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Old 07-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #1
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Default Don't tread on my raisins

One grower’s grapes of wrath - The Washington Post

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A California raisin farmer is facing bankruptcy for defying a law requiring him to give the government a portion of his raisin crop without compensation.

According to a Washington Post report, Marvin Horne, 68, stopped giving the government his raisins in 2002 and now "owes the U.S. government at least $650,000 in unpaid fines," in addition to "1.2 million pounds of unpaid raisins, roughly equal to his entire harvest for four years."

Horne violated Marketing Order 989, passed during the Truman administration, "a federal regulation meant to solve a problem from the era after World War II, which created the national raisin reserve. The program gives the U.S. government a heavy-handed power to interfere with the supply and demand for dried grapes" and takes "away a percentage of every farmerís raisins" without paying for them. The law has been described as one that gives the government the power to operate a cartel.

The government can save the raisins, sell them to foreigners, throw them away, or even feed them to animals -- so long as they are off the domestic market.

The Post notes the government can "use those proceeds to pay its own expenses and to promote raisins overseas" in addition to paying for overhead. And in one recent year, the program generated $65,483,211, and all of it was spent. Horne described the program as the "rape of the raisin growers" and said it made him feel like "a serf."

Brian Leighton, Horne's lawyer, argued the program was unconstitutional because it "violated the Fifth Amendment clause against private property being taken without just compensation," since it was "basically theft."
The case ultimately reached the Supreme Court in June, and "the justices unanimously ordered a federal appeals court in California to take a new look" at Horne's claims.

"If we lose, weíre bankrupt. We wonít have a pot to **** in," Horne said, noting he would be liable for nearly $3 million. "No. I donít want to even think about it. Would you?"
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:10 AM   #2
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Of course, he doesn't realize its to protect and serve his best interests... what a fool.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:13 AM   #3
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Young man, I hear you and your friends are making raisins. But you don't even send any to the white house. No respect! You know I've got two daughters. This is my neighborhood. You and your friends should show me some respect. You should let me wet my beak a little. I hear you and your friends cleared $600,000 a year. Give me $200,000 each, for your own protection. And I'll forget the insult. You young punks have to learn to respect a man like me! Otherwise the cops will come to your house. And your family will be ruined. Of course, if I'm wrong about how much you made, I'll take a little less. And by less, I only mean - a hundred thousand less. Now don't refuse me. Understand, paisan? Understand, paisan?... Tell your friends I don't want a lot. Just enough to wet my beak. Don't be afraid to tell them!


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Old 07-12-2013, 09:14 AM   #4
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I am so thankful this thread is not about your wrinkled *****.


It is hard for me to believe some of the things that still get enforced in government.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:53 AM   #5
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Here is a story that will really make you sad/frustrated brought to you by the same Florida State Attorney Angela Corey that is involved in the Zimmerman trial.

I'm trying to find more detail on the case because I don't understand how a jury could convict a 61 year old veteran and volunteer who was trying to protect an elderly woman.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
Here is a story that will really make you sad/frustrated brought to you by the same Florida State Attorney Angela Corey that is involved in the Zimmerman trial.

I'm trying to find more detail on the case because I don't understand how a jury could convict a 61 year old veteran and volunteer who was trying to protect an elderly woman.
That is a sad story indeed...

It seems that 10-20-life law is missing something. If its intended to deter people from burglary, why did it include some limitation based on committing another crime at the same time? Or are they using something like assault to get past that?
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:41 AM   #7
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It seems that 10-20-life law is missing something.
A judicial system.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:36 PM   #8
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So, wait a sec...

If I refuse to pay my federal income taxes for 11 years, can I then sue the government for violating my 5th amendment rights as well?
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:43 PM   #9
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I'd come to your trial with signs of support.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:50 PM   #10
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Any law worth dreaming up is worth prosecuting. lol
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:14 AM   #11
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I do enjoy reading about agricultural regulation. I have trouble grasping some things but the part I enjoy is some of the crazy scenarios this regulation breeds.

I read in the US we pay like 50% more for sugar than the rest of the world and considerably less for corn, and this is why we have corn syrup in sodas.

I also read about a group of farmers in Florida who make a killing by rent seeking, Its been a since I read it but i think it they were growing rice or sugar.

I just think its crazy to read about what happens in markets when food items become regulated. Wish I knew more about this stuff, but I will be eagerly awaiting the verdict of this.

Can this be considered a tax in which raisins are payment, I guess I mean can raisins be a form of payment? If so I see this guy loosing, If not i think he could make a good case.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So, wait a sec...

If I refuse to pay my federal income taxes for 11 years, can I then sue the government for violating my 5th amendment rights as well?
you CAN... just hopefully you have an awesome lawyer...
there are a select few people out there that dont even have to pay taxes, because they had a badass lawyer that knew their stuff. there is no written law stating that you HAVE to pay personal income tax... but they will sure as hell come after your *** if you dont pay...
i would like to get one of those lawyers, and fight back... they rape me in taxes.
BUT.... it would probably be cheaper just to pay the taxes in the long run, than one of those lawyers would cost. lol
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercooper View Post
you CAN... just hopefully you have an awesome lawyer...
there are a select few people out there that dont even have to pay taxes, because they had a badass lawyer that knew their stuff. there is no written law stating that you HAVE to pay personal income tax... but they will sure as hell come after your *** if you dont pay...
i would like to get one of those lawyers, and fight back... they rape me in taxes.
BUT.... it would probably be cheaper just to pay the taxes in the long run, than one of those lawyers would cost. lol
Uh the sixteenth amendment?
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
Uh the sixteenth amendment?
well, yeah..

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration"

But i thought this part of the amendment was never properly ratified, yet they still pursued? supposedly the proposed text of the amendment, and the text that was presented to congress were completely different.. something like that. whatever the case may be, there is a loophole there that some lawyers have pushed on, and succeeded.

i also dont put TOO much stock in the Zeitgeist series, but there was something about this in 2 of the 3 documentaries they made.

I wish i knew more about this, because they propose a pretty interesting case whenever its brought up
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