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-   -   Something about GLTC/ST5/TT5 (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/something-about-gltc-st5-tt5-83284/)

flier129 02-27-2015 08:45 PM

Something about GLTC/ST5/TT5
 
4 Attachment(s)
I have no idea where to start......

I've got this 99 sport, long line of auto-x pedigree. It also happens to be THE most nationally winning NB...... in STR :giggle:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425087931

I've ran as the underdog for several years now, it was a lot of fun and don't regret it at all. Though, it is time to move the car on from that and onto track dayz, bro. Even though it can still be pretty....

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1425087931

Cookie-cutter mod list:
Mod-list:
99 Sport
Xida-S 700/400
15x9 6ULs/15x9 S1s/15x8 flat-outs
RB 1.25" front-sway, 14mm rear, 949 end-links
ES poly bushings motor mounts, diff, and control-arms
XP8 front / AX6 rear
Custom "cold-air" intake
RB header
Custom exhaust, high-flow cat, Borla resonator
DPtune ecu "reflash"
Harddog hardcore rollbar
Sparco pro2000, schroth 6-point



I've dreamed about getting out on the track for many years now. Finally got onto the track in my dad's 91(similar cookie-cutter build) last year, and as expected, hooked. Making this pipe-dream I've had a reality. So I have full intentions of running the car in TTE in the south-east. It usually seems like a decent field and I know a few guys that run as well.


I am currently shopping for a radiator, clutch/fly-wheel, and a steering wheel/QR/hub. RS3s on pre-order for street/practice tires and I've got an awesome local source for glently used SM7s. I figure I'll post up my thoughts on these parts I'm wanting to buy so you guize can help me mull over the decision with me.

aidandj 02-27-2015 09:44 PM

Why DPtune and not Megasquirt.

flier129 02-28-2015 08:24 AM

Previous owner did it. I had plans of putting a ms2 in the stock box to fit STR rules. Now I think I'll adjust the points around for TTE and run a ms3.

hornetball 02-28-2015 11:51 AM

Really nice car. Seems like you have enough mods that it will be tough to stay in TTE.

Random thoughts:

1. Probably need to step up to XP10/XP8 at least.

2. BBKs are a waste of TT points for a normally aspirated car, but the reduced pad changes from a front BBK are nice.

3. With an AC delete, reroute, and air guide/undertray in good condition, you'll find the stock-size radiator gives plenty of cooling. If you want all-aluminum for durability, then stay small to save weight/bulk.

4. Increased power adds heat to your water (combustion inefficiency). Increased RPM adds heat to your oil (friction). You should consider an oil cooler.

5. Hardtop? I've been eyeballing the TCM lightweight unit.

6. I've got the NRG 2.5 QR. Love it.

7. You may have some relearning to do on driving style. I've noticed that heavy auto-X types (including podium guys from Lincoln) are willing to throw away a lot of momentum for weight transfer. That really bogs them down on track. Focus on that and use data!

Mobius 02-28-2015 12:01 PM

Hardtop definitely.

Data!

A great way to get faster on track, after you are comfortable and driving reasonably hard, is to have someone who is fast drive the car, and compare their data to yours.

flier129 02-28-2015 01:17 PM

I actually picked up a hardtop a few weeks ago. It's plastidipped an ugly sparkling brown, so I'm going to vinyl wrap it black. I'll also pull the soft top.

I plan on moving up to xp10s once the XP8s wear out. I've actually had issues with the ax6s eating rotors before the pad is gone, I get cheap Napa blanks so it's not a big issue. No plans of a bbk.

Right now, with 205 SM7s I'm at 17points, add another point for 205 R7s. I've pondered on using stock sways with 1000/500 springs. Then I would have 3 points for a ms3.

Thanks for tips!

hornetball 02-28-2015 01:47 PM

That's funny. Thought that SM7 and R7 were actually the same tire, but SM7 is less points? Or maybe they were only the same tire last generation?

I think you've already consumed your ECU points with the reflash anyway, unless you were planning to find an unmolested OEM ECU.

flier129 03-01-2015 01:27 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I was also surprised with the points difference. I still haven't read confirmation that the R7 is faster than the SM7.

I do have a spare, unmolested, stock ecu that I will run once I compete. The PO said dptune didn't really add much power, it's more for the extra rpm to be able to stay in 2nd gear on course lol.

Today I'm working on fitting the sparco into the car. The sparco brackets on the right side need about 1/4" of space, which a bfh can easily fix. Right now I'm curious if there shoulder bolsters will fit with the stock door panels. Attachment 233972

williams805 03-13-2015 09:57 AM

Thinking about this bar and seat combo. Want to make sure I'll fit under the bar if I mount seat to floor. Do you have the hard top version of the bar (1.25" lower but 3" back) or the soft top only version? How tall are you? I'm 6'.

flier129 03-18-2015 03:13 PM


Originally Posted by williams805 (Post 1214541)
Thinking about this bar and seat combo. Want to make sure I'll fit under the bar if I mount seat to floor. Do you have the hard top version of the bar (1.25" lower but 3" back) or the soft top only version? How tall are you? I'm 6'.

I got the hard-top version of the bar. I'm 5 11" but I haven't done any driving with it yet :rofl:

My Schroth harness I ordered was on back-order for several weeks, finally came in last Thursday. I'll be drilling holes in the floor soon enough!

sixshooter 03-18-2015 04:33 PM

Weren't you in Tennessee?

I think we should meet up at Road Atlanta sometime. I'll be in contact when my life normalizes.

concealer404 03-18-2015 04:38 PM

Less posting, more HPDE winning.

We'll have to swap cars at MATG. Sound fun? Thought so.

flier129 03-18-2015 04:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by sixshooter (Post 1216315)
Weren't you in Tennessee?

I think we should meet up at Road Atlanta sometime. I'll be in contact when my life normalizes.

Yes, I moved to SC about 2 years ago. I'll be at the RA event with NASA in June. Come say hey if you find me first.


Originally Posted by concealer404 (Post 1216317)
Less posting, more HPDE winning.

We'll have to swap cars at MATG. Sound fun? Thought so.

I LOVE going 10/10ths in other people's cars!! :giggle:

Actually I just did the champ tour at Dixie last weekend. I was driving a buddy's GT500 ESP car in SM. 550+rwhp, 335s squared, Strano adjusted.... holy shat. I've driven the car a few times, but it never gets old.
Attachment 233971

concealer404 03-18-2015 04:51 PM

10/10ths is for pussies. I go 11/10ths 110% of the time.

Did a burnout in my piece of shit last night. Is your car even fast enough to spin the tires?

flier129 03-18-2015 06:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Bro, trusty rusty red could do a mean burnout with it's 95rwhp of fury!

Attachment 233970


Oh! I finally ordered a radiator, Koyo 36mm hyper V-core. Mainly because it's the same weight as stock and that fits CSP rules..... yeah I might run the car in CSP :jerkit:

flier129 03-19-2015 01:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The seat is WAY too close with my current bracket setup:
Attachment 233969

Going to pickup sparco sliders from a friend this weekend, should solve the problem here. I had to "massage" the trans tunnel a little bit to get the bracket to bolt all the way down. Hoping the sliders won't raise the seat too much, the lower the seat is the better.

flier129 03-24-2015 10:13 AM

1 Attachment(s)
It is time to radiate! Koyo's newer hyper v-core 36mm

Attachment 233968

Should be the same weight as stock, cool like a 55mm, and skinny enough so I won't have any clearance issues with my big front bar.

I am considering some slim fans just for the shrouds that come with them. I autox'd a turbo 99 on Sunday and the owner noted how much his slim fans from FM improved his running temps on the interstate dropped after installing them. Something like that is basically the same cost of this radiator, so my temps will basically need to be failing for me to consider that :rofl:

concealer404 03-24-2015 10:23 AM

FWIW, my experiences with the FM Stage 1 airflow kit mirror that person's. That's what i had on the MSM.

ofspunk7 03-24-2015 10:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1216630)
The seat is WAY too close with my current bracket setup:
https://i.imgur.com/oLSRdLal.jpg

Going to pickup sparco sliders from a friend this weekend, should solve the problem here. I had to "massage" the trans tunnel a little bit to get the bracket to bolt all the way down. Hoping the sliders won't raise the seat too much, the lower the seat is the better.

I have the same year PRO2000's in my car (well 1 of 2 of them). Let me know what you find out bracket wise for how low the seat sits. I was considering just making my own brackets in a fixed position as I sit as far back as I can anyways. Currently my head is just slightly below my roll bar when I am in it. Here is a pic from this weekend of the current setup. Although I am painting my HardDog bar now and putting in new harnesses this week.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1427208436

flier129 03-24-2015 02:39 PM

Alrighty, I'll be test fitting the seat with the slider this week. I really hope it only raises it 1/2" or less.

flier129 03-30-2015 03:56 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I did some things this weekend.

Installed the radiator, which would be a quick and easy job but I've got my intake shoved underneath it, so that took some fangling.
Attachment 233966


My next concern......
Attachment 233967

I've got the seat as low as it will possibly go with the bracket and the sliders. It could go about 1/2" lower without the sliders, but then I'll be about 6" closer to the wheel..... which makes it impossible to drive. This is definitely lower than stock, so that's a plus!

Will this be a huge concern, especially with my hardtop on as well? I'm getting really antsy to get out on the track though!

aidandj 03-30-2015 04:08 PM

Depends on your track/club. Some care a lot about that some seem to not care. I personally mounted my seat to the floor to get far below the roll bar.

sixshooter 03-30-2015 05:17 PM

If you roll the car the windshield will come rearward and down about 8-10 inches. Be ready for that.

With a hardtop, it will not be evident that you are slightly high.

Did you cut out the rear humps, straighten the rear legs, and bolt through the floor? You should.

flier129 04-01-2015 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by sixshooter (Post 1219905)
If you roll the car the windshield will come rearward and down about 8-10 inches. Be ready for that.

With a hardtop, it will not be evident that you are slightly high.

Did you cut out the rear humps, straighten the rear legs, and bolt through the floor? You should.

AH! This is why I posted my situation. I did not think of that. Thanks!

In other news..... I disconnected my rear bar on one side for a couple of autox's. Put the hardware back together and I thought I tightened the nut enough, but I guess not. The bolt, washers, cone washers, and nut all rattled off. Thankfully 949 carries spares, only $9 to replace it all and I didn't have to measure a damn thing.

humming 04-01-2015 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by sixshooter (Post 1219905)
If you roll the car the windshield will come rearward and down about 8-10 inches. Be ready for that.

With a hardtop, it will not be evident that you are slightly high.

Did you cut out the rear humps, straighten the rear legs, and bolt through the floor? You should.

[THREAD JACK]
How much can you expect to see that lower you WRT the broomstick test? I've got like an inch left to go...
[/THREAD JACK]

concealer404 04-01-2015 09:11 AM

I think the hump itself is almost an inch, then you have the slight angle change in the seat from doing it as well. It should get you an inch.

flier129 04-01-2015 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by concealer404 (Post 1220443)
I think the hump itself is almost an inch, then you have the slight angle change in the seat from doing it as well. It should get you an inch.

Good, I need every inch I can get! :party:


.....that's what she said? :rofl:

concealer404 04-01-2015 10:01 AM

I've got an inch to give you in July.

sixshooter 04-01-2015 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by concealer404 (Post 1220459)
I've got an inch to give you in July.

That escalated quickly.


But, yes, you can lose about an inch of height with the seat fully rearward after performing the modification. Sometimes the seat springs will drag the carpet at the end of travel when sliding the seat back if you have your weight in the seat. It gets you there. It also effectively increases the legroom slightly because of the angle change.

humming 04-01-2015 02:56 PM


Originally Posted by sixshooter (Post 1220543)
But, yes, you can lose about an inch of height with the seat fully rearward after performing the modification. Sometimes the seat springs will drag the carpet at the end of travel when sliding the seat back if you have your weight in the seat. It gets you there. It also effectively increases the legroom slightly because of the angle change.

Thanks! Was planning on some home made brackets and getting rid of the sliders but much prefer this option, so I'll start there!

concealer404 04-01-2015 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by sixshooter (Post 1220543)
That escalated quickly.


We didn't really get too in depth, though.

flier129 04-01-2015 03:11 PM


Originally Posted by concealer404 (Post 1220574)
We didn't really get too in depth, though.

My pants have tightened

sixshooter 04-02-2015 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1220578)
My pants have tightened

In the front or the rear?

flier129 04-06-2015 08:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by sixshooter (Post 1220895)
In the front or the rear?

Both! :rofl:

New street tires came in, old ones were gently used.....
Attachment 233965

Need to flip my next set for sure.

hornetball 04-07-2015 07:06 AM

Why heck! Those old ones are just starting to get grippy!

I just got a new set of RS-3s to use for rains too.

flier129 04-07-2015 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by hornetball (Post 1221928)
Why heck! Those old ones are just starting to get grippy!

I just got a new set of RS-3s to use for rains too.

lol.

Another difference between the V1 and V2 RS3s. The V2s have that hard compound, right before the cords so like the last 1/64th or something. You can see that different compound on the inside of all of the tires and lots of spots on the back left. Cords definitely would of been showing on all of these tires if they were V1s.

paNX2K&SE-R 04-09-2015 12:32 AM

I can't wait to get try out my new V2 'kooks after my 2013 Rival mistake followed by the skinny NT05s I ran last year. Marcus are you coming to MIM?

flier129 04-09-2015 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by paNX2K&SE-R (Post 1222602)
I can't wait to get try out my new V2 'kooks after my 2013 Rival mistake followed by the skinny NT05s I ran last year. Marcus are you coming to MIM?

I'll forever be a RS3 fan-boi. :giggle:

MiM depends on if the Kentucky Math tour happens. I do live where it's being based, so I'll most likely be there :)

flier129 04-09-2015 10:23 AM

I was struggling with my seat/bracket last night. I think it's damn near impossible to bolt the back of the bracket down and there's no way I can bolt the seat into the brackets while it's in the car. I just wanted to bolt it in to figure out where I should drill and bolt the eye-bolts in. Maybe it'll be easier to bolt the back down once I cut out those humps and bolt it to the floor? I can only get a wrench onto the bolts because the slider rails are so close to the holes.

OGRacing 04-09-2015 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1222663)
I was struggling with my seat/bracket last night. I think it's damn near impossible to bolt the back of the bracket down and there's no way I can bolt the seat into the brackets while it's in the car. I just wanted to bolt it in to figure out where I should drill and bolt the eye-bolts in. Maybe it'll be easier to bolt the back down once I cut out those humps and bolt it to the floor? I can only get a wrench onto the bolts because the slider rails are so close to the holes.

First off welcome,
to get lower i recommend trying the bsci seat foam.
https://www.miataturbo.net/og-racing...ur-seat-83148/

in my NB have the Sparco pro ADV (same but area as the Pro 2000). i modified the seat brackets and used the foam. i now sit 3" under the bar with my helmet on.

ofspunk7 04-09-2015 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by OGRacing (Post 1222664)
in my NB have the Sparco pro ADV (same but area as the Pro 2000). i modified the seat brackets and used the foam. i now sit 3" under the bar with my helmet on.

Do you have pics on what you did to your brackets? I am running Pro2000's like the OP, but on sliders.

flier129 04-09-2015 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by ofspunk7 (Post 1222702)
Do you have pics on what you did to your brackets? I am running Pro2000's like the OP, but on sliders.

I'm on sparco sliders now, I just can't use them because I have the seat bolt so low on the side-mount brackets. The levers don't have enough room to "unlock" the slider. Could you explain how you have yours mounted please?!

flier129 04-09-2015 01:40 PM

Oh, my new muffler came in yesterday, my car will sound a tad less horrible.

This was from Sunday, you can hear my car over my friend's e30 lol
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=830681373679301

ofspunk7 04-09-2015 01:41 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1222704)
I'm on sparco sliders now, I just can't use them because I have the seat bolt so low on the side-mount brackets. The levers don't have enough room to "unlock" the slider. Could you explain how you have yours mounted please?!

I am not sure which sliders I am running on the car. They were installed with the seats when I got this car. I have a few pics, maybe someone can chime in. (sorry the pics are not the best)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1428601313

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1428601313

My passenger seat is larger and was a PITA to bolt back in after I installed the new harness. My driver's seat is smaller (width) so it was a cake walk to install. The passenger's side does not have the wire that allow the seat to slide. You have to manually release each side, so i mounted it and slid it back manually. The driver's side has a DIY wire connecting both sliders. I installed the seat and then moved it back as far as possible.

OGRacing 04-09-2015 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by ofspunk7 (Post 1222707)
I am not sure which sliders I am running on the car. They were installed with the seats when I got this car. I have a few pics, maybe someone can chime in. (sorry the pics are not the best)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1428601313

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1428601313

My passenger seat is larger and was a PITA to bolt back in after I installed the new harness. My driver's seat is smaller (width) so it was a cake walk to install. The passenger's side does not have the wire that allow the seat to slide. You have to manually release each side, so i mounted it and slid it back manually. The driver's side has a DIY wire connecting both sliders. I installed the seat and then moved it back as far as possible.

First thing you can do is ditch the sliders. That's 1/2" right there. Kazspec makes a very good low profile seat mount.

I can't post my side mount setup. Because it's home made my welds are ugly and I'm a safety professional. I can post pictures of everything else lol. Let me grab a few shots..

flier129 04-27-2015 09:06 AM

Well I ditched the steel bracket and sparco sliders. I've made some extra holes in my sparco bracket so it fits the stock sliders, go figure it's actually 1/4" lower than the first setup I had AND I can actually adjust the seat.

Spent yesterday mocking up the locations for the eye-bolts. I've got the sub belts around 20 degrees and the lap belts around 60 degrees, both recommended by Schroth. I adjusted the sub belts short enough to put the cam-lock basically on my belly-button after I tighten the lap and shoulder belts. It seems comfortable enough, but I need to go for a decent drive to really figure it out.

The seat fits me pretty well(34" waist/5 11"/200lbs/26/M/SC/PST4SEXT), but my thunder thighs are an issue(toomanysquatz). The side bolsters squeeze my legs together(the opposite direction concealer wants em) and puts them ~1/4" from the wheel. So I can't fit my hand between the wheel and my legs.

Solution...... new wheel! I'm pretty set on: NRG short-hub, NRG 2.5 quick-release, and a Sparco 383, unless one of you fellas can convince me otherwise. I can get the 383 from a friend, it's very lightly used at a discounted rate and I really like it. So the hub and QR are up for debate.

concealer404 04-27-2015 09:08 AM

There's a... 300mm wheel for sale on here i think. Good price, too.

The closed legs are a side effect i can live with in conjunction with that luscious booty from the squats.

flier129 04-27-2015 10:33 PM

2 Attachment(s)
oh merr gawd, I can feel everything!!! All the headache from my incompetence was almost worth it all :rofl:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1430188386

No more bracing and I can concentrate on what the car is doing a lot better. This is 10x better than the sparco spring I had in my old rusty 94..... mostly due to it's blown 220k bushings vs my ES bushings on this car..... and the whole chassis being superior in every way. Biggest thing I noticed with the harness, threshold braking and I don't get thrown forward :D

Definitely need to get the wheel soon...... tight right handers are pretty difficult, but it's manageable.

flier129 04-28-2015 06:45 PM

2 Attachment(s)
It was so nice out today, I went for a little drive after work.

Attachment 233963
Attachment 233964

I'm lucky enough to be less than 30min away from several different fun mountain roads :party:

OGRacing 04-29-2015 02:46 PM

i have a pro ADV that has solid mounts. i blew out an axle in Charlotte and drove it home. the vibrations shook out my teeth.

flier129 04-30-2015 10:49 AM

Decisions.....

This: Sparco USA

or this: Sparco USA

I've already ordered the hub and QR, just need to pull the trigger on a wheel..... The 353 D-wheel will help with leg space and I'm wondering if it actually mounts higher than the 383. I've used a 383 before and I really liked it's thickness and the thumb "tabs" actually came in handy.

What do?

OGRacing 04-30-2015 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1227687)
Decisions.....

This: Sparco USA

or this: Sparco USA

I've already ordered the hub and QR, just need to pull the trigger on a wheel..... The 353 D-wheel will help with leg space and I'm wondering if it actually mounts higher than the 383. I've used a 383 before and I really liked it's thickness and the thumb "tabs" actually came in handy.

What do?

383 and a quick release?

we have the 383 in stock btw
Sparco 383 Competition Steering Wheel

flier129 05-03-2015 07:21 PM

Well, my engine is done, major rod-knock. Not sure about the head.

I've been chasing a very slight tapping noise for the past 6-7 months. Sounded like it was in the head, only happens while on throttle, started at ~2k rpm, didn't do it at idle or on decell. So checked my shim clearances and they were in tolerance. Compression test was good and leak down test was good. All of this was about 3 months ago.

So when the engine let go yesterday I was up in the mountains with some other miatas..... in front going fast.... came into a turn, downshifted into 4th and it brought it to 5k, down to 3rd and brought it to 3rd. Car felt great, tossed it into the turn and went WOT and immediately noticed a lack of power..... then heard knock. So I turned the engine off immediately lol.

Coasting down the mountains and caught some traffic for about 2-3 miles, which gave me time to ponder "I wonder if I can make it the 25 miles home." Traffic pulled over, still coasting and the dozen miatas behind me are probably think "wtf is he doing!" so I put my flashers on. Get to a hill, I start the engine and hear it knock, but only while giving it throttle. I cringe while babying it up the hill. I cut the engine off again going downhill and finally get to a large pull off. It was pretty cool that every single miata pulled over to make sure I was alright and then to also giggle at my annihilated engine. I ended up babying it home and am now pondering on what to do next. :rofl:

paNX2K&SE-R 05-03-2015 09:59 PM

We'd never leave someone in our group behind, hell I met both Steve and Corey by helping them on the side of the road when they had trouble on a run. Marcus did you drain the remaining oil yet to see how much you were missing? :D

flier129 05-04-2015 08:25 AM

I thought I mentioned that in my short story above, lol. I did drain the oil, only a few tiny pen-tip metal bits after running a magnet thru the drained oil. The engine obviously had some oil consumption issues.... I topped the oil off last Tuesday and managed to burn over a qt and a half by the time it spun the bearing(s). Lack of oil, a high G turn, and a really hard life annihilated that engine.

On a brighter note, a good friend of mine has a running 99 with 80k on it. Which is conveniently the same mileage as mine. Car is completely stock and the previous owners seemed to be easy on it. He's going to get compression numbers off the engine for me just in case and I'll likely buy that off of him for a good deal. He's planning on doing a k/j-swap into it, so it works out for the both of us.

My next dilemma is....... do I rebuild(if it's possible) my engine for more power for next year? Pistons, rods, headwork, etc but all of that will be damn near $4k or more :vash:

90civichhb 05-05-2015 09:30 PM

That sucks to hear man. Hope you get it all figured out. I think you should do a mild build and boost it! DUE IT, DOO IT, DEW IT!

paNX2K&SE-R 05-05-2015 10:25 PM

$4k would probably almost buy the upcoming JR/949 Rotrex kit.

TNTUBA 05-06-2015 07:11 AM

Just yank the old one and bring it over to my shop with a signed, blank check. I'll take care of everything from there.

flier129 05-06-2015 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by TNTUBA (Post 1229127)
Just yank the old one and bring it over to my shop with a signed blank check. I'll take care of everything from there.

:rofl:

I'd seriously take this offer if I lived back in Knoxville again. I've never been taught any engine assembly procedures..... just figured out things as I broke them :party:

It's hard for me to justify several thousand dollars for maybe 20rwhp. It would honestly depend on how competitive I want to be in TT.

aidandj 05-06-2015 08:59 AM

I think you would get a little more than 20hp if TNTUBA built your car....


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