Stein's 5.0 build thread
 

New build thread.

Motor is out.

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Pulling the 5.0 from the T Bird that it was swapped into.

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Nice to have room to have both cars in the shop at the same time.

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5.0 is out.

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New axles showed up Friday! Completely built with all new parts, new CV's. They are beefy. Axles are over 1.25" diameter. Total cost? $220 for both. They are sized for an 8.8 diff and T bird splines. Boss Frog and V8R can kiss my ass with their $1500-$2300 axles.

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Disassembled the front subframe and ready to start cutting it up. Still need to pick up my $100 V8 T Bird to get the IRS.

Nice! I'll be following this!

Cool. Have you already gathered all of the big stuff you're gonna need or are you going with more of you own "custom" route

Very nice start. Good shit man. I'll be keeping an eye on this;)

By big stuff, I have the motor, trans, rear end, and axles. That's really it except for the subframes. I'm fabbing them.

Well, I guess you could consider the other big stuff, which is heads, intake and cam. That will cost as much as all of the parts that I have bought together.:giggle:

Watch for a part out thread to be coming your way...

99 head, 88K miles
99 motor parts. It threw a rod through the pan but other parts available.
99 open diff and axles
99 harness and ECU if needed
99 front and rear sways

:x:Racecar?

Dunno. I'm swapping over my Tein Flex and 6UL's. After I add heads, intake and cam I should be around 300 WHP. I'll likely sell the turbo car if this proves to be a reliable fair weather DD. One more thing to add to the dollar figure is paint. I can get the car painted same color and fix the dings for $1100. He did my wife's BRG for $1000 and it looks great. The downside is it's black. I live on a gravel road so that is utter fail. If I decide to DD it, I'm shamelessly copying Dopple's car and selling the other but that will cost more to upgrade and change color. Silver/grey will hide dust better. If I keep both, and it becomes a track car, it's staying black as I won't care.

Please document this in detail.

Seller??

Black track whore!!!

I plan to.



lulz...maybe in a bit. Don't know if I can yet.

stein please paint it not-black.

Subscribed.

This is going to be awshum!

+1 on not painting it black. I love my black car -the three days out of the month it's clean-. Tired of washing the bitch.

A little update for today.

I built a welding fixture for the front subframe. This is the most critical part of my build. I'm cutting the subframe into three separate pieces, so I needed a very robust jig to weld it back together, ensuring that the pickup points remain where they are suposed to be.

The rear subframe mounts are on two 3/4" tubes with stops below and the 3/4" tubes are flush with the top of the subframe. 3/4" tubing fit the rear holes perfectly. Very snug. I welded a 1/2" bolt to the main frame first, cut 3/4" bushings to length and welded them on. I then pulled off the subframe and I slipped a piece of oversize tubing on cut to a length to set the depth and welded it as well.

I made eight brackets to hold the lower A-Arm joints. I used some old PPF bolts to mount it. They fit in the slots perfectly. Holes in the jig are size-for-size on the bolts. Zero movement.

I also tied in the upper A-Arm mounts using some extra upper A-Arm mounting bolts. It would have been tough to figure the exact location of the holes, so I clearanced the 2" tubing and then drilled out some 1/2" washers to fit the bolt snugly. I welded on the 2" tube uprights, let it cool and move where it wanted to after welding and then assembled the hardware, finally welding on the washers for perfect alignment.

I want to add one more square tube that angles along the face of the steering rack mounts so I can positively locate them as the front of the subframe will be loose when I cut it into pieces.

Some pics. No, the 2" tubing isn't bent. Just the camera angle.

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nice!! this oughta be awesome GL stein!!

Looks good!
I'm curious about the rearend, axles and your plan to piece them together.
Will you take pictures to compare parts when you get to that stage.

I will do that. I need to see if the low buck axle solution fits as well as I hope it will.

subscribed. A+

OK, I've had several PM's and questions about the axles and questions of if my pricing is legit. So, if you have been following this thread, here is where you get them.

Factory Five Racing
Part # 14839
Call them and ask for the standard length axles for the 8.8 IRS
Price is $110 each, shipping is $25
They come complete exactly like my picture above in this thread.

I have absolutely no idea how long they will continue to sell them at this price. A couple of us have bought them from FFR for this price but we have been keeping it quiet thus far in case something happened. They can't be making much if anything off them at this price and they are likely priced as replacement parts for their $3K IRS upgrade to their Cobra kits.

So, there you have it.

So are you using the hubs from the T-Bird?
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Right now I'm planning on getting the Miata hubs broached to fit. I want to keep the Miata bolt pattern. T Birds have a 5 on 4.25 pattern which kill wheel choices. The better option is to go to 99? Cobra hubs. Same spline but more friendly wheel choices in 5 on 4.5 pattern.

My other option is to use the T Bird hubs that I will have anyway and redrill for Miata pattern and turn the bearing journal to fit the Miat hubs and bearings. Don't know if that will work or retain the same offset until I have both parts in my hands.

Silicone Boy is pressing out one of his Miata hubs for me to measure both. He has loose Cobra hubs that he is using.

We need pictures when you get the parts in hand.

design sketches

And pictures of girlfriends.

Thanks

Well, I took the plunge today and cut the subframe.

I marked out where I wanted to cut through on the topside for reference. This was only used when I stopped cutting just to see how the sawzall was coming through, as I was cutting the entire subrame at one time from the bottom and some of the cuts were seven inches apart.

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On the back (bottom) I mounted a sacrifical piece of plywood. On that I marked my cut lines. The plywood allowed for a flat surface to guide the shoe of the sawsall, allowed a fine pencil line and helped maintain a perpendicular cut.

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Center section dropped out.

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A side view.

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The cut came out very straight. There will be very little cleanup needed to get a perfectly flat place to weld the side plate to.

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Section that was cut through in one pass. I used one 9" bimetal sawzall blade per side. Cutting through the original motor mount cups was pretty tough going.

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Full on shot looking down the center. There is a little to be cleaned u, but all on the steel safe side. Ten minutes with the angle grinder and I will be good to go.

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Right down the line.

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All in all, it went very well. After everything was set up, it probably only took 10 minutes to make both cuts.

Next it to cut away the front plate that holds the steering rack brackets. That plate will be welded to the front cross member.

Looks good! Are you gonna mig it?

Dunno. Might TIG, we'll see how the fit-up is. Which do you think will induce the least built-in stresses when I take it out of the jig? You know better than I. I don't do this for a living.

i love you.:laugh:

Great job. What thickness of plate are you going to use?

Something in the .090"-.125" range. Depends on what I have. .125 is overkill and tougher to cut all of the contours to fit. A bit thicker than what is there now, though. Tubing for the front will be 1 1/2" x 2.75" x .125 wall. Front tubing will be two 1 1/2" x 1 1/2 tubes, cut off one side of one tube and welded together to make a hollow "8" cross section. 3" is a bit too tall from what I have read and the stock subframe is about 2 3/4" thick at that section.

This just in...

Bought this today.

Mustang Roller 5.0 bored .030 over
TRW forged pistons with Teflon coated skirts
Balanced and polished crank
E-303 Ford Motorsports cam
Cloyes Double Roller Timing Chain
1.6 Adjustable Roller Rockers
Trick Flow Hardened Pushrods
AFR 165 #1402 Heads
Reverse rotation water pump and timing chain cover
Factory front balancer
Mustang double sump oil pan

He also threw in a lightly ported and gasket matched Explorer upper and lower intake after I bought it.

Also, picked up my new $400 hardtop last night!

Welded up my subframe last weekend. Sorry I didn't get any pics yet. I MIG welded it. When I took it out of the frame, some of the bolts were pretty snug but I can get it out and back in so it had to have warped less than 1/16". Easily will be drawn back to normal shape when bolted into the car. Heck, the factory one had almost 1/8" of twist in it before I started.

Anyone want to buy a really nice, heavy duty subframe welding jig? $100 + $50 shipping. It's big and heavy.

Your project status level has now been upgraded to AweCon1.

PAH!

Should be good for low 300's on PAH! Just need to get some injectorz and probably upgrade the TB...and the MAF....and....and.....:giggle:

$50 shipping isn't gonna cover that. I may want it...but not anytime soon unfortunately :(

Yeah, but now your block and internals have real potential.

Once you get it in there you can start playing the bolt on PAH! game.

This has gone from a good DIY build with a mundane used motor to something unique and definitely worth all that amazing fab work.

No offense to your previous plans...but you know when you get it built everyone will ask what kind of motor etc. etc...and you'll have a lot more fun spitting out that list of specs than just saying "oh, a used tbird motor".

Cheap homebrew has never looked so good.

Some pics of the "in process" subframe. I hacked it out to a 21" inside dimension, per CVX_20's domain page. The front cross piece is 2.75" tall x 1.5" wide. I cut 1/4" off of a 1 1/2" square tube the full length and then welded it into an "8" cross section. I trimmed the front plate that carries the steering rack off and welded it to the original subframe and the tubing. A couple short pieces of 1 1/2" tubing coped in to match the angle of the front piece ties in the upright sections. I added .075" sheet to the sides that were cut out and a piece of 1/8x1 1/2" strip to the bottom to box it in. I added one section of plate to the outside to tie in the upper section and the plate on the bottom as well as the rear control arm mount to prevent twisting. I still need to weld some sections like the old cups that housed the motor mount to the side plate.

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Sorry, I haven't done any real cleanup yet so it doesn't look too good. When it's done I'll sandblast and probably powdercoat.

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looking very good!

Very nice looking subframe, sir!

Motor is in, at least as far as the mounting goes. I actually did it twice. The first time I had it all the way back to the power steering cooling loop. It fit well. But then I started looking at the trans and where the shifter fell and it was too far forward. It also looked like the water pump would infringe on the radiator's space.

So, I redid the mounts, bent the cooling loop down and was able to move the motor back another 1 1/4". That put the shifter right at the front edge of the hole which seems OK to work with. Sorry, the side view is before I moved it back and I didn't get another shot. Now, the left head is about 1 TO 1 1/2" from the firewall.

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After that I looked at the radiator. I have a 52mm Koyo that I carried over from the turbo car. With the motor moved back, all that I had to do is relocate the lower radiator mounts forward 2" and down 1/2". Basically, I moved the rear bolt hole to the front hole. Did a little trimming so everthing would clear and dropped it in. Slight bend on the stock upper mounting brackets and everything fit perfectly. Need to cut all of the stock Miata fan mounting points off of it yet. There is 1/4" gap from the end of the WP to the radiator. I could cut 1/8" or whatever protrudes through the pulley off of the tip of the pump shaft if I want another bit of clearance.

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Headers fit with no problem, other than the notching that I had to do on the passenger side. After moving it back, it was discovered that I wouldn't have had to notch as far forward, thus as tall but everything is boxed and I'm not about to do it again.

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Here's a shot that shows how busy the left mount is. All lines clear by 1/4", plenty of clearance on steering u-joint and collector of header. I have to replace the return line on the PS because it was kinked when The pump hung off of it while installing and dismounting the rack half a dozen times. I have another rack to rob parts off of.

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Not sure if u mentioned this but what is your engine management/ wiring plans. I am in the middle of a custom megasquirt setup on a supercharged 5.0 using the TFI setup.

I have the stock wiring harness that I sent off to a guy that refurbs them, strips what isn't needed, cleans everything, does some things that I don't understand about relays to run the Miata pump, etc and rewraps it to just drop in the bay. You have to cut 2 or 3 wires to tap into the Miata system and it completely does away with the Miata ECU.

For tuning, I bought a Quarterhorse. It's the latest and greatest for tuning 5.0's and virtually everyone getting into them now are buying it over the Tweecer. The chip plugs into the stock A9L in a socket that is already there and then you have full control over everything, just like MS. It datalogs from the LC-1 WB. All parameters can be set in the base map such as injector size, which MAF, smog/no smog, EGR/no EGR, etc. You have to buy a software package to read the maps and a package to burn the chip. All told, it's $250 for the QH, $130 for the software so it's pretty cheap. They work really well for Turbo and SC 5.0's as well, from what I read. The thing is, they are DESIGNED for Mustangs so there is really good support. The website is Welcome to www.moates.net! : Moates.Net

If you are burning chips, I guess you can't tune real time with that software, right? I could look at the link you posted but I am lazy.

And as such, how much to build another one of those subframes?

EDIT: Are you using McCully to do your wiring harness?

That seems like a pretty nice setup for simple tuning. We just decided to go megasquirt because the "harness" that was transplanted into the toyota pickup was a disaster.

Yes, real time. It's not a "one burn" chip, more of saving it to disc. You can tune on the fly.

I sold my jig so I wouldn't be tempted to do just that. I won't be building another. No real reason other than it will detract from my build. I have too many side projects that keep getting in the way. It wasn't too bad, though. Maybe 12 hours after I had the jig.

Yes, I used McCully for the harness. $200 well spent as I hate electrical work and the tedium of cleaning, etc.

My harness was hacked also when it was transplanted in the T Bird. That's another reason that I used McCully. He fixed everything on the harness that "wasn't stock".

95% done with building our 5.0 megasquirt harness.

I'm not going to lie its been extremely time consuming and slow. Probably put 8 hours into it today (starting from an empty body with a motor). $200 doesnt sound too bad, lol.

This is pretty awesome, please keep the pictures coming i really enjoy reading the updates.

Keep up the good work!

On the other forum we have been discussing the best way to fit the new FFR axles. What we decided was going to be the easiest way was to relocate the lower and upper shock pockets. The uppers are held in place with three bolts and 10 -12 spot welds. Drill the welds and remove the bolts and slide it to the rear 2". That means moving the lower shock mounts to the rear 2" as well.

I decided that I'm tired of working on engine stuff, so I decided to tackle the lower control arms today. I had an idea of what I wanted to do but I didn't know if I could bend the bar to make the part so I whipped up a little brake die to fit into my HF 12 ton press.

When I first got the press, I did some rough matching of the press plates that came with it. This was needed to press out the bearings to retrieve the hubs. The press plates are cast, with all the attendant draft the comes with a rough casting. I clamped them together and then ground on them with my 7" angle grinder until they stood up straight and square. I then ground all of the half rounds and vees in them, never knowing when I might need them.

Well, I needed them. After I made the upper brake die, I tried a piece of 1/8" x 2" stock. No sweat. So, I figured, what the heck, I'll try a piece of 1/4" x 2". Still did it without any problems. Didn't even need the extension handle for the jack. The parts came out great.

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After that, I started on cutting the control arms. The new pieces were 3" wide inside, 1 1/2" long on the legs. I notched the control arms to make them fit tight on the bandsaw, cutting away the outer flange of the outer part of the shock pocket, right up to the outer wall of the pocket.

This would now become the inner wall of the shock pocket. It in essence moved the shock 1.9" to the rear. Close enough to the 2" that was bantered about here recently. The control arm was then trimmed back until the new "U" bracket made up a 1.8" inside dimension to match that of the old shock pocket. I then used a long bolt passed through the original holes and threaded into the original nut, clamped the bracket in place and then screwed out the bolt until the head hit the new bracket. I was able to trace around it to locate the new bolt hole. I drilled the hole and then clamped it up and welded it in place.

I still need to add a gusset plate on the bottom to tie it all together, but the way I cut it into the control arm there was a lot of surface area to weld to. Should work fine. I won't need to weld the nut in place as it will be easy to access it through the old shock pocket.

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Wow...ingenuity at it's best.

This build keeps moving at a rate that lets you know there is nothing but awesome at the end of it.

Got the first upper shock mount drilled out today. I jut said screw it and drilled through. By the time I was completely through the first sheet the drill point was already poking through.

If anyone does this, here's a tip:

If you drill all the spots and it doesn't literally fall out, you either missed one or didn't get all of one of the spot welds. I got them all but when I was prying and wiggling it I could see where it was pivoting. After a bit of touch up with the die grinder and a carbide burr on a weld where the drill had walked, the pocket fell out. There is really no adhesive holding them in.

After it is out there is still work to do. Notching on the bottom flange and redrilling the holes for the three upper bolts. Unfortunately, when I moved it back 1.9" to match the bottom, I found that the spot weld spacing was roughly....1.9". You can see where several of the holes almost match up with the original adjacent holes. The only one in the face that hit good metal is the one to the left of the clamp that has my relocation dot on it. I'm going to pull it back off, weld up the holes in the rail and grind flush. That way I can rosette weld the old holes and it will look good.

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Completed the rear diff carrier today. I suspended the entire diff from the bottom. All mounts are attached to the base plate that bolts to the bottom of the subframe using the four holes that the subrame brace used to be connected to. The diff is mounted on two sets of Energy Suspension diff carrier bushings. They were $20.92 per set from Amazon.com with free shipping.

When I measured my other 99, the centerline of the axles shafts was 4.75" above the bottom plane of the subframe pads on the bottom so I carried that dinemsion through to this diff. It worked out that the front needed exactly 2.800" to make it work. The diff bushing and washer were .795" so a piece of 2" tubing was used, notched to clear the snout of the diff.

On the rear, I fabbed a bracket that also uses the same bushings. I mounted them far outboard to offset torque and to get close to the mounting bolts as my lower plate wasn't tied into the upper subframe like BF's mount. They also use a rigid mount welded directly to the frame, whereas I wanted the urethane mounts. The bracket is 1/8" x 2" stock, welded into an angle iron shape. I shimmed up the diff until the flange was perpendicular to the bottom of the plate and set the height there. It pretty much worked out that the bracket sitting on the urethane bumpers without the lower washer just cleared the outside part of the bracket on the diff cover. I had to grind some of the taper in the casting to get it under the bracket.

I then went back and welded some tabs on the bottom to stiffen up the corners where it mounts to the subframe. It ties in the front mount as well as the bolts for the rear mount. These were 1/4" x 2" stock. Final stiffening was to add two 1" angle iron braces running front to rear on the sides of the mounting plate. BF bends the plate up. I didn't have a means to do that so this is the compromise. The center section of the plate was cut out on my Chinese band saw. I had to cut in from the outside to cut out the hole and then I welded it up again.

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Here are some pics of the diff on the base plate, as well as installed in the subframe.

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Damn that looks SOLID

Looking legit.

Sweet build so far.

Man...that's some real "inside the box" thinking on that diff mount there.

I think you're going to really enjoy this car, not just for the performance, but knowing how well built everything underneath you is.

Did a test fit on the rear end today. Pressed in new bearings and assembled the freshly broached hubs. First off was to see if there was any binding on the CV joints. No worries whatsoever. With the shafts horizontal (shortest possible, there is still 1" of travel in the joints so they are right in the middle of their range.

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After that I assembled the shocks with the relocated shock pocket. I moved mine back 1.9", as that was the spacing to work with the bottom pocket by moving the shock from the inside pocket to the outside.

Plenty of clearance on the CV boot, even with the large diameter Tein shock bodies.

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I did run into one problem, though. The FFR inner spline that goes into the diff would not engage the snap ring that retains it in the diff. I pulled it out and compared it to the straight axles that came with the diff. The distance from the end of the shaft to the inner edge of the grove was .500 whereas the other shafts was .420. So, I taped up the shaft to protect it and ground off .080" which ended up being the chamfered area so it made an easy guide. After that I rebeveled the shaft, took a nylon wheel to it to debur and it assembled fine.

That wasn't the end of my problems, though. When I went to remove the shaft I tried to pry it out like normal and it woudn't come. I forced it and it came out but without the snap ring. So, I got to pull everything out and open up the diff to remove two parts of broken snap ring.

Diff is back together and ready to reassemble. So, I think this puts the question of whether the FFR axles will work in our cars to rest.

Total cost in rear end,

$100 used 8.8 diff
$220 Axles
$140 Assembly of diff and gears
Borach hubs $80
Traction Lok and new 3.73's (free-came with donor in a box)
Misc steel that I had laying around

$540 total, plus probably 30 hours labor for everything.

Anyone have a part number for those snap rings?

You have awesome build going on-love how you made the U brackets!

Fantastic build! Keep it coming!

Thanks man, I'm trying. The DIY thing takes a lot more time that just bolting in a kit. It's fun though. If it wasn't, I'd be bored by now. Back when I satarted, I had planned on going to paint in Feb. That won't happen but I won't see driving weather until April at least. The journey is where it's at. Still, progress every week.

Love it! I've been searching for a nice in depth fabrication and design thread some of the smaller odds and ends, and you seem to have what I was looking for. I have the identical part setup, so I think I will sell that chunk I was telling you about and start fabbing the 8.8 up.

Yeah, I've been lacking in updates. No visusal progress due to all tedious detail work so no new pics.

Fuel is done - all stainless flex from tank to fuel rail both ways and filters installed.

Most of the wiring is done. Just a few odds and ends and the alternator to hook up.

Alternator was moved by using a Marsh-type bracket and then flipping the alternator down where the smog pump was. An idler pulley was installed in the AC bracket to wrap the backside of the belt around the water pump pulley. A turnbuckle mounts to the bottom hole of the alternator for tensioning. Worked out really slick and looks clean. I bored out a Miata 4 rib waterpump pulley ID on the lathe to match the OD of the backsinde of the Ford belt drive pulley and welded it on behind the 6 rib. Then I fabbed up a bracket to mount the Miata PS pump to be driven off of that pulley. THe whole thing packaged nicely.

Attachment 197916


Been working on the exhaust. Everything is being done by me with V-band clamps and mandrel bends. Two V-bands on the headers, one after the merge, one before and after the diff to be able to snake the pipe under the CV. Exhaust is two 2 1/2" into a merge collector into one 3". Columbia River was backordered on all of my 3" U bends to finish so I have been on hold since yesterday. They shipped so I should have them Wednesday and I can finish the exhaust.

Beginnings of the exhaust routing.

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Don't mind the temprary baling twine exhaust hanger. It's not all welded yet. I am a farm boy so I know if this was to be permanent, I'd have to use baling wire instead of baling twine.
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