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Haha, I wish! I've watched your TT6 record lap from 2019 many times so felt pretty confident I wasn't going sub 2:05 on Toyos. 2:10 seemed like a safe starting point.
I started the Friday test and tune day on my 50+ HC R888Rs. First session was for brake bedding, skipped second session to let them finish cooling, so third and fourth sessions were where I tried to add in some pace. Traffic stayed a fairly heavy, but I ran some consistent 2:12s. The R888Rs are very unhappy now-a-days and were sliding all over the place. But, I didn't want to throw away heat cycles for what was basically sight laps to get oriented to the new track.
Saturday with the RRs I immediately dropped into the 2:08s without changing much else. Unfortunately it was very hot and was over 90* by 11 AM. Some storms rolled in to the south of us late afternoon and temps dropped like 15* and I was able to string together back to back 2:07s (video below). I then had a session with a low-2:06 predicted, but had to slam on the brakes before the kink on the back straight due to a train of cars running slow. I'm not sure what happened to slow them all down right there on the first flier of the session, but there was definitely no getting around them safely. So I know the car had more pace in it, but I couldn't get back there due to a couple mechanical issues that came up on Sunday morning.
Fired the car up first thing Sunday for the 9 AM session determined to get into the 6s officially. However, despite running great all day Friday and Saturday, on my warm up lap on a cold engine I started getting hot water warning. Pulled back into the paddock and found water level to be low. No evidence of water leaking anywhere exterior of the motor, but did find a good amount of debris blocking the bottom of the radiator. Cleaned everything out, topped off water, and re-bled. Went back out and car ran warm, but not overheating. Unfortunately, during that session going into turn 1 when I let off the brakes one of the rears did not disengage immediately, sending me into a half-spin at turn-in. Made it back to the pits while working the brakes and could feel the rear dragging. Initial inspection looks like parking brake adjustment screw had just rattled itself tighter, but I will take the caliper off for a full inspection. I was going to go out one more time just for a chill session hitting all my reference points on more time for video sake to review later, but car again was low on water and temps were 220 even before I got up to any sort of speed. Came back and parked it for the rest of the weekend.
This weekend I'm going to dig into the car and see what's up. Pitt Race is such a fun track and a very nice facility. I'll definitely be going back. I bet that track is awesome with some aero. Probably going to skip VIR in August as much as I hate to ever miss a VIR event, but my wife will be out of town that weekend and so it would just be me and the dog in 110* heat index and 90% humidity haha. I'm going to take some time to focus on some house projects and get the car looked over to finish out the season.
I ran TT6 at Pitt Race last July and it was the first time I'd been there in about 5 years with a significantly different car and driving experience. I was running the RRs / 128whp avg / ~2390lbs comp weight (with 2340lb min, so a bit heavy). Saturday was mostly junk between rain and relearning the track.
My best lap Sunday morning was officially a 2:07.17, but I blew turn 17. I pushed the brake point just a bit too much, locked up, and ran all the way out onto the rumble strip at track out. Naturally, I had to stay in it and salvaged the lap, but not pretty. AIM says the best rolling lap was a 2:06.75, which makes sense that I lost almost 0.5sec from that oops. The AIM theoretical best is a 2:04.8, but I question whether that's realistic given Dan's record is a 2:04.61 and I was on RRs.
I ran TT6 at Pitt Race last July and it was the first time I'd been there in about 5 years with a significantly different car and driving experience. I was running the RRs / 128whp avg / ~2390lbs comp weight (with 2340lb min, so a bit heavy). Saturday was mostly junk between rain and relearning the track.
My best lap Sunday morning was officially a 2:07.17, but I blew turn 17. I pushed the brake point just a bit too much, locked up, and ran all the way out onto the rumble strip at track out. Naturally, I had to stay in it and salvaged the lap, but not pretty. AIM says the best rolling lap was a 2:06.75, which makes sense that I lost almost 0.5sec from that oops. The AIM theoretical best is a 2:04.8, but I question whether that's realistic given Dan's record is a 2:04.61 and I was on RRs.
PM me if you want my Aim datas.
17 was tough for me. I couldn't find any sort of consistency there. One lap I would feel like I nailed it only to have the next lap feel completely different even though my hands and feet told me I was doing the same exact thing haha. I wish I could've finished my predicted 2:06 lap...I think I may have mis-remembered and the projected 2:06 may have been the Sunday early morning session...all I know for sure is that I looked down and saw a -2.xx on the +/- Best screen after I had turned a low 2:08. The video of that session does not clearly show the timer though.
I don't AIM well...is the predicted time of a lap stored in the data somewhere?
PS - Glad to know I'm at least in the ballpark with a 2:07 in a relatively comparable car on RRs. Can't argue with that for my first time there! Do you have video posted from last year by chance? I've barely scratched the surface on what the Solo can do as far as comparing data, but video is still fun to compare.
The AIM theoretical best is a 2:04.8, but I question whether that's realistic given Dan's record is a 2:04.61 and I was on RRs.
My record is soft. Go take it!
My 2019 record was in a ~stock NB2 with xidas and a header/squaretop on free, used 2016 DOT r7s.
I actually beat it in a hardship session while driving a friend's a car(Stewart Lemmons) the next year(2020) after my ST5 car broke. That car is/was taking elbj and floor drop penalties and was still super easy to dip below my old record in just a couple laps.
I know a 'real' TT6 car like Luke's, Stuart's or Sonny's from 2019 nats would go sub 2 pretty easy.
A 2022 ruleset 225 RR car at 2450/140avg whp is quite a bit faster on paper than my 19 car.
I prefer the 205 R7 on 8.5" build at 2450/128avg whp, but that 12whp is probably faster at Pitt/VIR type tracks.
Quick notes on min/max speeds:
You're actually 1-2mph faster in T17 than I am. Your fresh toyos are fine, as good or better than old used hohos.
You're 1mph faster at S/F, but give me back 2-3mph of Min in T1
Even with my T1 advantage you're again 1-2mph faster up the hill before T3
I am ~4mph faster Min through T3/4 complex. I use way more curb, wider line.
We both hit the rev limiter on the way down to T5, which implies we both have 5spd/4.3 and stock ECU/rev limit, but I am 5+mph faster Min through T5. 53mph vs 58. I am pretty violent on entry and let the car four wheel slide here, as the geography will catch the car.
Again, you motor me up the hill to 7, make up for all my Min speed advantage and match my 91mph max speed.
Entry to 7 is a huge difference, nearly 10mph, and the whole esses complex maintains this to some degree. Use more curbing!!!
I have a 2-3mph advantage into T12, but only a ~1mph Min speed advantage, I seemingly overslow this...
The back straight I end up with a 112 vs your 110mph, I think mostly due to line choice in T15 and maybe our respective throttle applications way back in T12 where I was a couple mph down vs you. Your car really scrubs speed in 15 particularly. I use full track width to allow as little steering angle as possible.
I recall my tt6 car "Tia" being ~125 avg whp and over 2400lbs so the power disparity on video makes sense.
I think you have plenty of opportunities for small gains here and there, especially in T3/4, T5 and T7-11.
This exercise really has me itching to drive again. I need to hurry up my kswap...
Quick notes on min/max speeds:
You're actually 1-2mph faster in T17 than I am. Your fresh toyos are fine, as good or better than old used hohos.
You're 1mph faster at S/F, but give me back 2-3mph of Min in T1
Even with my T1 advantage you're again 1-2mph faster up the hill before T3
I am ~4mph faster Min through T3/4 complex. I use way more curb, wider line.
We both hit the rev limiter on the way down to T5, which implies we both have 5spd/4.3 and stock ECU/rev limit, but I am 5+mph faster Min through T5. 53mph vs 58. I am pretty violent on entry and let the car four wheel slide here, as the geography will catch the car.
Again, you motor me up the hill to 7, make up for all my Min speed advantage and match my 91mph max speed.
Entry to 7 is a huge difference, nearly 10mph, and the whole esses complex maintains this to some degree. Use more curbing!!!
I have a 2-3mph advantage into T12, but only a ~1mph Min speed advantage, I seemingly overslow this...
The back straight I end up with a 112 vs your 110mph, I think mostly due to line choice in T15 and maybe our respective throttle applications way back in T12 where I was a couple mph down vs you. Your car really scrubs speed in 15 particularly. I use full track width to allow as little steering angle as possible.
I recall my tt6 car "Tia" being ~125 avg whp and over 2400lbs so the power disparity on video makes sense.
I think you have plenty of opportunities for small gains here and there, especially in T3/4, T5 and T7-11.
This exercise really has me itching to drive again. I need to hurry up my kswap...
I really appreciate you taking the time to compare and share notes Dan. Thanks a ton. I had watched your lap many times, but have not done any sort of side-by-side comparison.
You pointed out a few things that I know I don't like what I was doing - I have no idea why I was cutting 15 so tight for example.
The 3/4 complex I was originally taking a lot faster, but maybe a little wrecklessly. After going two-off coming through there multiple times I backed it off a bit. I struggled with consistency after that and I think I was just a little scared or not as focused through there the rest of the weekend.
5 definitely was a point of emphasis that I kept getting better, but I know there's plenty more there - again, I think I just started getting scared for some reason haha.
My original game plan for 7 was to late apex the entry and stay all the way track right to set up for 8. As I got further into the weekend I started carrying more entry speed into 7 knowing that there was plenty of track where I could pinch off the entry to 8 a bit more. But, every lap I seemed to forget that there's so much track out there, so again my brain just kind of panicked for a second and I didn't use what I know was available. Ever since I've been back home I keep thinking about how I can't wait to get back so I can continue to work on that whole complex through the esses.
Now my struggle is that part of me wants to move on and keep building the car into whatever it's next iteration is going to be while the other part of my wants to go back and try again in TT6 trim.
I saw on your post that parts are coming in to move forward with getting the Kswap going. I'll definitely be following along. I hope it goes smooth so you can get back out on track ASAP!
Fixed the water leak that developed at Pitt. Luckily just a torn heater hose, so easy fix. When we looked for the leak at the track it wasn't visible as it was very, very slow at idle, but once I started really feeling around and started moving hoses it presented itself more clearly.
While the engine was warm from bleeding the system after the repair I decided to do compression and leak down tests to see where the BP was in terms of longevity.
Previous compression in fall of 2020 was 205/195/195/200.
I'm going to re-dyno and see if I'm down on power. If I am I will recalculate my TT6 formula and maybe switch to Hoosiers for the rest of this year and into next year.
Kswap tentatively planned for 2023-2024 offseason.
EDIT: this post doesn't even matter anymore.
Last edited by Quigs; 09-01-2022 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: It's all nonsense
Re-did the compression test after I reset the timing back to stock to (hopefully) make 5 less avg HP so I can slap Hoosiers on the car to try out. Got my original good numbers of 205/200/195/205 Don't know why the low numbers the other day...
Anyway, dyno appointment on Saturday, shooting for 125 avg HP and 2440 lbs to run 205/50/15 R7s on 15x8.5s.
Short term: Keep running TT6 and play with Hoosiers. Have the option to drop down to 125 avg HP at 2250 lbs with RRs as well.
Long term: been reading up on LFX swap Tunable down to 200 hp and up to 300. While I still like the idea of the Kswap, this one is enticing as well. Roughly the same amount of work, though more money, but with a more robust trans/diff in the end and maybe a bit more "future-proof" with less of a HP ceiling. Can still run at the same 240 hp that a K would be, or turn it up depending on what classes exist in the future.
Dyno test today revealed that my car makes the same power as it did a year ago. Down 2 peak HP going from 14* BTDC back to stock 10*. Will have to ballast up to 2450 and pull extended ball joints to give R7s a try at 128 avg HP.
I thought about putting a restrictor plate on, but I was already depressed at the fact I was at the dyno hoping for LESS horsepower. With long term plans still TBD for the car, it may just stay on RRs for it's time in TT6 and enjoy being lighter again. We'll see what happens come October at VIR with the used R7s on.
Dyno test today revealed that my car makes the same power as it did a year ago. Down 2 peak HP going from 14* BTDC back to stock 10*. Will have to ballast up to 2450 and pull extended ball joints to give R7s a try at 128 avg HP.
I thought about putting a restrictor plate on, but I was already depressed at the fact I was at the dyno hoping for LESS horsepower. With long term plans still TBD for the car, it may just stay on RRs for it's time in TT6 and enjoy being lighter again. We'll see what happens come October at VIR with the used R7s on.
2475lbs
-.3 weight factor
+.2 cable throttle
+.3 small tire credit over 2400lbs(205 HoHo on 8/8.5" earns this)
-.7 A arms
-.2 ELBJs
+.4 BTM aero
Total Mod Factor -.3
allowed 128.24whp
Claim 128whp
Are you pulling ELBJs for dyno cushion?
Do you have offsets to replace them with?
That extra camber is worth way more speed than the extra ballast.
2475lbs
-.3 weight factor
+.2 cable throttle
+.3 small tire credit over 2400lbs(205 HoHo on 8/8.5" earns this)
-.7 A arms
-.2 ELBJs
+.4 BTM aero
Total Mod Factor -.3
allowed 128.24whp
Claim 128whp
Are you pulling ELBJs for dyno cushion?
Do you have offsets to replace them with?
That extra camber is worth way more speed than the extra ballast.
Honestly I need to weigh the car first and see...I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get up to 2475 without getting some more ballast which is ridiculously expensive right now. But, looking back at old weight numbers I may be able to add fuel and get there, just won't be much of a weight cushion.
I'd much prefer to keep the ball joints. Especially as this is just an experiment (for now) so minimal change would be nice. I got some 8.5s to mount the R7s on based on previous conversations with you, so I should be good there for the small tire credit. Ideally I'm going to finish out the season on two tracks that I have good reference data for (VIR and Summit Point) and see what the used R7s do/feel like. Then I'll make a decision for how to proceed next year.
I was just hoping that the timing adjustment would've sneaked 1-2 more HP down just to avoid needing more ballast. I have 144 lbs of ballast in the car right now + Coolsuit cooler + the ballast bracket and fire extinguisher mount. I can certainly buy more plate steel, just didn't want to spend the cash for something that may just be pulled out later if I like the car on the lighter side and will definitely be pulled out long term once I figure out what the heck direction I want to take the car in haha.
In a pinch, i've added a used brake rotor under the spare tire hold down bolt, along with the spare tire. Its weight in the wrong place, out back behind the axle, but its free if you have a streetcar or old parts laying around.
Well, in a crazy turn of events...I have decided to sell the car.
I can't accurately put into words why I feel like selling is the best direction. I'm certainly not bored with the car, there's still plenty of time to be found as it sits. Maybe frustrated by lack of class participation? Though that could be true of any class moving into the future. I think the biggest thing I couldn't wrap my head around was the amount of money needed to get the driveline swapped to something more competitive/fun. But, I already know I'll spend just as much money on something else down the line, so the money itself isn't the issue. Just that much money and at the end of the day it still being a Miata? I don't know.
What I do know is that trying to figure out what to do next was literally keeping me up at night. I was stressing over the balance of fun, financial responsibility, and relative competitiveness. With the decision to sell my mind has been at ease. But I know that will change as soon as I start looking for a new platform and begin stressing all over again.
And here I thought hobbies were supposed to be relaxing haha.
Anyway, I wanted to share in at least one place the reason why I was selling as I have gotten the question many times through messages of interested parties. At the end of the day I honestly don't know why, or at least can't put it into words. But, as much as I'll miss it, I guess it's time for something new.
That sucks and can totally sympathize with your situation. I feel fortunate that in the Southeast, E30s and miatas make up about half the entrants so relatively inexpensive classes are well attended, but any class is fragile if people start to leave.
I honestly think I might just be going through an early mid-life crisis haha. I sold my Mazdaspeed3 that I've had for over 10 years this past week as well. The whole fleet is turning over.
07-29-2022, 10:23 AM
0
Don't know why the low numbers the other day...
Tunable down to 200 hp and up to 300. While I still like the idea of the Kswap, this one is enticing as well. Roughly the same amount of work, though more money, but with a more robust trans/diff in the end and maybe a bit more "future-proof" with less of a HP ceiling. Can still run at the same 240 hp that a K would be, or turn it up depending on what classes exist in the future.
