybar. So, out comes the blue wrench -

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

We passed the part through the bandsaw a few times, trimming unnecessary wiring loom holders and bits that would make it more difficult to wrestle into place.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

We flipped and shortened the bottom pipe bracket so it would meet with the alternator bracket.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9...225_144150.jpg

Oh - real quick - I should mention this before anyone puts their engine in. YOU WILL NEED TO MODIFY THE ALTERNATOR TOP STUD TO A BOLT. While we were playing around with the lower radiator hose we removed the alternator - turns out, the top stud is too long to remove with the frame rail in the way. I was able to double nut it out most of the way then trim the excess threads with a cutoff disc and unthreaded it the rest of the way with pliers.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u...225_142228.jpg


Expansion tank

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586
This is the expansion tank in V8Roadsters NB car.

The tank needs to be the highest point in the cooling system. We used some clear vinyl tubing and made a water level to verify our steam port tube (on the top of the tank) was higher than the steam port on the water pump outlet.

We didn't have that much space to put the tank mounted on the firewall. So after looking it for a bit, we moved the tank forward and rotated it 90 degrees by bending some flat stock and reusing threaded bolt holes in the engine bay. We also cut pretty radically into the fusebox tower so we could keep the area just forward of the A/C lines free. The brackets we made were pretty floppy (compared to the firewall) and might shift when filled with coolant, so we put a stand underneath to bear the weight and covered it with high density foam from a yoga mat to prevent chafing.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V...225_134308.jpg

Here you can see the 3/4in return line we modified in the CTS lower radiator hose.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W...225_135159.jpg

And here's the tank mounted and the 3/4in Vibrant hose plugged into the return line. Should be able to route the A/C lines around the hose no problem.

The expansion tank is GM PN 22829367 - since its fairly small and short we used the same one. It'll need a 15psi cap PN 15075118 as well. My main complaint with this bottle is the two plastic tabs at the back aren't completely flat, so we had to shim them to fit on our bracketry. The top nipple runs to the water pump outlet (steam port) and is 3/8ths. The bottom is 3/4 and runs into the lower radiator pipe. Once you figure out where your bottle will sit - it's time to modify your pipe.

We snagged Summit Racing PN CTR-20-883 3/8ths steel bung and FSS-84780 3/8ths npt to 3/4 nipple. While the pipe is 1.25in, the tank shouldn't see hardly any flow, and we figured a larger bung would me more cutting and radiusing than necessary. (Originally we ordered a 1/2in NPT bung - we would have had to radius half of it to make it sit flush on the pipe) The bung was welded to the pipe, then we drilled a hole through the pipe and finally attached with plenty of loctite 567 sealant. With the tank and bracketry in place, we could finally see what space we had left over to mount the ECU and ECU fusebox, and cut the 3/4in vibrant hose to size.

Upper radiator hose

This was a pita. The NA is a few inches shorter than the NB in the engine bay, and I was fairly confident that we didn't need to do any of the v8 tricks to move the radiator and condenser core forward. I was wrong - partly because I was using a thinner stock Miata radiator to mock up our space. But at this point in the build, it felt like a huge PITA to remove the mounting brackets and modify the core support. I had purchase a miataturbo budget favorite, the cxracing/godspeed bigass aluminum radiator for when this was originally going to be a supercharger rebuild. Once it was in it became apparent it was going to be a tight fit even with the slim radiator fans, considering the hose would need to make an immediate 90 degree turn. We managed to get a few more millimeters by slotting the holes on the upper radiator mounts and pushing the radiator forward.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

Once again - I looked for a few hours on GM parts websites to try and find something to kitbash. The water pump outlet from the new twin-turbo LF3 engine looked promising - it exited towards the upper radiator pipe in the stock miata position, was short, and at $120 one of the more expensive GM parts we acquired (the counter parts guy wasn't too happy - we originally ordered the wrong PN and got a equinox pump outlet). I really wanted this part to fit because it would have saved a lot of headache.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

But it doesn't. We briefly considered modifying the intake manifold - but that extrusion below the throttle body inlet works as a lint trap for oil and debris. After some measuring and thinking, we finally had to discard the LF3 outlet (and get our $120 back from the increasingly curmudgeonly parts counter guy).

We'd have to modify the camaro outlet. Good news - this part is only $30, so no biggy if you screw it up. Bad news - it's cast aluminum, and we don't have a tig rig. I thought that maybe I could cut off the pipe, dremel a ring around the outside of the pipe and stick a piece of welding wire around it, then JB weld the ring in place. But after some thinking I decided I didn't know how JB weld would react to all the heat cycles coolant would see. And I swear I took pictures of this but I can't find them.

Alumiweld is basically a no-flux aluminum brazing rod that you can find in your home depot welding section. Normally you can use it with a propane/MAPP torch - if your part is small enough. The biggest problem with aluminum (for alumiweld) is getting enough heat and keeping enough heat into the part to allow the rod to melt on the work piece. I've used it before on small stuff and it works alright - it's a bit tricky since it flows more like solder than a weld puddle. To keep heat in the piece we put it into a metal bucket and covered all of it except the tip in playground sand. With the ridge cut in the piece, a piece of aluminum welding rod around it, and a MAPP torch, I filled in the gap. It was beautiful. Except below the ring the alumiweld had failed to wick, so it was only sitting on the top.

When in doubt, use a bigger hammer. The oxy acetylene torch managed to melt the alumiweld and through the welding rod ring. So my nice round hose barb turned into a pourous kronenburg POS. Long story short - I added a lot more filler rod, it took 3 times as long as my first try, looked like crappy stick welds. But it's fairly functional once it was hit with a file.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586

A lot of work for just a 1 inch shorter pipe and hose barb. Gotta learn how to TIG.

Radiator Hose

I snagged 2x 1.25 hose couplers off ebay. The pipe coming off of the water pump is 1 1/2. Gates 23551 is the stock upper rad hose from a camaro, it steps down to 1.25, coupled to a miata lower radiator hose (Dayco 70989).
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455790586
We did end up trimming that radiator fan support stud down.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5...225_150220.jpg

For the lower we used another coupler and another Dayco 70989 with a upper? radiator hose from a CTS(?) Dayco 70949. More powergrip clamps and.. well.. hope the whole system doesn't leak. We ziptied another piece of radiator hose to protect against chafing where it's close (just barely) touching the radiator fan shroud mount.



"What I may have done differently".

Heater core - In the dash - silicone hose to tubing for the 90 degree bends. Each pipe took about 4 hours apiece, including two that were ultimate failures. It took a lot of patience and a lot of luck to get the hoses that close to the heater core. Not pictured: We also insulated the tubes with a neoprene wrap, the same that you get for your hot water heater lines.
Lower coolant pipe - Tweaked the lower pipe a little more aggressively towards the driver side.
Water pump outlet - JB weld. It's not that difficult to pull the pipe off - just 6 bolts for the intake manifold and 2 bolts for the pump outlet. If it did eventually leak, it'd be easy to step up to the alumiweld solution / find someone to tig up a hose barb.
Expansion Tank - instead of shimming the bolt holes, might attempt to bend the plastic flat with a heat gun.

Would V8R's kit have worked? They route soft hoses around the back of firewall that are already bent to bulkhead fittings.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455804283


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455804283


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455804283


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455804283


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455804283

Some good news, I just received confirmation from the Cadillac owners page,that the CTS, Holden, GM LY/LLT/LFX 3.0-3.6 blocks all used the same fundamental casting to simplify the manufacturing process globally, so trans, oil pans etc problems should all be interchangeable. You would of course run into minor accessory points and have to use the ones from that make. If all of this rings true, this makes obtaining engines very easy, and affordable.

On V8R's kit on the NA: Maybe? I don't believe their exit point would have been possible on the NA. The NB has a little bit more room behind the engine, but the hoses may have been long enough to stretch across.

And yeah, the LFX engine is just another version of the high function engine which is the LLT, LFX, LF3 and LF4. I was offered a nearly free LFX from a CTS that had blown a headgasket when I started this project, but the number of things I'd need to fix (headgasket) and check (bearings), plus hunting down all the camaro accesories and brackets.. its easier to start with a Camaro.

Yep. or in my case a CTS with the trans. the trans is only somewhat harder to get. the really hard one is the ECU cuz Cadillac in their wisdom can only crosscheck at the counter if you have the VIN..Good luck in a yard in getting a complete car. Since the V6 is the future (just ask Ford)I will look forward to getting a more complete look as people like yourself will know what works (interchange) and what will not. Like can you bolt up a Camaro trans to the CTS, if yes what years and so on. The V8 guys all ready know. Regardless your work is to be commended.....I will get started in about two months is some rational or not fashion....V6s just sound better to me

Look at lkqonline for a part (CTS or Camaro) - they have pictures of each donor/wreck and the VIN number posted. I would snag VIN's from there if I started getting grief on interchange parts.

Good plan , I'll keep checking in on them. In my area of Florida (will be moving back to Colorado) the CTS goes rather quickly for $800-1800, have only seen two Camaros. So that site will be very useful...Thanks

How much less work would you have had to do if you just spent $400 on a custom rad with the ins and outs in the same place?

I don't think it would have saved that much - the pipe for the upper would still need to be shortened and the hose would have needed to be a very short S. The lower pipe still needs to be bent a bit to clear the sway bar.. though I guess it could have been cut shorter and that might have given it a better route at the expense of a hose barb. If the custom radiator could fit underneath the top core support and deleted the radiator cap.. eh, maybe.

Moving the radiator support mounts forward from the get go would have been the easiest solution. Aside from the water pump outlet and intake manifold, there's tons of space between the radiator and engine block (compared to V8 swaps).

The best solution would probably be to cut the water pump outlet pipe at a 45, twist it to make a 90, and point it at the radiator.

So my research has produces CBM Performance out in California that make a stand alone harness for the LLT/LY7 V6 derivative's with foot pedal, relays and MAF. Do any of you know of them, and is this a good way to go for a NB?

I called them a few months ago and they did not have one at that time but even if they did they seem to want $1500 for a harness...no thanks!

Yikes, I'll re-call them and talk with Bret..That is WAY too much.....Got to be another way.
Just finished talking with Shaun (Tech lead) with Tuned ECU/ pedal/ harness/o2/MAF is $2300.. and can only be used on 2010-12 engines.


Got to find a more cost efficient way........will continue to search and ask questions.

I would advise you to sit tight for an update from Gooflophaze on the wiring. I am just about to start on the wiring as well so with any luck between the two of us we will be able to help others out with a simple wiring process for these swaps. The hardest part is the ECU but V8R already has a pretty cost effective solution for that.

I think if there is anything that makes the wiring in a Miata tough is the fact that Japan liked to change wire colors like they changed their underware. It sounds like Gooflophaze plans to create a completely new integrated chassis and engine harness and I plan to have a simplified chassis harness that is completely separate from the engine. Between the two others should be able to pick and choose how they want to wire their cars and know what will and will not work.

For now download this .zip file and start studying the pin out for the e39. This will help things make sense when we all jump in the weeds.

You are going to be a HERO to a lot of people.........don't forget the for fee "how-to manual" !!
Thanks

No the real heros are carnut and Gooflophaze with the LFX swaps. Gooflophaze here in this thread is providing the special little details that make the job manageable for most people. We are lucky to have someone like him that is not only willing to share his knowledge but able to write it in a way that it can be understood.

Roger that!! Especially for me who is not that electrically inclines, all else I'am good with.

Just a heads up that if you are using a 2013 or newer LFX.

If you are using a V8R power steering kit the AN adaper that goes into the LFX power steering pump will be about 1/4" too long. You will need to take a bit off the end so that the adapter will sit flush on the washer.

Thanks for the tip. My V8 does not have power, but this one would be more street, and needed when my Bride drives it.


Also up a few photos, My V8 Miata was a track car, so
I was not concerned with the routing of the lines in/out of heater core etc much, but I am sure glad to see your approach..Most helpful to me!!
Thanks