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Winter Turbo Build - Custom Equal Length Tial V-band Goodness!
4 Attachment(s)
It's late and I am headed to bed but I thought I would post a teaser of my latest project...
Designed in SolidWorks, equal length within .020", V-band everything, 100% fabricated by yours truly! Some of the welds are not wonderful but I am geting better! |
Ive become aroused
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Wow that looks awesome. What thickness are the pieces you used for the runners, and what did you use to polish everything?
Looks great! |
Originally Posted by wittyworks
(Post 800634)
Wow that looks awesome. What thickness are the pieces you used for the runners, and what did you use to polish everything?
Looks great! |
10 Attachment(s)
I bought my 94 in 2004 with less than 8,000 miles on it. Dyno'ed it on a Dynapack, made 98 whp!
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 My first turbo setup was a custom T3/T4 40 trim, which pretty much sucked. It was based on an ETD racing long tube manifold, ebay intercooler, all custom plumbing and a LINK ecu with RC 550s and a Walbro 190 HP. Made 227 hp (forget the torque - 190?) at 14 psi. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 Then I went to a GT28RS drop in replacement from ATP, which made much better power. Fabbed a 3" exhaust, made 268whp/250wtq at 15 psi. Ran this way for more than a few years until this past summer, when I started to hear an exhaust leak and found two cracks in the outermost runners of my manifold, and a crack in the downpipe. At this point the car has about 25k miles on it, so I got about 15k out of the ETD manifold (probably about 15-20 autocrosses, lots of daily boosting, a couple trips to the dragstrip). https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 I vee'd out the cracks and welded the manifold and downpipe back up, but then I started checking out the forums again, which I haven't done in a few years, and I started seeing some of the awesome stuff coming from ARTech and Absurdflow (and Tial), which got me inspired. I always disliked my ETD manifold because the turbo sits up high, which makes anything more than a 2.5" downpipe almost impossible. So i decided to revamp the whole system and take a crack at building my own manifold, and while I am at it a 3" downpipe to mate up with the 3" exhaust. Since I am an engineer and CAD is what I do, naturally I had to design the manifold in SolidWorks. After 5 iterations I had a design that I liked and thought I could fabricate. Since I designed it in SW, I was able to make sure all of the runners were the same exact length and also designed a fixture at the same time. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322716954 It is still a work in progress, but here are a bunch of pictures of the progress so far. I started fabricating in September, and now that winter is here the car is going nowhere fast. |
18 Attachment(s)
Almost done...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 Test fitting https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 Cutting port for EWG.. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322717859 More to come as it progresses! |
I can't explain how awesome this is in words. Im planning on doing a similar manifold to this for my next build, I have to learn solidworks so I can design the equal length runners.
How much was the flange in stainless from sls? I didn't see a price for stainless. Is it 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick? |
Originally Posted by wittyworks
(Post 801030)
I can't explain how awesome this is in words. Im planning on doing a similar manifold to this for my next build, I have to learn solidworks so I can design the equal length runners.
How much was the flange in stainless from sls? I didn't see a price for stainless. Is it 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick? Let me know if you need some help with SolidWorks, I can give you some tips on how to model it. I can also send you the file for the flanges if you want. |
Oh thank god you learned how to post the pictures properly ;)
(aka: img code) Gorgeous manifold, I'll give you $200 for the whole setup. |
So clean.
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Phenomenal work. Loving the use of Solidworks!
-Sam |
:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:
will be follwing this. thanks for the manifold inspiration. cant wait to start fabbing mine up! i hope it'll look half as good as yours! |
Amazing! I really need to get a TIG and start learning, haha
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Omg. I must see your collector jig. I have never been able to cut a collector that nice with my chop saw!
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11 Attachment(s)
Made some progress on the downpipe and dump tube this weekend!
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323064304 |
Originally Posted by wayne_curr
(Post 801408)
Omg. I must see your collector jig. I have never been able to cut a collector that nice with my chop saw!
1) You have to be able to rotate the pipe a precise amount (depending on the collector angle - I think mine was 86 degrees rotation or something...I used SW to figure it all out!). I used a rotating bubble level for this, and cut a notch in the end of the pipe so I had a flat surface to strap the bubble level thingy to. 2) You have to control how far into the saw the pipe goes - ie if you move the pipe 1/8" further into the saw when you unclamp, rotate and re-clamp it, it wont turn out right. 3) Blade deflection is a biatch. I bought the best blade I could find (made for stainless, more expensive than average - I can get the details if you want) from McMaster Carr to speed up the cutting. Then I held a chunk of 2x4 against the side of the blade as I was cutting (especially when starting the cut) to reduce blade wobble and deflection. Do it outside because the wood will smoke like crazy! Also I use a 12" blade even though the saw is 14" because it reduces deflection. After the cut was complete I just kept sweeping the saw up and down against the piece (while applying pressure with said 2x4 when necessary) to clean up the cut and make sure it was parallel to the the blade as it sits naturally. I spent hours doing that... By the way this is the very first collector/manifold I have ever made, and i only scrapped one extra collector piece because the cut was wrong! |
Wow. Now I have to go find a bottle of personal lubricant.
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Dat Argon.
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I use inventor, not solidworks but I have always struggled with
Making manifolds and things. Not the type of design work I usually do at my job. How do you make the manifold in cad? Treat each bend as a part ? What kind of tools do you use in sw to measure runner length? |
That is the sexiest piece of automotive pr0n i've seen :eek5:
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Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 802478)
It's not really much of a jig to be honest - its just a flat plate with a piece of square tube tacked to it. The plate has some holes/slots so it can bolt to the base of the chop saw and the angle can be adjusted slightly. Then I just clamp the pipe against the square tube with some c-clamps. The hard parts are
1) You have to be able to rotate the pipe a precise amount (depending on the collector angle - I think mine was 86 degrees rotation or something...I used SW to figure it all out!). I used a rotating bubble level for this, and cut a notch in the end of the pipe so I had a flat surface to strap the bubble level thingy to. 2) You have to control how far into the saw the pipe goes - ie if you move the pipe 1/8" further into the saw when you unclamp, rotate and re-clamp it, it wont turn out right. 3) Blade deflection is a biatch. I bought the best blade I could find (made for stainless, more expensive than average - I can get the details if you want) from McMaster Carr to speed up the cutting. Then I held a chunk of 2x4 against the side of the blade as I was cutting (especially when starting the cut) to reduce blade wobble and deflection. Do it outside because the wood will smoke like crazy! Also I use a 12" blade even though the saw is 14" because it reduces deflection. After the cut was complete I just kept sweeping the saw up and down against the piece (while applying pressure with said 2x4 when necessary) to clean up the cut and make sure it was parallel to the the blade as it sits naturally. I spent hours doing that... By the way this is the very first collector/manifold I have ever made, and i only scrapped one extra collector piece because the cut was wrong! |
Gods walk the earth
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Fine work.
Slightly off topic, but what side skirts/ side diffusers are those? |
Originally Posted by 240_to_miata
(Post 802523)
I use inventor, not solidworks but I have always struggled with
Making manifolds and things. Not the type of design work I usually do at my job. How do you make the manifold in cad? Treat each bend as a part ? What kind of tools do you use in sw to measure runner length? |
Originally Posted by vehicular
(Post 802605)
Fine work.
Slightly off topic, but what side skirts/ side diffusers are those? |
Those welds are incredible. Got any tips for laying beads like that other then practice? What kind of filler rod are you using?
P.S. that manifold is beautiful |
Originally Posted by gorillazfan1023
(Post 802810)
Those welds are incredible. Got any tips for laying beads like that other then practice? What kind of filler rod are you using?
P.S. that manifold is beautiful Seriously though, its funny that you ask becuase I just posted a topic about welding: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/tips-tig-welding-thin-walled-stainless-please-61982/ |
Originally Posted by wayne_curr
(Post 802592)
Hmm, I had a similar setup the last time I cut collectors with my chop saw. You seem to have figured out ways around all the problems I had. I think blade deflection and getting the cut depth correct was the biggest bitch for me. Thanks for the details. I'm going to give it a shot again here soonish. I would like details on that blade if you wouldn't mind.
The blade is from McMaster Carr, part number 4173A71. It is made by SAIT. http://www.mcmaster.com/#cutoff-wheels/=f8svcf I think the biggest thing is, once you finish the cut, put the blade down so it is past the part, get eye level with it and see if the blade surface is contacting the whole face of the cut. If it is only touching the part toward the bottom, and there is daylight at the top of the part then the blade deflected while cutting. That's when you start finessing it by sweeping the blade up and down and applying a side load with the 2x4. Obviously it is best if you can get it to cut straight the first time though, which I found requires a considerable amount of steady side pressure with the 2x4. Go slow. The more agressive, smaller 12" blade helps too - when I first started I was using a 14" Ryobi blade that came with the saw which obviously wasnt the best (in fact I did the whole thing with that blade, I didn't get the new one until I started trimming the collector and cutting the other straight pieces but I could tell that it cuts far better). |
The next time a newb cries about me ethugging him, I'm linking him to this thread as an example of what a first thread should look like.
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Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 802929)
Thats becuase I only took pictures of the good ones ;)
Seriously though, its funny that you ask becuase I just posted a topic about welding: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=61982 Good luck with the rest of your build! |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 802942)
The next time a newb cries about me ethugging him, I'm linking him to this thread as an example of what a first thread should look like.
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Originally Posted by 240_to_miata
(Post 802523)
I use inventor, not solidworks but I have always struggled with
Making manifolds and things. Not the type of design work I usually do at my job. How do you make the manifold in cad? Treat each bend as a part ? What kind of tools do you use in sw to measure runner length? I first modeled the flanges (head flange and v-band). Then I modeled the collector/v-band as a sub assembly, and put it into a final assembly along with the head flange and positioned to the two in space relative to one another based on the coordinates that I determined with a wooden mockup in the car. Then I modeled each of the four runners "in context" within the assembly, so that changing the position/angle/rotation of the collector (even the merge angle) in spatial relation to the head flange would cause the runners to automatically update. In this manner the assembly is "intelligent" so I can explore different options without remodeling everything. Each runner is basically a profile sketch and a 3D path sketch to form a sweep. If you are careful when making the 3D sketch, you can ensure that each bend fits within the 90 degree limitation of weld elbows - i.e. if you create a bend that needs to be 185 degrees, it's probably a bad idea because you will then need two 90's plus a 5 degree sliver! All you need to do to determine runner length is measure the length of the line segment in the 3D path sketch. Then just keep tweaking the sketches and other parameters until all runners are equal. After that I took it a step further and modeled each individual pipe/elbow in context of the assembly based off the individual line segments of the 3D sketches of the four individual runners. This let me make a 1:1 scale drawing of each individual part (very handy because you can lay an elbow on the paper and trim it exactly until you achieve the correct bend angle), and even group them into sub assemblies to explore different assembly sequences and determine which parts I could weld up first before trimming them and welding them into the final assembly. I *almost* went to the extent of modeling my TIG torch to see how it well it would fit into various places, but then I realized that my OCD was kicking in and said fuck it. Then I modeled the welding fixture in context of the assembly, and fabricated it on the mill in our machine shop at work. Surprisingly, I was able to pre-cut all of the pieces, and only had to trim two of them a hair when I started to do the final assembly. So essentially, I can say with a high level of confidence that the runners are equal length to within about .060" or so. If I had access to the flow simulation add-in for SolidWorks, I would have strongly considered doing a flow analysis. As JKav states, equal length is not as important as equal flow! I will say this: when making a manifold of this intricacy, order of operations is KEY. I hope at least some of the above makes sense. Finishing a very strong whiskey and Coke as I type this. At least those versed in SolidWorks might understand it. |
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 801070)
Oh thank god you learned how to post the pictures properly ;)
(aka: img code) Gorgeous manifold, I'll give you $200 for the whole setup.
Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 803298)
To be honest I used a rather complicated technique, and I'm not sure how much of it would be comparable between Inventor and SolidWorks. But if you must know...
I first modeled the flanges (head flange and v-band). Then I modeled the collector/v-band as a sub assembly, and put it into a final assembly along with the head flange and positioned to the two in space relative to one another based on the coordinates that I determined with a wooden mockup in the car. Then I modeled each of the four runners "in context" within the assembly, so that changing the position/angle/rotation of the collector (even the merge angle) in spatial relation to the head flange would cause the runners to automatically update. In this manner the assembly is "intelligent" so I can explore different options without remodeling everything. Each runner is basically a profile sketch and a 3D path sketch to form a sweep. If you are careful when making the 3D sketch, you can ensure that each bend fits within the 90 degree limitation of weld elbows - i.e. if you create a bend that needs to be 185 degrees, it's probably a bad idea because you will then need two 90's plus a 5 degree sliver! All you need to do to determine runner length is measure the length of the line segment in the 3D path sketch. Then just keep tweaking the sketches and other parameters until all runners are equal. After that I took it a step further and modeled each individual pipe/elbow in context of the assembly based off the individual line segments of the 3D sketches of the four individual runners. This let me make a 1:1 scale drawing of each individual part (very handy because you can lay an elbow on the paper and trim it exactly until you achieve the correct bend angle), and even group them into sub assemblies to explore different assembly sequences and determine which parts I could weld up first before trimming them and welding them into the final assembly. I *almost* went to the extent of modeling my TIG torch to see how it well it would fit into various places, but then I realized that my OCD was kicking in and said fuck it. Then I modeled the welding fixture in context of the assembly, and fabricated it on the mill in our machine shop at work. Surprisingly, I was able to pre-cut all of the pieces, and only had to trim two of them a hair when I started to do the final assembly. So essentially, I can say with a high level of confidence that the runners are equal length to within about .060" or so. If I had access to the flow simulation add-in for SolidWorks, I would have strongly considered doing a flow analysis. As JKav states, equal length is not as important as equal flow! I will say this: when making a manifold of this intricacy, order of operations is KEY. I hope at least some of the above makes sense. Finishing a very strong whiskey and Coke as I type this. At least those versed in SolidWorks might understand it. |
So what someone can do to get the SolidWorks file for the flange? :)
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Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 803298)
To be honest I used a rather complicated technique, and I'm not sure how much of it would be comparable between Inventor and SolidWorks. But if you must know...
I first modeled the flanges (head flange and v-band). Then I modeled the collector/v-band as a sub assembly, and put it into a final assembly along with the head flange and positioned to the two in space relative to one another based on the coordinates that I determined with a wooden mockup in the car. Then I modeled each of the four runners "in context" within the assembly, so that changing the position/angle/rotation of the collector (even the merge angle) in spatial relation to the head flange would cause the runners to automatically update. In this manner the assembly is "intelligent" so I can explore different options without remodeling everything. Each runner is basically a profile sketch and a 3D path sketch to form a sweep. If you are careful when making the 3D sketch, you can ensure that each bend fits within the 90 degree limitation of weld elbows - i.e. if you create a bend that needs to be 185 degrees, it's probably a bad idea because you will then need two 90's plus a 5 degree sliver! All you need to do to determine runner length is measure the length of the line segment in the 3D path sketch. Then just keep tweaking the sketches and other parameters until all runners are equal. After that I took it a step further and modeled each individual pipe/elbow in context of the assembly based off the individual line segments of the 3D sketches of the four individual runners. This let me make a 1:1 scale drawing of each individual part (very handy because you can lay an elbow on the paper and trim it exactly until you achieve the correct bend angle), and even group them into sub assemblies to explore different assembly sequences and determine which parts I could weld up first before trimming them and welding them into the final assembly. I *almost* went to the extent of modeling my TIG torch to see how it well it would fit into various places, but then I realized that my OCD was kicking in and said fuck it. Then I modeled the welding fixture in context of the assembly, and fabricated it on the mill in our machine shop at work. Surprisingly, I was able to pre-cut all of the pieces, and only had to trim two of them a hair when I started to do the final assembly. So essentially, I can say with a high level of confidence that the runners are equal length to within about .060" or so. If I had access to the flow simulation add-in for SolidWorks, I would have strongly considered doing a flow analysis. As JKav states, equal length is not as important as equal flow! I will say this: when making a manifold of this intricacy, order of operations is KEY. I hope at least some of the above makes sense. Finishing a very strong whiskey and Coke as I type this. At least those versed in SolidWorks might understand it. I have inventors add-in for fluid analysis. I havent messed with it too much, but I used a bit of CFD in college, so I might be able to play around with your manifold for shits if you want to send me a step or iges file. Not sure how all the surfaces will convert, but its worth a shot. PM me if you want. |
This is the first I've seen this thread, excellent job. I am impressed. It makes my stuff look ghetto!
-Polishing those weld elbows must have taken an incredible amount of time. I can't fathom that. Just taking them to the wire wheel takes too long. -Very nice weld fixture. -I am also impressed you were able to cut the collector with a chop saw (my tool of choice cause i'm impatient). I never tried, but in my mine it wasn't possible while keeping your fingers or not scrapping a lot of material. I use a horizontal band saw and tack the pipe to a fixture. I do the first cut on each of the 4 pipes, tack pairs together, cut the second cut on each pair, then tack together the full collector, cause the angle from one cut to the other on each indivitual pipe isn't the same for my collectors (i.e. the axis of each pipe does not point to the same spot within the flange). -I am glad to see the use of Solidworks and an explaination of it's use, along with your full process. I'm glad I'm not the only one whipping up wooden mockups first. ;) I have tried to model manifolds within solidworks a few different ways, but my current method is perhaps slightly different than yours. I do not have much experience defining parts within an assembly; not sure why, but it's a pet pieve of mine. Perhaps cause a co-worker does it daily, then explodes the relations and fixes everything so you can't ever modify anything easily. Anyway...I will have to try your method, it may be easier. With the exception of the flanges, my manifolds are modeled within a single part file using individual 3D sketches for each primary pipe path, starting at a sketch that is the head flange geometry (which also doubles as the cross section sketch for the swept 'feature'/pipe) and ending at the entry location of the collector. Within each individual primary pipe's 3D path sketch are however many 2D sketch planes needed (I try to limit it to 3 or 4) to define the path within the confines of whatever weld elbow geometry you have available (i.e. 2.25" and 1.5" radii for 1.5" pipe). Therefore I often do use greater angles than 90deg. Pipes and straights that are tangent to each other and can be constrained/defined within a 2D plane (the 2D sketch planes in this case) are done so, and the angles between each 2D sketch plane or sketch plane and the datum define the pipe's shape. Again, this is done within the individual 3D sketch of each primary tube. Once each primary path is done, I sweep the cross section and the rest is easy. So far I use only 1 collector because, for me, it was a PITA and confusing to get the angles out of it for the cut fixture. Wait, what? It can get real messy, real quick. Solidworks likes to flip the constraints over on you making stuff all sorts of crazy. I save often. It takes a computer more powerful than the one I have at home to do it right but I still manage somehow...i need to find a better way ;) It doesn't help that I have SW2007 at home and 2011 at work, so I can't open work's files at home. I have to try to remember what worked and redo it (with the wife's trackball...ugh). I mean, I can move/rotate/angle the collector flange within it's defined parameters and hit refresh and, within reason, it will update just fine, but ideally I'd like to also be able to grab each primary pipe and drag it real-time. I think using a "flexible" assembly process with individual bend/straight sections may be able to do this... Are you using all 2.25" radius bends? Christ man, very nice. This has my vote on best flowing equal length mani to date. I had to use some 1.5" radii bends on Lars' to get it 'equal' within .020" theoretically (14.350" OAL), whereas the all 2.25" radii version has 11.750" long 1 & 4 primaries. Does it clear the hood? |
Originally Posted by bcrx7
(Post 804062)
So what someone can do to get the SolidWorks file for the flange? :)
Honestly its such a good deal to just buy one from SLS, I don't know if it would be worth your time to write the program and CNC one, even if you had the equipment? |
1 Attachment(s)
Ha, I forgot i did this one. Modeled but never built. Looks similar, great minds think alike, eh? I think mine still uses some 1.5" radius bends tho.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323405728 |
Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 804166)
Not sure if you would want it, because I know for a fact that the hole locations for the manifold studs are a bit off. They were close enough that the flange I bought from SLS still fit on my assembly jig (there was enough clearance in the hole of the flange to the 3/8" bolts I used, luckily).
Honestly its such a good deal to just buy one from SLS, I don't know if it would be worth your time to write the program and CNC one, even if you had the equipment? |
More :2cents:
Add a brace to the end of your EWG dump if you plan on leaving it VTA. If you plan on blending it (and maybe even if you plan on VTA), add a flex in there. Vibrant makes a nice smoothliner 1.5" pipe, short flex. It's a lot nicer than others. There's a few others making them that I saw at PRI but vibrant is easy to deal with typically. Also, vibrant makes a super dooper tight radius 1.5" Ubends that may make your EWG routing/life more enjoyable. |
Originally Posted by TurboTim
(Post 804164)
This is the first I've seen this thread, excellent job. I am impressed. It makes my stuff look ghetto!
-Polishing those weld elbows must have taken an incredible amount of time. I can't fathom that. Just taking them to the wire wheel takes too long. -Very nice weld fixture. -I am also impressed you were able to cut the collector with a chop saw (my tool of choice cause i'm impatient). I never tried, but in my mine it wasn't possible while keeping your fingers or not scrapping a lot of material. I use a horizontal band saw and tack the pipe to a fixture. I do the first cut on each of the 4 pipes, tack pairs together, cut the second cut on each pair, then tack together the full collector, cause the angle from one cut to the other on each indivitual pipe isn't the same for my collectors (i.e. the axis of each pipe does not point to the same spot within the flange). -I am glad to see the use of Solidworks and an explaination of it's use, along with your full process. I'm glad I'm not the only one whipping up wooden mockups first. ;) I have tried to model manifolds within solidworks a few different ways, but my current method is perhaps slightly different than yours. I do not have much experience defining parts within an assembly; not sure why, but it's a pet pieve of mine. Perhaps cause a co-worker does it daily, then explodes the relations and fixes everything so you can't ever modify anything easily. Anyway...I will have to try your method, it may be easier. With the exception of the flanges, my manifolds are modeled within a single part file using individual 3D sketches for each primary pipe path, starting at a sketch that is the head flange geometry (which also doubles as the cross section sketch for the swept 'feature'/pipe) and ending at the entry location of the collector. Within each individual primary pipe's 3D path sketch are however many 2D sketch planes needed (I try to limit it to 3 or 4) to define the path within the confines of whatever weld elbow geometry you have available (i.e. 2.25" and 1.5" radii for 1.5" pipe). Therefore I often do use greater angles than 90deg. Pipes and straights that are tangent to each other and can be constrained/defined within a 2D plane (the 2D sketch planes in this case) are done so, and the angles between each 2D sketch plane or sketch plane and the datum define the pipe's shape. Again, this is done within the individual 3D sketch of each primary tube. Once each primary path is done, I sweep the cross section and the rest is easy. So far I use only 1 collector because, for me, it was a PITA and confusing to get the angles out of it for the cut fixture. Wait, what? It can get real messy, real quick. Solidworks likes to flip the constraints over on you making stuff all sorts of crazy. I save often. It takes a computer more powerful than the one I have at home to do it right but I still manage somehow...i need to find a better way ;) It doesn't help that I have SW2007 at home and 2011 at work, so I can't open work's files at home. I have to try to remember what worked and redo it (with the wife's trackball...ugh). I mean, I can move/rotate/angle the collector flange within it's defined parameters and hit refresh and, within reason, it will update just fine, but ideally I'd like to also be able to grab each primary pipe and drag it real-time. I think using a "flexible" assembly process with individual bend/straight sections may be able to do this... Are you using all 2.25" radius bends? Christ man, very nice. This has my vote on best flowing equal length mani to date. I had to use some 1.5" radii bends on Lars' to get it 'equal' within .020" theoretically (14.350" OAL), whereas the all 2.25" radii version has 11.750" long 1 & 4 primaries. Does it clear the hood? http://www.absurdflow.com/miata/acps...mhornequal.jpg was my inspiration for this manifold. In fact finding your website was what planted the seed in my brain to build my own manifold. I emailed you back in July because I wanted you to build it for me but you said you weren't building anything in the summer months. So it's all your fault ;) Modeling parts in context is the way to go. In SW 2011 you can even save the parts within the assembly, so you can actually have an assembly of many parts all contained within just one file. I agree that you have to take extra precautions when doing so though - and you have to especially careful when making revisions (careful use of pack-and-go is key). I went through 5 iterations of my design before I started building. I don't use any planes at all when doing the 3D path sketches - I'm not really sure why you would need to? Yes I used all long radius 1-1/4" schedule 40 elbows - can't remember the CLR off the top of my head but 2.25" sounds right. Also you are right about the polishing - probably took about 6-8 hours to sand out and polish everything. |
Damnit Tim you are too quick! You already caught onto me...
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Originally Posted by TurboTim
(Post 804173)
Vibrant makes a nice smoothliner 1.5" pipe, short flex.
https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....1&postcount=30 |
BWAahhaha. I edit and edit and edit my posts too. Yep, absurdflow = me. I'm glad I didn't do your mani, you gave me...us all another milestone to aim towards.
There aren't too many CAD guys where I work so I don't have the chance to learn new ways to model from other guys. 99% of my continuing modeling education is accidental or by paging thru solidworks website when I have the time (rarely). It's be cool to work with someone like you. |
Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 804178)
Just received one in the mail yesterday...copied you on that one again...I should start paying you royalties or something...
https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....1&postcount=30 |
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by TurboTim
(Post 804181)
BWAahhaha. I edit and edit and edit my posts too. Yep, absurdflow = me. I'm glad I didn't do your mani, you gave me...us all another milestone to aim towards.
There aren't too many CAD guys where I work so I don't have the chance to learn new ways to model from other guys. 99% of my continuing modeling education is accidental or by paging thru solidworks website when I have the time (rarely). It's be cool to work with someone like you. To answer your question, it clears the hood by a mile. If you were to put a straight edge across the lettering on the valve cover and extend it over the manifold, the top of the runners would clear the straight edge by about 3/8". The turbo location I am using it slightly higher than the Absurdflow AC/PS location, so I had to use a suboptimal 23 degree merge angle to save some space - thats really the only compromise in the design. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323408143 |
Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 804185)
Thanks Tim, I'm happy to help if you have any SolidWorks questions - I have been using it for 8 years, almost daily.
To answer your question, it clears the hood by a mile. If you were to put a straight edge across the lettering on the valve cover and extend it over the manifold, the top of the runners would clear the straight edge by about 3/8". The turbo location I am using it slightly higher than the Absurdflow AC/PS location, so I had to use a suboptimal 23 degree merge angle to save some space - thats really the only compromise in the design. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323407921 |
Originally Posted by TurboTim
(Post 804189)
ah ha...f*cking tits. That's always an oh boy moment for me but surprisingly the aluminum hood conducts enough heat that the paint doesn't burn on the top side even if the stainless is touching a little...not that I know....
I will send you my SW file - if you pay me royalties on each one you build ;) .... |
Turbotim I LOLed at your comment about a Coworker defining parts in an assembly and making constraints blow up and designs impossible to edit. This describes my boss exactly. He will make a 2d skeletal model and relate EVERYTHING back to it. It's a huge mess of irrelevant relationships. Makes me pull my hair put.
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This is a great looking manifold !! Would you be interested to build another one while you got things out of the car :rofl: ??
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Realistically, I would probably have to charge A LOT to make it worth my time.
Talk to Tim at Absurdflow... |
Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 805789)
Talk to Tim at Absurdflow...
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haha yeah I was about to reply with that. But i can still do manifolds, just not downpipes.
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I really want an equal length tubular design manifold for my build. I haven't found one easy to install with AC/PS. I decided to go with Tim's tubular FM replacement, so I contacted him bout it last week. As he said here, he offered to build the manifold but then I had to find someone to build the DP which would have been another issue. I have been in contact with Abe since about his design and he has been very helpful.
But if you are willing to build another one I'm down to pay for your time and wait since I'm in no rush for this build and rather do it once the right way and get what I really want. |
BTW, I tried to respond to your PM but I couldn't so you can email me jdmpalace@gmail.com
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Sooo Crazyy! Makes me wish i would have taken the time to model my final design in Solidworks.. How long do you figure till you pull it out of the garage?
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Probably May...when the snow is gone and most of the salt has washed off of the roads. Patience....
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4 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by mx592
(Post 804166)
Not sure if you would want it, because I know for a fact that the hole locations for the manifold studs are a bit off. They were close enough that the flange I bought from SLS still fit on my assembly jig (there was enough clearance in the hole of the flange to the 3/8" bolts I used, luckily).
Honestly its such a good deal to just buy one from SLS, I don't know if it would be worth your time to write the program and CNC one, even if you had the equipment? But thank you for this and pushing some of us to think outside the box and giving us some excellent ideas. Amazing work!!! |
Thanks. |
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