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Old 10-19-2015, 10:30 AM   #1661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
my guess would be that whoever did your machine work gunked up your oil passages and it keeps biting you.

sorry to hear dude, good luck
Possibly. Machinist has since closed shop so I can't go talk to him about it.

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Originally Posted by rwyatt365 View Post
^^ This

I feel for you, man. I went through two re-builds before getting one that doesn't spin bearings (yet).

On this last one I pulled out all the plugs on the oil passages and spent a whole day with hot cleaning solution, pipe cleaners and a rifle-bore brush kit making sure the oil passages were spotless. And even then, I changed the oil at 50 miles, 200 miles and 500 miles before I trusted that I wouldn't trash another engine.

Hope you get 'er back running again...soon...
I am hoping to get the motor out sometime this week. Going to HF at lunch to buy another engine stand. Then tonight will start on taking everything off the car to get the motor out. Hopefully by the end of the week I have the oil pan off and can see whats going on.
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Old 10-19-2015, 12:07 PM   #1662
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Default Shuiend can't keep a built motor oiled.

I've had debris in the oil pump relief twice. The soft aluminum bore is trouble when combined with debris.

I made the machinist drill out the plugs for the oil gallery and clean it all out, both for the block and the head.

Didn't Boundary say they were going to come out with a pump that had a steel sleeve in the relief bore?
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Old 10-19-2015, 12:12 PM   #1663
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Oh man, you are living my nightmare. Good luck sir.
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:10 PM   #1664
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Motor is out. Eating some food, then heading back to the garage to start taking it apart.
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Old 10-19-2015, 11:51 PM   #1665
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It took about 3 hours for me and a friend to get the motor out and onto the stand.

Almost about to pull.


Motor on the stand.


Not good.


Second main cap bearing. My finger nail could catch on some of the scratches.


Crank shaft. My finger nail did not catch on anything when running across the crank several times.


Second rod bearing.
Attached Thumbnails
Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one-ykwkpgs.jpg   Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one-e5rklue.jpg   Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one-whiahgc.jpg   Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one-yu6utl5.jpg   Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one-i9wm0pu.jpg  

Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one-1a4jcmx.jpg  
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:27 AM   #1666
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Tonight I pull apart the oil pump and finish pulling off all the caps to continue checking bearings and the crank. Not sure yet what my plans are for the motor. The BE oil pump is not going back on, even if I cannot find anything wrong with it.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:06 AM   #1667
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Please don't rebulid this long block. Get a fresh one and build that. This one just doesn't want to be your friend.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:14 AM   #1668
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Please don't rebulid this long block. Get a fresh one and build that. This one just doesn't want to be your friend.
I have 2 more bottom ends sitting on stands in my garage. One is a 99 with a "spun bearing", ecu was actually fried in that car so have no clue if anything is actually wrong. Then I have a 94 bottom end that came out of a running car. I guess I will be cracking them open very shortly to figure out which one I use.

I need to pull apart the head tonight also and see if any damage was done in it. I am hoping it is still good. As it is the first time I have ran that head, it came off a friends running car and sat until I needed to put it on.

I am starting to price out gaskets, bearings, and rings now.

Last edited by shuiend; 10-20-2015 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:59 AM   #1669
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See TNTUBAs comment in the ACL bearings thread.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:12 AM   #1670
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See TNTUBAs comment in the ACL bearings thread.
I am not sure if I want to wait a month+ for ACL bearings to come in. I am doing some re-evauluating of what I want out of the motor. Realistically the majority of the time the car is driven on the street, and will be doing some HPDE's. I won't ever do any W2W racing with this motor. It also will keep having a stock head for a good while, so no plans on revving past 7200rpms. So I am thinking I can get away with cheaper bearings that are available now and no BE oil pump.

One day when I can write Savington a check for a built motor, then I will go all out. At this time I am just tired of spending money over and over on expensive parts and getting failure.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:17 AM   #1671
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I'll sell you my built motor for cheap. Friends with benefits price. It's never been run so you could pull it apart to check things if you wanted.

Ebay rods with arp bolts, 84mm 8.6 CR super techs, new OEM oil pump, all new clevite bearings, freshened head. '94 block, '97 head.

I haz the serious.

Check my build thread for details.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:19 AM   #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
I'll sell you my built motor for cheap. Friends with benefits price. It's never been run so you could pull it apart to check things if you wanted.

Ebay rods with arp bolts, 84mm 8.6 CR super techs, new OEM oil pump, all new clevite bearings, freshened head. '94 block, '97 head.

I haz the serious.

Check my build thread for details.
We may be working this out. I may be picking up 2 motors this weekend.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:46 AM   #1673
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Isn't the oem vvt oil pump about $50 less than the equivalent BE pump?
I've always wondered if those who plop the vvt head on a block with the non-bp6d pump have oil issues.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:56 AM   #1674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I've had debris in the oil pump relief twice. The soft aluminum bore is trouble when combined with debris.

I made the machinist drill out the plugs for the oil gallery and clean it all out, both for the block and the head.

Didn't Boundary say they were going to come out with a pump that had a steel sleeve in the relief bore?
FWIW - I found out the relief plunger in my brand new BE pump was binding badly in the bore. It took several hours w/ 600-grit wet-sand paper and about a million test-fits to get the damned thing to move freely. The bore is probably not round and most likely tapered, but it's better than the plunger being frozen in place (which I think contributed to fail #2).

Just sayin'

Last edited by rwyatt365; 10-20-2015 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:28 AM   #1675
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Isn't the oem vvt oil pump about $50 less than the equivalent BE pump?
I've always wondered if those who plop the vvt head on a block with the non-bp6d pump have oil issues.
When I first built the motor in 2010 BE only offered gears. I bought a set and installed them in a 94 OE pump. Later on in 2012 I upgraded to a BE VVT Race pump that was shimmed for extra oil pressure. I saw exactly the same oil pressure on my stock sender and gauge with both pumps. While I believe there may be an oil pressure issue when using a non-VVt oil pump, I have never seen it happen in real life, and I have seen half a dozen engine builds without a VVT oil pump and not seen oiling issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwyatt365 View Post
FWIW - I found out the relief plunger in my brand new BE pump was binding badly in the bore. It took several hours w/ 600-grit wet-sand paper and about a million test-fits to get the damned thing to move freely. The bore is probably not round and most likely tapered, but it's better than the plunger being frozen in place (which I think contributed to fail #2).

Just sayin'
I will hopefully be taking apart the BE pump tonight. I have had mediocre service from Travis, and have never really been happy with the parts he has offered. So I am now done with them. If I do ever build a head and decide I want to rev higher, I will just buy an ATI super damper or the 949Racing damper.


On the plus side I am buying Efini~FC3S built motor. I should be picking it up this weekend. Then I will get it swapped in sometime in the coming weeks. I need to get my new NB front subframe ready to swap in at the same time. Have all new bushing from Emilio to get to put into that. So it will take some time to get that done.

As for the bad built motor, I will probably rebuild it slowly over the winter, then drop it in my 99.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:00 PM   #1676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
When I first built the motor in 2010 BE only offered gears. I bought a set and installed them in a 94 OE pump. Later on in 2012 I upgraded to a BE VVT Race pump that was shimmed for extra oil pressure. I saw exactly the same oil pressure on my stock sender and gauge with both pumps. While I believe there may be an oil pressure issue when using a non-VVt oil pump, I have never seen it happen in real life, and I have seen half a dozen engine builds without a VVT oil pump and not seen oiling issues.




I will hopefully be taking apart the BE pump tonight. I have had mediocre service from Travis, and have never really been happy with the parts he has offered. So I am now done with them. If I do ever build a head and decide I want to rev higher, I will just buy an ATI super damper or the 949Racing damper.


On the plus side I am buying Efini~FC3S built motor. I should be picking it up this weekend. Then I will get it swapped in sometime in the coming weeks. I need to get my new NB front subframe ready to swap in at the same time. Have all new bushing from Emilio to get to put into that. So it will take some time to get that done.

As for the bad built motor, I will probably rebuild it slowly over the winter, then drop it in my 99.
I've had good luck with used motor oil pumps and a good stock or ATI damper. I make it a point to not touch/disassemble/modify a good pump that's run for a long time without any problem. The old don't-fix-what's-not-broken. I think you'll be fine moving forward with a stock VVT oil pump on a vvt motor. That sucks big time about your repeat oil problems. Has it always been stuck relief valves?
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:33 PM   #1677
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I'm terrified now as I really don't like the thought of my motor being on borrowed time with my BE pump
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:35 PM   #1678
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I'm terrified now as I really don't like the thought of my motor being on borrowed time with my BE pump
I've never used a BE pump. But if you're worried about it failing, I'd either change it, or at least setup a loud buzzer that goes off if oil pressure drops. But admittedly, it would only take a coupe seconds of running at high load without pressure to damage things in the engine. I guess changing it would be the best way for peace of mind if you believe the BE pump might fail.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:47 PM   #1679
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I've had good luck with used motor oil pumps and a good stock or ATI damper. I make it a point to not touch/disassemble/modify a good pump that's run for a long time without any problem. The old don't-fix-what's-not-broken. I think you'll be fine moving forward with a stock VVT oil pump on a vvt motor. That sucks big time about your repeat oil problems. Has it always been stuck relief valves?
This is the first time I think it is a stuck relief valve. Below are the oiling issues I have ad over the past 5 years.

1. Originally did not put the oil relief valve in the oil pump. Did not realize it had been removed from the oil pump I had used. No damage was done to the motor, I added the relief valve in and the car ran great.

2. Added on glow shift oil sandwich plate and an RX7 oil cooler. Somehow the sandwich plate caused a blockage. Did not open the plug on the oil pump to test there. Pulled motor and had machine shop rebuild with a new BE vvt oil pump.

3. Tried new rebuilt motor with sandwich plate, had no oil pressure when trying to prime the pump, figured out it the sandwich plate. Removed it and oil pressure was good. Spun the thrust bearing while trying to prime originally, but motor was running good it seemed. Figured out about 750 miles later that crank could move in and out. Pulled motor and figured out what was wrong.

4. Rebuilt motor in a new bottom end. About 750 miles after driving it lost oil pressure. This is where I am at now.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:50 PM   #1680
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I'm terrified now as I really don't like the thought of my motor being on borrowed time with my BE pump
I would not be to worried. I think it is more my bad luck, more then anything else.


When I was driving home my oil pressure gauge started flickering around and getting lower and lower. I pulled over before it ever got down to zero. I then checked oil level in the car and the connector for the sender. Those were good. I started it up and no oil pressure so I immediately turned it off.
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