Be Careful When Selling Rabbits
05-22-2011, 10:17 AM
#21
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because its full of sugar and an awful excuse to justify the need. its seriously political and the milk industry lobbies for it and makes deals with the school board.
WHOLE MILK FTW.
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05-22-2011, 11:55 AM
#23
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It's the American way. Take something healthy, process the **** out of it, and pack it full of sugar. Then when someone calls you on it, send in the lobbyists. Thank god they lost that battle.
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05-22-2011, 01:37 PM
#28
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But there are always going to be people on both sides of the argument, and people will speak their opinions about it. You won't find that very often in other parts of the world. Unfortunately the dumb people seem to speak the loudest sometimes.
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05-22-2011, 01:47 PM
#29
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I was responding to Joe, not you man.
Don't let my location fool you, I am as American as you are. I'm from New Orleans and left after Katrina. This may go some way to explaining why I may come off as anti U.S. govt sometimes, but I am a very patriotic guy. I love what the US says it is, but I am embarrassed by what it is.
Don't worry though, I **** and moan about England on the British forums too. And of course be being the immigrant here I bet you can guess how that goes.
Don't let my location fool you, I am as American as you are. I'm from New Orleans and left after Katrina. This may go some way to explaining why I may come off as anti U.S. govt sometimes, but I am a very patriotic guy. I love what the US says it is, but I am embarrassed by what it is.
Don't worry though, I **** and moan about England on the British forums too. And of course be being the immigrant here I bet you can guess how that goes.
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05-22-2011, 02:34 PM
#31
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By contrast, we make it quite a bit more difficult for pretty much anyone other than from Mexico or Canada to enter the US, to say nothing of immigrating to it.
So what does it actually entail for an American to immigrate into the UK?
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05-22-2011, 03:15 PM
#32
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Well aside from claiming asylum and all that crap, there are 2 ways to get in.
The first is called the "highly skilled migrant" program. It is basically a points system. education gets you points, being young gets you points (on the assumption you will work/pay taxes longer), and earning potential gets you points; So they will assign more points to specific industries. That changes from year to year, but as you can imagine medicine and engineering gets points. A degree in history not so much (guess what my degree is in).
And the other way is of course a student Visa. Thats how we did it, my wife signed up to get her masters in radio production, at a university here in England. Then she got a job with the BBC before that Visa ran out, and talked them into sponsoring her for a work Visa. I have been on a dependent Visa all along. I am a mechanic and work at a muscle car restorer, so there is no way I would make the points, and it would cost my employer over 5 grand to sponsor me for a work visa. And it would be declined anyway as they would not be able to prove that I can do anything an Englishman can't. and they wouldn't get the 5 grand back.
So I will not be getting divorced then.
They are clamping down on this stuff like mad since the new prime minister came to power as it is now a conservative govt. One of their big issues is immigrants. Since membership in the EU means everyone can work in whatever country they want, and England has the strongest currency (or rather the only country not on the euro) everyone from eastern europe has moved here and is sending the money back home. All the same stuff everyone says about mexicans in the states but they are here legally in this case. Its a BIG issue for alot of people here. all the waiters and gas station attendants are polish. Doesn't bother me as the women are usually georgous and the guys have in my experience been pretty cool. But it aint jolly old England anymore. So the conservative govt needs to get results and they squeeze the non EU immigrants because its all they can do to keep their voters happy. as a result the law is constantly in flux and when this visa runs out (in 3 years) there is every chance they will have raised the limits and we will not get the next one.
Funny thing is, my mother is British and that does me no good at all. If I had applied for a UK passport before I was 18, then fine. Or if it was my father that was British then also fine. but not my mother with me past 18. Old victorian laws.
So to visit is easy, but actually living and working (legally) is an absolute pain in the ***.
And since we are not full UK citizens we have "no recourse to public funds". that means basically no tax credits. We get free health care and all that, but we pay full tax rate. For most people here they start at full tax rate and adjust it down based on how many kids you have, your income level, your education level, what you can afford, ect. Not for us. If I was a uk citizen I would make $4000 more per year at my current pay level.
On the plus side I am only a 5 hour drive from the nurburgring. Its just about worth it.
The first is called the "highly skilled migrant" program. It is basically a points system. education gets you points, being young gets you points (on the assumption you will work/pay taxes longer), and earning potential gets you points; So they will assign more points to specific industries. That changes from year to year, but as you can imagine medicine and engineering gets points. A degree in history not so much (guess what my degree is in).
And the other way is of course a student Visa. Thats how we did it, my wife signed up to get her masters in radio production, at a university here in England. Then she got a job with the BBC before that Visa ran out, and talked them into sponsoring her for a work Visa. I have been on a dependent Visa all along. I am a mechanic and work at a muscle car restorer, so there is no way I would make the points, and it would cost my employer over 5 grand to sponsor me for a work visa. And it would be declined anyway as they would not be able to prove that I can do anything an Englishman can't. and they wouldn't get the 5 grand back.
So I will not be getting divorced then.
They are clamping down on this stuff like mad since the new prime minister came to power as it is now a conservative govt. One of their big issues is immigrants. Since membership in the EU means everyone can work in whatever country they want, and England has the strongest currency (or rather the only country not on the euro) everyone from eastern europe has moved here and is sending the money back home. All the same stuff everyone says about mexicans in the states but they are here legally in this case. Its a BIG issue for alot of people here. all the waiters and gas station attendants are polish. Doesn't bother me as the women are usually georgous and the guys have in my experience been pretty cool. But it aint jolly old England anymore. So the conservative govt needs to get results and they squeeze the non EU immigrants because its all they can do to keep their voters happy. as a result the law is constantly in flux and when this visa runs out (in 3 years) there is every chance they will have raised the limits and we will not get the next one.
Funny thing is, my mother is British and that does me no good at all. If I had applied for a UK passport before I was 18, then fine. Or if it was my father that was British then also fine. but not my mother with me past 18. Old victorian laws.
So to visit is easy, but actually living and working (legally) is an absolute pain in the ***.
And since we are not full UK citizens we have "no recourse to public funds". that means basically no tax credits. We get free health care and all that, but we pay full tax rate. For most people here they start at full tax rate and adjust it down based on how many kids you have, your income level, your education level, what you can afford, ect. Not for us. If I was a uk citizen I would make $4000 more per year at my current pay level.
On the plus side I am only a 5 hour drive from the nurburgring. Its just about worth it.
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05-22-2011, 03:37 PM
#33
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I'm interested in what it takes to live in the UK as well.
But Joe don't include Mexico in that easy to get into the US stuff. One of my Coworkers (She is now here Legally BTW) had every intention to do things the right way when she last flew into the United States from Mexico. She's a developer and previously was in SAP she wasn't coming here to steal a cheap job as a laborer, in fact after she left she finished her visit here she was going to be doing SAP work in Brazil. When she came in they asked what was the nature of her visit. She explained, and said she was coming for a vacation and expected to say about a few months with friends and family. Now lets consider shes not driving across the border shes flying in. This means tickets tend to have dates and arrangements have to be made. This is not a oh just turn around at and drive back home. She was told in stead of the few months she had planned she would have to leave in a few of days. (I don't recall the exact number but it was less than a week)
Ok, so for no obvious reason, or at least no reason that she wasn't given they cut her trip short.
In the end because of how things worked out she ended up breaking the law by over staying the few days allowed. Fortunately within a couple months she married her Boyfriend who was the friend she was going to be staying with.
To make a long story short she planned on doing the right thing, and because what seems like an arbitrary judgement she ended breaking the law. Fortunately for her she was able to make things legit later, but its still sad.
A couple of years later, this woman is married with a child on the way, and just purchased her first home. I say she did, because she is the primary earner in the family.
Oh its not always easy coming in from Canada either, but that's a completely different story.
But Joe don't include Mexico in that easy to get into the US stuff. One of my Coworkers (She is now here Legally BTW) had every intention to do things the right way when she last flew into the United States from Mexico. She's a developer and previously was in SAP she wasn't coming here to steal a cheap job as a laborer, in fact after she left she finished her visit here she was going to be doing SAP work in Brazil. When she came in they asked what was the nature of her visit. She explained, and said she was coming for a vacation and expected to say about a few months with friends and family. Now lets consider shes not driving across the border shes flying in. This means tickets tend to have dates and arrangements have to be made. This is not a oh just turn around at and drive back home. She was told in stead of the few months she had planned she would have to leave in a few of days. (I don't recall the exact number but it was less than a week)
Ok, so for no obvious reason, or at least no reason that she wasn't given they cut her trip short.
In the end because of how things worked out she ended up breaking the law by over staying the few days allowed. Fortunately within a couple months she married her Boyfriend who was the friend she was going to be staying with.
To make a long story short she planned on doing the right thing, and because what seems like an arbitrary judgement she ended breaking the law. Fortunately for her she was able to make things legit later, but its still sad.
A couple of years later, this woman is married with a child on the way, and just purchased her first home. I say she did, because she is the primary earner in the family.
Oh its not always easy coming in from Canada either, but that's a completely different story.
Actually, I've long been quite curious about this. One thing which I find interesting is how easy it is for US citizens to travel in Europe (or at least, in the EU)- no Visa required, just show up at the front door and present your passport. They don't even ask why you're there or how long you plan to stay.
By contrast, we make it quite a bit more difficult for pretty much anyone other than from Mexico or Canada to enter the US, to say nothing of immigrating to it.
So what does it actually entail for an American to immigrate into the UK?
By contrast, we make it quite a bit more difficult for pretty much anyone other than from Mexico or Canada to enter the US, to say nothing of immigrating to it.
So what does it actually entail for an American to immigrate into the UK?
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05-22-2011, 04:25 PM
#34
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What I meant is that there's no Visa requirement. Citizens of Canada, Mexico and Bermuda are specifically excluded from all Visa requirements except under certain very specific circumstances.
Here is the US State Department's page on the subject: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/wi...hout_1260.html
Actually, I just did a little research, and found out about the Visa Waiver Program. Apparently citizens of most of Europe can come into the US for up to 90 days without a Visa, provided that they go through ESTA and pay a $14 administrative fee. Still, this is quite a lot more complicated than a US citizen travelling into the EU, where you literally just get off the plane, show your passport at customs, and walk right in without paying any fees or giving them any information. (When I entered through CDG last year, they literally did not ask me a single question. Just stamped the passport and let me right on in.)
Here is the US State Department's page on the subject: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/wi...hout_1260.html
Actually, I just did a little research, and found out about the Visa Waiver Program. Apparently citizens of most of Europe can come into the US for up to 90 days without a Visa, provided that they go through ESTA and pay a $14 administrative fee. Still, this is quite a lot more complicated than a US citizen travelling into the EU, where you literally just get off the plane, show your passport at customs, and walk right in without paying any fees or giving them any information. (When I entered through CDG last year, they literally did not ask me a single question. Just stamped the passport and let me right on in.)
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05-22-2011, 04:37 PM
#35
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That's the 9/11 factor. It used to be the same going both ways everyone here grumbles about it now. As you say I waltze right in when we go home, but the brits have to apply for the visa ahead of time.
Security is the same story. Much more lax here. We were in New Orleans last month, flight thru Charlotte. Went out for a smoke between flights and getting back in was MUCH more hassle than the flight from London. Same bag checks for fluids and such, but none of the pat downs or backscatter scanners (or whatever they are called) in London. They even let you keep your shoes on here.
I won't argue that it's any safer the Brit way, and in fact I know it isn't, but it's much easier.
Security is the same story. Much more lax here. We were in New Orleans last month, flight thru Charlotte. Went out for a smoke between flights and getting back in was MUCH more hassle than the flight from London. Same bag checks for fluids and such, but none of the pat downs or backscatter scanners (or whatever they are called) in London. They even let you keep your shoes on here.
I won't argue that it's any safer the Brit way, and in fact I know it isn't, but it's much easier.
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05-22-2011, 04:49 PM
#36
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Travel into Mexico is kind of interesting. For starters, if you cross on foot (my preferred method when I have to go), there is absolutely no border security of any kind. None. But even according to the letter of the law, you don't need a passport to enter Mexico from the US for destinations within the "border zone" (20-30km from the border), however you do need a passport to re-enter the US, even if you are a US citizen.
I wonder what happens if you accidentally leave your passport at home (or are a complete idiot and don't have one), and find yourself stuck and unable to re-enter the US after a long, hard night in Tijuana?
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05-23-2011, 09:06 AM
#39
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The thing I find odd is when you read the statue (which I posted a link too), it just says if you sell more than $500 worth, you are required to be licensed. Fine. I can handle that. The gov't at this point assumes you are housing a **** ton of rabbits and selling then, so they want to make sure they are housed properly and what not according to their standards.
But I can't find any where it says what a penalty would be if you didn't. The inspector that showed up that one day should have told them they were now required to be licensed since they sold x amount in sales to that zoo, and then there wouldn't have ever been this issue.
I realize it's a citizen's responsibility to know the law, but when an inspector comes to your house to look over your **** when currently unlicensed, tells you you ar ein no violation, then tells you a license is still optional, when it wasn't at this point, the inspector is at fault here.
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05-25-2011, 09:14 AM
#40
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Update:
Paying a USDA fine of $90,463 by close of business Monday would have allowed John and Judy Dollarhite on Nixa, Mo., to put their “crime” of selling too many rabbits in a single calendar year in their proverbial “rear-view mirror.” Instead of paying an exorbitant fine for violating an obscure USDA regulation (not a law) decided to fight back.
John Dollarhite told me by phone Tuesday morning that he had his attorney, Richard L. Anderson of Branson West, Mo., write a letter Thursday and deliver it overnite to Roxanne Folk, a senior USDA officials in Riverdale, Md. In the letter, Anderson conveyed in no uncertain terms that his client would not be paying the fine:
Near the end of the letter, he added the following:
It appears a lot of Americans are siding with the Dollarhites in this fight.
“On Sunday, we talked more than 12 hours with people,” Dollarhite said, adding that the phone conversations were with attorneys, members of the media and supporters from across the country. “Yesterday, we were trying to conduct business at our (computer) store and had a lot of our personal customers coming in and pledging their support, and we had a lot of phone calls, too.”
Dollarhite said he’s heard from people all across the country — in Missouri, Florida, Texas, New Mexico and Hawaii, to name a few — who’ve said they are emailing and calling their elected officials to demand action.
Some of those elected officials have offered at least cursory support.
“We did get a phone call from Claire McCaskill’s office,” he said, adding that the aide who called said the Democrat U.S. senator was “really pissed off and was going to do everything she could to try and get this taken care of for us.”
Dollarhite also told me that he was contacted by Bob Kollmeier , one-time business partner-turned agriculture advisor to U.S. Rep. Billy Long, a freshman Republican representing Missouri’s 3rd Congressional District who is familiar.
“(Kollmeier) didn’t really say one way or the other except that he’s gonna make some phone calls and see what he can do for us,” Dollarhite said.
Because of the recent tornado in Joplin, Mo., Dollarhite said he understands that his issue might be pushed aside for a while as his elected officials focus much of their attention on helping storm victims. He does not understand the lack of attention from one of his U.S. senators, but is willing to accept assistance even if it’s late in coming.
“We still have heard nothing whatsoever from Roy Blunt’s office,” Dollarhite said. “There have been numerous emails and numerous phone calls to Roy Blunt’s office and, still, nothing” — except, that is, for a letter he sent [see Senator’s Letter About Horses Does Little to Help Constituent Facing $4 Million Fine Over Rabbits for details].
Now, as the Dollarhites wait for a response from APHIS, their friends are rallying to the cause.
A group known as We Are Change Branson is staging a protest at the USDA Service Center in Ozark, Mo., Wednesday afternoon from 3 to 5. For more details, see my post, Anti-Tyranny Protest Set Wednesday in Ozark, Mo.
John Dollarhite told me by phone Tuesday morning that he had his attorney, Richard L. Anderson of Branson West, Mo., write a letter Thursday and deliver it overnite to Roxanne Folk, a senior USDA officials in Riverdale, Md. In the letter, Anderson conveyed in no uncertain terms that his client would not be paying the fine:
My client rejects that proposal. I note that a descriptive pamphlet enclosed with your letter states, under “Who We Are”, that IES investigates cases received by referral from APHIS’ program clients and cooperators, and that IES “now conducts more than 6,000 cases and collects approximately $ 2 million in civil penalties annually.” That averages a penalty of $ 333.33 per case, and yet you contend it would be appropriate my client tender a penalty of $ 90,643.00.
I cannot imagine that the actions of Mr. Dollarhite would merit a fine or penalty that would be 272 times larger than what the “average” fine ($ 333) collected by the USDA, IES, APHIS would be, under the circumstances of this case, and would certainly hope that a reasonable hearing examiner would agree.
“On Sunday, we talked more than 12 hours with people,” Dollarhite said, adding that the phone conversations were with attorneys, members of the media and supporters from across the country. “Yesterday, we were trying to conduct business at our (computer) store and had a lot of our personal customers coming in and pledging their support, and we had a lot of phone calls, too.”
Dollarhite said he’s heard from people all across the country — in Missouri, Florida, Texas, New Mexico and Hawaii, to name a few — who’ve said they are emailing and calling their elected officials to demand action.
Some of those elected officials have offered at least cursory support.
“We did get a phone call from Claire McCaskill’s office,” he said, adding that the aide who called said the Democrat U.S. senator was “really pissed off and was going to do everything she could to try and get this taken care of for us.”
Dollarhite also told me that he was contacted by Bob Kollmeier , one-time business partner-turned agriculture advisor to U.S. Rep. Billy Long, a freshman Republican representing Missouri’s 3rd Congressional District who is familiar.
“(Kollmeier) didn’t really say one way or the other except that he’s gonna make some phone calls and see what he can do for us,” Dollarhite said.
Because of the recent tornado in Joplin, Mo., Dollarhite said he understands that his issue might be pushed aside for a while as his elected officials focus much of their attention on helping storm victims. He does not understand the lack of attention from one of his U.S. senators, but is willing to accept assistance even if it’s late in coming.
“We still have heard nothing whatsoever from Roy Blunt’s office,” Dollarhite said. “There have been numerous emails and numerous phone calls to Roy Blunt’s office and, still, nothing” — except, that is, for a letter he sent [see Senator’s Letter About Horses Does Little to Help Constituent Facing $4 Million Fine Over Rabbits for details].
Now, as the Dollarhites wait for a response from APHIS, their friends are rallying to the cause.
A group known as We Are Change Branson is staging a protest at the USDA Service Center in Ozark, Mo., Wednesday afternoon from 3 to 5. For more details, see my post, Anti-Tyranny Protest Set Wednesday in Ozark, Mo.
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