Long live Obamacare
 

:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,2058481.story



The Supreme Court's conservative justices said Wednesday they are prepared to strike down President Obama’s healthcare law entirely.

Picking up where they left off Tuesday, the conservatives said they thought a decision striking down the law's controversial individual mandate to purchase health insurance means the whole statute should fall with it.

The court’s conservatives sounded as though they had determined for themselves that the 2,700-page measure must be declared unconstitutional.

"One way or another, Congress will have to revisit it in toto," said Justice Antonin Scalia.

Agreeing, Justice Anthony Kennedy said it would be an "extreme proposition" to allow the various insurance regulations to stand after the mandate was struck down.

Meanwhile, the court's liberal justices argued for restraint. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the court should do a "salvage job," not undertake a “wrecking operation." But she looked to be out-voted.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. said they shared the view of Scalia and Kennedy that the law should stand or fall in total. Along with Justice Clarence Thomas, they would have a majority to strike down the entire statute as unconstitutional.

An Obama administration lawyer, urging caution, said it would be "extraordinary" for the court to throw out the entire law. About 2.5 million young people under age 26 are on their parents' insurance now because of the new law. If it were struck down entirely, "2.5 million of them would be thrown off the insurance rolls," said Edwin Kneedler.

The administration indicated it was prepared to accept a ruling that some of the insurance reforms should fall if the mandate were struck down. For example, insurers would not be required to sell coverage to people with preexisting conditions. But Kneedler, a deputy solicitor general, said the court should go no further.

But the court's conservatives said the law was passed as a package and must fall as a package.
The justices are scheduled to meet Wednesday afternoon to debate the law's Medicaid expansion

Oh boy here we go

Someone give me blaen99's mailing address so I can overnight a box of "heavy flow" tampons. lol

As I am self-employed, I have health insurance through a private carrier which I pay for myself.

That is all.

my girl just signed up for health care due to this bullshit...
so now, people without health care don't have to sign up????
wtf?!?!?!

Since I work for a large Health Care Insurance company, I think obama should go f* himself.

I'll believe it when they actually do it but looking forward to a resolution to this fiasco.

Oh, and striking down Obummer's landmark legislation will go far for in him in his re-election bid.

it'll be 5-4. there no way the liberal judges will go against it

Where are our liberal, crybaby, agrarian, carbon neutral, socialist e-friends?

Best news I've had in years.

I look forward to Mr. Kagan's thoughts on this, lol.

Just means we're back to Reagan's EMTALA as primary care for all the poor folks out there. http://www.marinmedicalsociety.org/m...?articleid=470

Yeah!

Your gf has health insurance. That sucks.

IDK if your referring to me, but I don't necessary like the law. In a perfect world should we all have healthcare? Yes.

BUT WAIT, I ALREADY HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332971365
HAIL JESUZ

in a perfect world we wouldnt get hurt or sick or die.

or drive miatas

true.

I'll chime in. I thought the mandate portion of this law was bullshit from the start. The government ought not be allowed to force someone to purchase healthcare, or penalize them if they don't. I can't see how that would be legal. However, I do think there we need some sort of national preventative healthcare system in place. There is entirely too much money spent in hindsight to put people back together after they ruin themselves at McDonalds and in the freezer aisle. Perhaps a scenario whereby you pay in and get services, and if you don't, better start praying to your favorite god.

I'm self employed and pay for my health insurance in full out of pocket, but goddamn it's not getting any cheaper and I'd love to have an alternative that is less expensive, even if the gubment runs it. I even partook in the local health department for a year to see how that went. Frankly not too bad, but they are so broke I'm not sure it would be worth the larger hassle anymore.

The mass media never discusses the real reasons for overpriced health care, which are economic inefficiency and the stifling of competition due to the regulations (which are written by the big players as a means of stifling smaller competitors.)

If health care cost say, 1/2 or 1/4th of what it did today, then buying your own health insurance would be far less of an issue, yes? Instead its artificially tied to employment, with employers being able to buy it cheaper than an individual can, etc etc.

Makes sense to me. I feel lucky that I'm with a non-profit (nope, not a typo) health insurance provider, and that definitely helps to keep my premiums as low as possible.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3of7b1/

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3of7b1/

Obamacare should fall, so this is great.

Just some notes:
-Obama sold this legislation on the promise that an average family's healthcare premiums would drop $2500/yr
-Since ratified, the average family's healthcare premiums have increased by $1300/yr
-Average premium rose 10% this year
-*average healthcare insurance company profits have increased by 9% this year*

And in case you weren't paying attention, unions and other large entities that significantly contributed to Obama's election campaign received waivers to exempt themselves from some or all of Obamacare provisions.

Nope, you're reasonable.

Meh, not emotional enough to troll. next....

This came directly out of atlas shrugged

Exactly. Upon my business partners death, NJ law allowed me to keep his widow on my company policy for 36 months. When she replaced the policy at the end of the period, with the same exact policy from the same company, her premium was 50% higher.

All due to distortions the gov't creates in the market, at the behest of those who are supposedly regulated, in the name of "progressivism" and "regulation".

When "liberals" argue against the free market, I ask them "what's the free market good for anyway, why don't we just have *everything* run by the gov't?". If they can't answer intelligibly, it's useless arguing with them, and, they can't argue against it intelligently if they can't say what it's supposedly good for.

:drama:

Been too busy working and working on the car to bother with politics much lately Hustly, had someone point me here.

Tell you what bro, let's make this interesting. I have a bet for you.

If Obamacare is declared unconstitutional, you get to dictate what my avatar/sig is for the next week.

If Obamacare is declared constitutional, I get to dictate what you put as your avatar/sig for the next week.

Seriously, if you are that confident, it should be a no brainer. I don't care too much either way, but this makes it interesting.

P.S. Exemptions are stuff that would get a party banned from here (Goatse avatar? No).

^ disco ball banana hammock time...

The shiny man thong has been done, we need something fresh.

Also, when is my goddamn username going to be changed back?

Almost as useless as arguing with people who can't view anything in shades of grey, in fact. It's either unregulated free markets or communism, right? :jerkit:

100% serious question: How do you decry a piece of legislation as "communist" and "unconstitutional", and then in the same post whine about a company making more money off of health insurance?

Pick your regulation carefully. We wouldn't want to throw Martha Stewart in prison over something specifically permitted for congress until six days ago in regard to insider trading. The problem is the pervasive, inherent corruption in regulation. Which is the greater crime, the perceived unfairness of a purely free market or the corrupt principles of congress, Mr. Pelosi constituent??? I'll see you in hell.


Hurry, someone rep this post!

Done!

Done. lol

Prepare for your permaban!!!!

So, Hustly, about that bet. You taking it, or pussing out?

I will not play your game of liberal lies and deceit!!! Hail Santorum, lord of the froth!!!

Wait, wait, wait.

I call you out and give you a "put up or shut up" deal, and you...the legendary Hustler, puss out?

While you both have valid points, I gotta side with Sav.

I think some regulation is necessary. Remember why communism didn't work? Because even if everybody within the system liked the concept, the concept does not translate into reality. Same applies with capitalism, unless we have regulations that keep people from getting ahead in an unethical manner.
Insider trading is bad.

Yeah know what Hussy and the average female have in common?

NO BALLS!

C'mon, Blaen just called you out! You gonna take that bro?

NO BALLS!

Ok, I'm in with the bet. I guess we have until June.


This will be your avatar:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332996508
or maybe this:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6475566_n.jpg

I tell you what, I have another river trip coming up and I'll make a new, special picture for you.

F*ck that. Give it 'til July the 15th so I can see it when I'm between bootycamp and MCT.

:bowrofl:

Gearhead, if I lose, I'll re-do it for a day just for you.

lol @ this one:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332997872

Who is that?

Is that a floating dildo in the bottom left?

There is no such thing as "unregulated" free markets, because market-based regulation will arise. :jerkit: You are confusing "lack of (monopoly) gov't regulation" with "no regulation".

Insurers who insure businesses have a monetary interest in making sure that said businesses don't injure customers or employees. Competitive pressures will force providers to create better and safer products. Businesses will arise that certify Product Safety. What do you think UL, VDE, and TUV do? Where do you think aftermarket wheel safety standard tests came from? Or the design safety regulation built into your cellphone and laptop chargers? Do you think a monopoly gov't bureaucracy can come up with better design rules than competing agencies? :jerkit:

My friends

Yes, lol.

Hey.. .I've got an idea, lets mandate that a service be provided for everyone. (Maybe we can even get someone famous like Reagan to sponsor it)
Its an ethical kinda deal where we don't just let people bleed to death if they're dropped at our doorway.
Lets call it emergency medicine/ the clinic of last resort.
Now, lets make this service cost a LOTA money, such that those that can't afford to pay, will never be able to pay.... and hence don't.

Now that we've got this russian roulette game going where people have a decent chance of ending up in ridiculous debt just for wanting to live... Or even worse, they get knocked unconscious, and someone calls an ambulance for them (don't they know to check for insurance cards?)


Now that we've got this in-payable debt... lets saddle the healthcare industry with it, and even have them bill the gov't for their costs. So instead of just paying for routine maintenance stuff (ounce of prevention) We'll pay for a pound of cure through our premiums and taxes.
But hey.... YOU can't make ME pay for all of these POOR FAT (insert minority of choice) PPL to have INSURANCE. (even tho I am already paying for their healthcare, albeit the most expensive way (pound of cure)) This is why the rest of the modernized world laughs at us... We claim we don't have universal health care, but really we do... its just shitty and expensive, and no one wants to talk about it or admit that it costs as much as it does.
.....

Here's a link about EMTALA http://www.marinmedicalsociety.org/m...?articleid=470

Caveats:

1. its probably not entirely fair to blame Reagan for 'the largest unfunded piece of legislation ever' (because I don't feel like fact checking that)

2. Its hard to prove that prevention cost less than the cure on a scale big enough to actually lower everyones health costs. We certainly won't know if we don't try though.

Remember to hand out this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333031415

Would it be legal to start an "accident insurance" company, and bypass all of the laws that healthcare companies have to abide by? If you break your arm, I'll pay to have your arm fixed to my standards, and 2 visits to the physical therapist + some rubber bands so you can do your own therapy if you fcuked up some tendons or some crap, but if you get the flu / have diabetes / catch the HIV / need an organ replaced / come in with some pre-existing injury / etc., you can pay for that your own damn self. I wouldn't be insuring your health, I would be insuring you against accidents.

Sure would make "health-savings accounts" a hell of a lot easier to rationalize if people weren't worried about "the big one".

"Nobody professed to understand the question of the frozen railroad bonds, perhaps, because everybody understood it too well. At first, there had been signs of a panic among the bondholders and of a dangerous indignation among the public. Then, Wesley Mouch had issued another directive, which ruled that people could get their bonds “defrozen” upon a plea of “essential need”: the government would purchase the bonds, if it found proof of the need satisfactory. there were three questions that no one answered or asked: “What constituted proof?” “What constituted need?” “Essential-to whom?” …One was not supposed to speak about the men who, having been refused, sold their bonds for one-third of the value to other men who possessed needs which, miraculously, made thirty-three frozen cents melt into a whole dollar, or about a new profession practiced by bright young boys just out of college, who called themselves “defreezers” and offered their services “to help you draft your application in the proper modern terms.” The boys had friends in Washington."

This concept already exists.

Well, it used to.

Insurance of medical costs as a result of accidental injury was in fact the earliest form of health insurance, both in the US and elsewhere. In some countries it is still commonplace. In Germany, the Arbeitsunfallversicherung covers healthcare costs related to injuries arising not only at the workplace, but in commuting to and from the workplace. (It would not cover an injury which occurred in your home or while bungee jumping from the top of the Büro Center Nibelungenplatz. That would fall under Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung, which is sort of a cross between the US Social Security system and Canada's universal healthcare system.)

The problem in the US was that we kept "tweaking" the system, expanding the scope of health insurance and what we expected from it, until the common perception became that health insurance was supposed to pay for everything right down to your monthly contraceptives bill. That, of course, is not "insurance" by any recognizable definition of the word.



No amount of "reform" will fix the healthcare system in the US until we realign our understanding of what insurance is for. Until then, I'm going to start submitting claims to Geico every time I change the oil in my car.

My wife doesn't have standard health insurance. She is covered by a healthcare cost-sharing group. It's incredibly cheap, the levels are structured to encourage members to limit their unnecessary healthcare costs, and while not every clinic or physician's group accepts it, it's fairly widely accepted (and if you happen to end up in a clinic or ER in an emergency situation and they don't accept it, the group will still cover the full costs).

We've been generally pleased with it. They did try to reject coverage for one $3000 procedure (claiming it wasn't related to an ongoing medical situation) but we disputed it, they checked the physician's records, and agreed to cover it. Try that with your insurance company.

BINGO.

The gov't kept meddling in the free market at the behest of the big players. It resulted in economic inefficiency and reduces competition.

This article expounds on the above:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...y-father/7617/

hahaha!!!