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Old 04-08-2010, 09:36 AM   #1
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Default Conflict of Interest?

I just heard GM fined Toyota 16 million dollars. Pretty awesome!
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:46 AM   #2
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Big Three have exponentially more recalls than Toyota?
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:49 AM   #3
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The question at hand is: is it ethical for a business to fine a competitor's business for similar infractions?
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:57 AM   #4
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Pffft. I will tell you whats unethical. Companies focusing on making a PROFIT rather than providing ALL employees and the people in the general vicinity of their operations with free top flight healthcare and 6 weeks paid vacation every year. I hear it works really well in Europe.

Seriously though, the whole Toyota thing makes me laugh. From a PR and legislative standpoint it reminds me of the witch hunt on 80s Audis. The talking heads are thrilled to be able to pick on a off-shore company. And LOL at Toyo for the damned Prius in general.

How the eff does GM get to 'fine' Toyo though? I can see them suing if some components they get from Toyo are defective or something, but 'fine'?

Wait, I get it. GM is basically the dept. of transportation now, so technically they can enforce the law since they are are basically a gov agency. See folks, nothing to worry about!
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:59 AM   #5
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Sorry, when I use the acronym GM, I'm shortening Government Motors.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:29 AM   #6
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:02 PM   #7
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I am bad with stuff like that, i read the article, dumb redneck terms please?
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:04 PM   #8
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The Federal Gov't owns a large part of GM.

The Gov't fined Toyota, a major competitor.

Some call this a conflict of interest.

:insert political theory:

The end.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:07 PM   #9
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Why is this surprising? Government-subsidized businesses never play by the rules. I'm looking forward to watching GM become the United States Post Office of the automotive world.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The Federal Gov't owns a large part of GM.

The Gov't fined Toyota, a major competitor.

Some call this a conflict of interest.

:insert political theory:

The end.
Historically ie before GM became government motors has the fed ever fined a automaker to this extent for similar safety issues?
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:12 PM   #11
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no, this is a record amount.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:14 PM   #12
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And not just a record amount, but actually the largest fine the NHTSA is authorized to levy.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:21 PM   #13
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Can I fine GM for producing garbage regardless of any safety hazard?
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:25 PM   #14
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I blame Ralph Nader for this compulsive obsession with safety.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I blame Ralph Nader for this compulsive obsession with safety.
The president is laughing cause he voted for Nader!
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thymer View Post
Historically ie before GM became government motors has the fed ever fined a automaker to this extent for similar safety issues?
Or have they ever issued a fine so quickly, when the issue or cause still isn't completely resolved? Don't they usually investigate these things for years?


I wish government would let the free market sort things out. Let the lawsuits punish Toyota if there's cause. Anyone else see all the Toyota website videos on this...they've looked and looked and can't find anything that looks like it's their fault, even with independent investigation. They also proved that the one guy that said their ECU doesn't record that info lied and built an external circuit to trick the ECU.

Either way this is just a media outrage attack on a foreign company that happens to employs half as many Americans as GM. While GM has layed off 40,000 of those employees in two years, Toyota hasn't layed of a single one...

Also consider that your chances of dying while walking are 20 time more likely than being in a runaway Toyota, and that these numbers are skewed by the fact that the number of "incidences" has doubled since the story broke in the national media.

Also, no car on the road makes more torque than the brake system. Most brakes can apply over twice as much torque as the motor can at PEAK power. There are just a lot of parts to this story that don't make sense, and too many coincidences. Toyota asked for it's first ever government loan, for $3B just over a year ago...about the same time everyone else was getting bailouts. Tell me you don't think this is the government protecting their investment at the expense of a successful corporation. Government needs to get out of it, let lawyers, judges and proof sort it out instead of being instantly guilty in the media's eyes.

If there's a real problem I feel for those folks...but they deserve a day in court, not for their government to decide for them what the car market should look like. If anything I assure you more people will eventually die in GM cars due to this government intervention.

GM...on government welfare...will be an absolute nightmare from a quality and safety standpoint. Not to mention we can all kiss performance goodbye.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:24 PM   #17
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GM seems to keep going with horrible cars and horrible decisions.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:42 PM   #18
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Hoestly the really sad thing about GM to me is that they have some truly great engineering. Who has been running HZ based MAF sensors that measure accurately from idle to like 50LB/MN airflow? GM, and they were doing it like a decade before most others. VW only got to it when they went to DI on the 2.0T. Who has been making engines that lead their classes in power, fuel economy, packaging, cost, and reliability? Honestly, take a good look at an LS1 (which is now the better part of 20 years old and thus ancient in automotive engineering) and compare its real-world characteristics to just about any engine. And its basically the weakest of the family. It kicks the ever-loving crap out of anything Ford has made wth the possible (but not likely) exception of the new 5.0. Who figured out a sensible way to make a hybrid by basing the system on the transmission areas of the driveline as opposed to the engine itself? GM.

And yet the crap chassis and interior design, which is relatively simple in compairison, has probably forever stamped GM with a 'crap engineering' image. Short sighted marketing, the UAW, and accountants who looked at shareholder meetings more than long-term perception killed GM. The engineers are the only reason it stayed afloat for as long as it did.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:52 PM   #19
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I parked next to a Pontiac G8 today. It made me sad.
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