The hero warrior cop is ready to get roided up, rape, and drink and drive
#21
My point about the cruisers was in reference to the picture Jason posted of the old "beat cop" vs the new Cop Commando. With the advent of technology + the increase in urban sprawl (and/or spread of suburbs), cops started using the cars more and more. Instead of "walking a beat" where they might see and interact with the same residents on a regular basis in a non-confrontational manner, cops started spending all of their time with each other in their cars.
Practically the only time a normal person interacts with a cop these days is in a confrontational manner - like getting pulled over for revenue generation or "harrassed" for being somewhere the cop has decided they shouldn't be. Because the cops spend all of their time with each other unless they are targeting a suspect, and civillians only interact with cops in a negative fashion, it reinforces the "us against them" mentality.
I'm not sure I agree with this, but if it were the case, I would agree it's shitty. Most of the things I've seen - and, granted, I generally don't watch linked videos - have been catching cops going overboard in terms of violence or unreasonable harassment over petty traffic violations.
yes we are in complete agreement here.
#22
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the problem is, most of these people doing this are not purposefully doing something to get pulled over; that would assume a crime was committed. Most the videos on yt are people being stopped for open carrying, during checkpoints, or taking pictures of public buildings, where they record themselves being illegally detained/stopped/questioned/searched. If someone is doing something to get pulled over, then they can't complain as they've been arrested/detained. They might be injecting themselves into these situations, but i don't see anything wrong with that.
#24
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it's only a valid stop if they stop you within the law and for the reasoning stated, there's a multitude of hurdles police need to jump through in order to establish a legal checkpoint; typically they are only legal to check sobriety and registration and even then still they need probable cause to detain you or search your car.
The statistics on DUI checkpoints are ridiculous, whereas greater than 80% of arrests/tickets are made for other reasons. Which means the police are questioning motorists, who have every right not to answer, to self-incriminate.
The videos of DUI stops you see online are typically people refusing to answer, and then getting arrested/hassled/searched because of it. Which is outside the law, as the police still need reasonable suspicion based on the facts that a crime is being committed. They use stops as fishing expeditions to put people in "harms" way and put them situations where without rear cause they'd have never been stopped/questioned in the first place.
The statistics on DUI checkpoints are ridiculous, whereas greater than 80% of arrests/tickets are made for other reasons. Which means the police are questioning motorists, who have every right not to answer, to self-incriminate.
The videos of DUI stops you see online are typically people refusing to answer, and then getting arrested/hassled/searched because of it. Which is outside the law, as the police still need reasonable suspicion based on the facts that a crime is being committed. They use stops as fishing expeditions to put people in "harms" way and put them situations where without rear cause they'd have never been stopped/questioned in the first place.
#25
Are you a cop?
Are you a lawyer?
Have you been arrested for dwi?
Have you ever arrested anyone for dwi?
Have you ever conducted a traffic checkpoint?
Probably not...
You know. .we are kinda arguing a mute point because as far as I can tell we both agree that illegal activities by police must be pointed out. But I think you are more ready to believe that most cops are bad and I'm just saying most are good.
Are you a lawyer?
Have you been arrested for dwi?
Have you ever arrested anyone for dwi?
Have you ever conducted a traffic checkpoint?
Probably not...
You know. .we are kinda arguing a mute point because as far as I can tell we both agree that illegal activities by police must be pointed out. But I think you are more ready to believe that most cops are bad and I'm just saying most are good.
#26
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govt is inherently evil, cops are the govt, therefore cops are inherently evil.
a cop's job is to write tickets and make money for the state, so why should I like cops? a give them a break? I've never had a good encounter with a cop, im pretty sure the majority of cop who interact with one will say the same.
#28
Another data point, me and a friend making time in the mountains, hauling *** down twisty roads. Not sliding, not beyond limits of vehicle or driver, but 15ish over the limit easy. We got pulled over twice that day. My buddy is driving. He is armed. Cop comes up, he lets them know as a courtesy. One cop said thanks, the other had him put the mag on the dash (no round chambered). Let of with a warning both times. Shot the **** with one cop about the charger he was using.
I can think of several cases where cops could have generated some revenue for the state/messed up my day and instead more or less told me to GTFO. Mostly because it was pretty clear no real harm was done and I was heading home anyway.
Most people who hate cops in general are either criminals or wannabe intellectuals who need some ideological purity. Its a lot easier to hold a more or less libertarian view point if you can paint cops and other state employees as generally 'bad'. Its a bit harder to talk about over-reaching power if you have to acknowledge that cops are indeed people who do a damned difficult job and usually do it pretty well with patience.
Does the gov in general overstep its bounds all the fricken time? Yes. Are cops generally 'bad'? (whatever the hell that means) Nope.
I can think of several cases where cops could have generated some revenue for the state/messed up my day and instead more or less told me to GTFO. Mostly because it was pretty clear no real harm was done and I was heading home anyway.
Most people who hate cops in general are either criminals or wannabe intellectuals who need some ideological purity. Its a lot easier to hold a more or less libertarian view point if you can paint cops and other state employees as generally 'bad'. Its a bit harder to talk about over-reaching power if you have to acknowledge that cops are indeed people who do a damned difficult job and usually do it pretty well with patience.
Does the gov in general overstep its bounds all the fricken time? Yes. Are cops generally 'bad'? (whatever the hell that means) Nope.
#29
most people are bad, cops are people, therefore most cops are bad.
govt is inherently evil, cops are the govt, therefore cops are inherently evil.
a cop's job is to write tickets and make money for the state, so why should I like cops? a give them a break? I've never had a good encounter with a cop, im pretty sure the majority of cop who interact with one will say the same.
govt is inherently evil, cops are the govt, therefore cops are inherently evil.
a cop's job is to write tickets and make money for the state, so why should I like cops? a give them a break? I've never had a good encounter with a cop, im pretty sure the majority of cop who interact with one will say the same.
My point is, that if you have that "I know all of my tights and I know the law and I'll condescendingly tell you how to do your job" attitude, you're going to get fucked with...no ifs, ands or buts about it. To do so only makes you an ignorant ********....ignorant on the fact of how you have not learned how to interact with the real world.
If you've never had a "good" encounter with a cop....you are clearly doing something wrong. What do you mean by "good encounter" anyway?
#31
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true...generally cops do not have regular interaction with the public but i will say that mainly it has to do with manpower and calls for service. if you have 7 guys on a shift taking care of a city with 50k citizens its hard to get a break and chit chat with regular folk because you are so busy going call to call and doing all the paperwork that goes with it.
But, if you really did have fewer police per citizen or more square miles per police officer, that could be a contributing factor in the context you mention: there is no time to stop in to the local bakery to say hello or stop at the newstand to chat with the clerk.
being pulled over is not just revenue generation, it is a way to reduce traffic crashes.
"Traffic stops are only partially about revenue generation. Mostly, they are about (A) throwing the net out there for possible outstanding warrants or other crime (like catching a suspect or stumbling across a drug mule) and (B) putting forth a good public image for those that don't know any better that the cops are trying to reduce traffic crashes, even though there is minimal data to show a correllative or causal relationship between speeding tickets and traffic crashes."
i see what you are saying but i have to disagree. the patrol car is really just a mobile office, they are mediocre performers at best and in no way make a cop an "operator hardass". they house a computer, rescue tools, paperwork, case files... no bazookas or m60 machineguns, no thermal weapon sights...
#32
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true...generally cops do not have regular interaction with the public but i will say that mainly it has to do with manpower and calls for service. if you have 7 guys on a shift taking care of a city with 50k citizens its hard to get a break and chit chat with regular folk because you are so busy going call to call and doing all the paperwork that goes with it.
#33
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bwhahahahah
this is unrelated.
“Jeffery Barton, 52, pleaded not guilty to one count of illegal aiming or discharging a firearm at his arraignment in Clark County Court,” according to KOIN.com. “Barton reportedly admitted to deputies that he fired his weapon while chasing away people who he thought were breaking into his vehicles,” they added.
Barton told KOIN, "I did what Joe Biden told me to do."
The advice from Vice President Biden came in February 2013 at a meeting. He stated that gun owners need only fire warning shots to ward off intruders:
Barton told KOIN, "I did what Joe Biden told me to do."
The advice from Vice President Biden came in February 2013 at a meeting. He stated that gun owners need only fire warning shots to ward off intruders:
I said, "Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here ... walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house." … You don't need an AR-15 — it's harder to aim, it's harder to use, and in fact you don't need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!
#34
That may actually be a great point that I have not really linked before: the number of police relative to the square mileage or population they are supposed to be serving and protecting. I say "may," because I would need to see some legitimate statistics to verify that assumption.
I will grant you the first part of that comment. It sounds like someone convinced you of the latter part but you would have a HUGE hurdle to overcome to convince me of it. Your argument would have been stronger if you said something like...
"Traffic stops are only partially about revenue generation. Mostly, they are about (A) throwing the net out there for possible outstanding warrants or other crime (like catching a suspect or stumbling across a drug mule) and (B) putting forth a good public image for those that don't know any better that the cops are trying to reduce traffic crashes, even though there is minimal data to show a correllative or causal relationship between speeding tickets and traffic crashes."
"Traffic stops are only partially about revenue generation. Mostly, they are about (A) throwing the net out there for possible outstanding warrants or other crime (like catching a suspect or stumbling across a drug mule) and (B) putting forth a good public image for those that don't know any better that the cops are trying to reduce traffic crashes, even though there is minimal data to show a correllative or causal relationship between speeding tickets and traffic crashes."
that clarifies it a little bit. i think alzymers is starting to kick in
#35
do you think this contributes to how they treat a normal, law-abiding citizen? day-in-and-day-out responding to calls of offenders, dealing with scum, hearing every excuse in the book...easier to treat them all equally, throw the book/authority at them and let the courts figure it out?
#36
I am very humble to any officer that has ever pulled me over.
With that said, I've had an officer become outright pissed off at me when I told him that I hadn't been drinking at all. He called me a liar and told me to my face, in front of my girlfriend, that he knew I had indeed been drinking before rudely demanding I get out of the car for a field sobriety test.
What pissed him off more, though, was that during his field sobriety test he discovered for himself that I hadn't had a single drop of alcohol that night. He was pissed at me because I proved him wrong, and he was pissed that I wasn't the liar he wanted me to be.
The son-of-a-bitch still wrote me a traffic ticket for driving on the wrong side of the street. It didn't matter to him that the street was otherwise void of traffic, or that I was in the opposite lane to drive around a herd of drunk college students in the road, or that I was almost literally idling the car to get around those students. He only wanted to write me a ticket for drunk driving, and when he found out that he couldn't write me a DUI ticket, he decided to write some BS traffic ticket instead. He would have done a much better job as a public servant by writing tickets to those college students for either Jaywalking or public intoxication. ******* ******* cop.
With that said, I've had an officer become outright pissed off at me when I told him that I hadn't been drinking at all. He called me a liar and told me to my face, in front of my girlfriend, that he knew I had indeed been drinking before rudely demanding I get out of the car for a field sobriety test.
What pissed him off more, though, was that during his field sobriety test he discovered for himself that I hadn't had a single drop of alcohol that night. He was pissed at me because I proved him wrong, and he was pissed that I wasn't the liar he wanted me to be.
The son-of-a-bitch still wrote me a traffic ticket for driving on the wrong side of the street. It didn't matter to him that the street was otherwise void of traffic, or that I was in the opposite lane to drive around a herd of drunk college students in the road, or that I was almost literally idling the car to get around those students. He only wanted to write me a ticket for drunk driving, and when he found out that he couldn't write me a DUI ticket, he decided to write some BS traffic ticket instead. He would have done a much better job as a public servant by writing tickets to those college students for either Jaywalking or public intoxication. ******* ******* cop.
#37
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And how do those numbers compare with, for example, the 1950s or 1960s? It's the delta or change in those numbers that I am interested in, in terms of thinking about the change in perception of police.
I am sure that's what you were sold.
In 1970, before the national 55-MPH speed limit was put in place, there were approximately 4.74 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles travelled (fatality rate). The 55 MPH national limit was enacted in 1974 when the rate was 3.53. By 1994, the fatality rate had dropped all the way to 1.73.
Then, in 1995, Congress repealed that Federal law and some states raised their speed limit to 65 MPH. A funny thing happened: The fatality rate continued to drop in 1996, '97, '98... all the way to 1.44 in 2004.
There was a brief blip up to 1.46 in 2005, but the downward trend continued even as many, if not most, states increased their speed limits to 70 MPH.
http://www.saferoads.org/federal/200...s1899-2003.pdf
FARS Encyclopedia
[Edit: Not to mention the compliance rate in many states for actually following the 55 MPH limit was less than 30%!]
Now, I will grant you that I am talking about fatal accidents and not just fender benders. I don't know where to find good data on those.
Still, I reject the notion that traffic stops have anything to do with actually improving safety in all but rare incidences (like people blowing straight through stop signs or hauling *** through active school zones). They might be sold to the foot soldier that they are "improving safety" by spending a few hours working a speed trap, but that is not what they are primarily about.
while there may or may not be any data to directly link tickets and traffic crashes, there is data that shows a direct correlation between lower speeds and traffic crashes. you can find it in the studies done after the 55 mph speed limit was set in place. with that said, the purpose of the speeding ticket is to try and get people to mind the speed limit which in turn reduces traffic crashes/fatalities/injuries. wont completely eliminate crashes but does in fact reduce them.
In 1970, before the national 55-MPH speed limit was put in place, there were approximately 4.74 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles travelled (fatality rate). The 55 MPH national limit was enacted in 1974 when the rate was 3.53. By 1994, the fatality rate had dropped all the way to 1.73.
Then, in 1995, Congress repealed that Federal law and some states raised their speed limit to 65 MPH. A funny thing happened: The fatality rate continued to drop in 1996, '97, '98... all the way to 1.44 in 2004.
There was a brief blip up to 1.46 in 2005, but the downward trend continued even as many, if not most, states increased their speed limits to 70 MPH.
http://www.saferoads.org/federal/200...s1899-2003.pdf
FARS Encyclopedia
[Edit: Not to mention the compliance rate in many states for actually following the 55 MPH limit was less than 30%!]
Now, I will grant you that I am talking about fatal accidents and not just fender benders. I don't know where to find good data on those.
Still, I reject the notion that traffic stops have anything to do with actually improving safety in all but rare incidences (like people blowing straight through stop signs or hauling *** through active school zones). They might be sold to the foot soldier that they are "improving safety" by spending a few hours working a speed trap, but that is not what they are primarily about.
#38
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nope...i dont know what you have been through that you dont like cops but there is a pretty big difference between the way regular joe gets treated vs the regulars. and you know...even the regulars get treaty fairly decent most of the time...its just business, law enforcement is not warm and fuzzy full of hugs and kisses. no one likes to be detained, no one likes to be told they got caught doing something wrong, no one likes to get a ticket. and all that just makes for a bad experience. its not the cop that is mean or hateful its the totality of the circumstances.
do you love or hate your current job?