Malaysia flight 17
 

OMG I'm first to post on a current event!

Thoughts anyone? WWIII?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405616349

Need that GIF with a frowning MJ.

I'm sad

To me its pretty clear that this it was shot down by Russians - earlier today the 'self defense' forces claimed to
- have captured an Buk missile system from the Ukranians
- have shot down a Ukranian AN-24 cargo plane

then an hour later news surface that Malasya flight has gone missing, and all of a sudden those posts are promptly deleted. so far, no wreckage of AN-24 has been found.



But what makes me FUCKING FURIOUS are the hundreds and thousands Russian comments and posts that claim this is Ukraine provocaiton, that US was somehow involved, that the self-defense forces didn't do it, etc. Putin have said fuck-all so far.

he was just trying to nationalize the airplane.

There's a news aggregator site that's quite popular and allows to filter by country

Russian news:
http://mediametrics.ru/rating/ru/hour.html
Ukranian news:
http://mediametrics.ru/rating/ua/hour.html

even with broken auto-translate its pretty easy to see the difference in the media.

From business insider: "An adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister has said 23 U.S. citizens were among those on board who were killed in the crash."

T_T Sadly, it looks like this crash is no coincidence. I hate to see bystanders bear the brunt of something they don't deserve. Oh humans, what will you do next? I guess we'll find out soon enough when this escalates.

Need to go read this front to back The World is Not as Bad as You Might Think - Miata Turbo Forum - Turbo Kitten is watching you test compression.

It was just an overflight too -- flight was completely unrelated to Ukraine or Russia. Airliner was cruising in the 30s when the missile hit. I've overflown that part of the world many times in airliners. When your number's up . . . .

Malaysian Airlines just isn't having any luck whatsoever.

This thing stinks from every side. No way it didn't get shot down, and my money's on either the Russians outright or the Separatists. My question is, why did Kiev clear a civilian plane to go through hostile airspace? Hope? Happy thoughts?

The airlines have overflight agreements with all of those governments. That's part of establishing the route. They were flying the most fuel efficient path between Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpur. It's normal ops. I don't think anyone expected some crazies to be lobbing SAMs. I can't imagine that the SAM would have come from an armed force controlled by a legitimate government that had granted overflight rights and had positive identification of the airliner.

That said, I can't remember any country, other than the Soviet Union, that ever shot down an unarmed airliner filled with unlucky civilians. Anyone remember Korean Air Lines?

We did it in 1988. Iran flight 655.

Israel did it to the Libyans in '73.

Forgot the Iran airlines flight. I was even frontline Navy at the time.

There was another flight that was accidently shot down by Ukranian army in 2001
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, thanks wikipedia!
List of airliner shootdown incidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sobering. Interesting that WWII seems to have been a relatively safe time for the shooting down of airliners compared to recent decades. That says a lot.

I don't think there were that many commercial airliners flying around during WWII

True. Most had been converted to military transports.

If you look, all of the pre-'73 civilian planes shot down were in chassis also used for military. Ju-52, DC-3's, DC-4, Lockheed Constellation.

Edit: In response to FRT_Fun's below comment, I add this:


I declare war on the world of anti-choice
On violent unilaterality
On the amassment of murderous high-tech toys
And all crimes against humanity

War on the moral majority
On corporate dot-com imperialism
On mindlessly bumbling stupidity
And police-state terrorism

World war three - be all that you can be

Edit 2: Also, a post from /pol/

And to make matters worse......
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/wo...trip.html?_r=0

you know what they say:

If you keep lobbing bombs at your heavily armed neighbor, eventually he's going to lob a few thousand guided ones back.

It's too bad. If Palestine would learn to share, the Gaza strip could become an extremely lucrative tourist destination. Israel is one of the most humble, welcoming, and friendly nations I've ever been to. It's a shame that historically, whenever they have tried to be friendly with Palestine, the palestineans shake hands with one hand, while holding the backstabbing knife with the other.

Now, I'm not sure that any solutions remain. Perhaps propoganda to turn the Palestineans against Hamas? It doesn't work very well when Israel is standing on one side with a bull horn pointed at you while Hamas is standing on the other side with an AK pointed at you. Who would you listen to?

Maybe it just needs to be a complete eradication.

"Dear residents of Gaza Strip,
In 30 days, Israel will begin conducting a removal of all residents from the Gaza Strip. any of you who wish to live will either need to migrate to the Sinai Penninsula, or you must depart the area by vessel. Due to your violent nature, we will not allow you to join the West Bank region which would put you in vicinity of Jerusalem. Any of you who do not depart will be shot. Your homes will be burned, bull-dozed, or otherwise removed. You will never be allowed to return.

Your friends,

Israel"

the problem is: the stupid decisions of Hamas lead to the death of Palestinians. Those angry at the deaths won't blame Hamas, they'll blame Israel.

also, pretty sure only 6 died.

Attachment 239146


and can news outlets please stop saying a plane exploded?

the plane didn't explode; the missile that hit the plane exploded.

the plane was shot down.


no no no I didn't kill that guy, his head exploded.


and wtf is a "terror attack"?

It was Obama

If GB was in office it wouldn't have happened.

- pro-russian separatists are funded, supplied and controlled by Russia
- Russia denies any ties to or involvment with pro-russian separatists
- separatists get trigger happy and accidently shot down a civilian jet (I do believe it was accidental)
- separatists can't claim responsiblity because technically they "people fighters". don't have any SAMs, aren't terrorists and don't shoot down civilian airplanes
- Russia can't claim responsibility because they aren't officially affiliated with separatists


One thing for sure, Russian-made SAMs are super effective!

one of the handful of things the Ruskies are actually good at

Not exactly hard to shoot down a civilian plane with no counter measures..........

you gotta keep in mind the low, low skill level of the operator
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405702366

I also think that it was an accident that the separatists show down a civilian jet. Minutes after they shot it they tweeted about shooting down an AN-26 or something, then deleted the tweet just a bit later. There is also supposedly some phone conversations between separatists and Russian military right after the plane got shot down where they admit they shot the plane, and then sort of laugh at it and say it had spies on it. I may try to find sources when I get home if I am not lazy.

Video that possibly shows the BUK system used to shoot down the plane.

fixt

Viral marketing?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405708843

Airline traffic over Ukraine at 3:30PM EST today

those brave brave 6 planes lol

Look at that traffic jam to the east though, tell me you fellas wouldn't consider taking the short cut if this was a city road. And not air space filled with SAMs.

I live in Tucson, where "city roads" and "road space filled with missiles" are synonymous.

Not coincidentally, the freeways look like the East and West of Ukraine. :P

I dunno...

I wouldn't recommend a detour through the south side of Chicago to avoid traffic on the Kennedy.

A lot of news cast believe that it was an attempt to assassinate Putin whos plane was half an hour behind the Malaysia flight.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405715557

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

yeah, ok. pretty sure that plane was flying in completely different direction.

This is what happens when you give million dollar military weapons to a bunch of farmers and truck drivers with no guidance or real leadership. They just shoot everything that pops up because they have a new toy.

As for "shooting down Putin," yeah right.

Aircraft was cruising in the 30s. All you see is a spec and, perhaps, a contrail. The SAM was radar guided, not IR or visual. Utterly stupid assertion. Advanced, optical VID ("Visual ID") devices (like they have on some of the MIGs) are not part of this SAM system.

What sixshooter said.

yeah, that's like saying all Lerner's emails are gone because the HD on her computer crashed.

Did you just quote MF'in RUSSIA TODAY for information about RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS? Of course they say that it was Ukraine trying to kill Putin. You might as well watch Fox News for information about the US, BBC for information about the UK, Al Jazeera for middle eastern news, etc.

are you suggesting the US government feeds fox news its stories?

You got that backwards. ;)

true story: White House says Obama only learned of VA wait-list scandal on TV (just like the IRS, Fast and Furious and reporter snooping scandals) | Mail Online

I made sure to use a UK site for my source on US news.

More that they just spread misinformation.

you're comparing a credible news source highly critical of the party in power, that dominates viewership to the point of beating out all its competition--combined--to a state controlled propaganda machine that's a megaphone for Putin.

I bet you can't even source a bit of misinformation.

Remember that time when Fox News ran a story based on fake documents where Dan Rathers reported Bush deliberately went AWOL to avoid going to war? Fox News thinks they can get away with everything. Your turn.

I was going with the University of Maryland's study that found that Fox News viewers are the most misinformed news viewers, which could probably be explained away via confirmation bias, but I digress. None of the American major media "news" companies are really in the business of news, and to wholeheartedly trust any of them with such is foolish.

The beauty of the internet is I am not limited to Fox, CNN, or MSNBC, et. al. I can read articles from different journalists (even some REAL journalists) from all over the world on the same topic, including first-hand accounts or blogs from involved locals. Now if we could get everyone to start cross-checking their news....

Really? Compared to, like, MSNBC viewers?

Not that I rely on any of them, but what the heck kind of "study" is that?

BTW, I have an MSAE from U of MD. Guarantee you the engineering department wasn't doing BS "studies" like this.

well yeah, cause the liberal media is only really concerned with pushing their progressive goals; not spreading the news.

We know this because it's obvious they aren't actually concerned about the news (source: all MSNBC and CNN broadcasts) and if they were actually concerned with ratings and profit, then they'd lean conservative and try to actually compete with Fox News, because like I pointed out, Fox News dominates the ratings and as a reward, they make more profit than MSNBC and CNN combined.

Instead, they get together, come up with stories, catch phrases, and battle plans to spin negative press against the Messiah all while being rewarded with dwindling viewership (CNN is at a 20-year low as of 2013).

and remember, new outlets make about 70% of their profits from advertising. And advertisers dont like it when you don't have an audience for them to sell to.

tl;dr Fox Lies.

It was conservative movie star Ronald "Ronnie" Reagan that vetoed Congress's attempts at codifying The Fairness Doctrine into law after the FCC struck it down on first amendment grounds, even though SCOTUS found no first amendment issue. And then George H. "Not Dubya" W. Bush threatened a veto, which killed it again in 91. These decisions have helped lead to our current state of yellow journalism and corporate sponsored political echo-chambers which do no favors to our electorate nor their understanding of the issues.

But that plays right along with the real goal. "Liberal" and "conservative" is a false dichotomy. The "conservatives" have moved far right, and the "liberals" are just slightly to the left of it. The only real difference between the parties are a few select social wedge issues to keep up appearances of "us or them." After all, "Devide et impera." Why do you care which horse wins the race when they all belong to you?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405977692

Hmm. Big wonder Obama isn't doing anything to help with the overwhelming student loan problem, and is trying to ram-rod through legislation to allow more H1-B visas for STEM companies...

TL;DR: Yes, I did compare the corporate controlled propaganda machine that's a megaphone designed to spread disinformation and malice to benefit the members of our oligarchy to a state controlled propaganda machine that's a megaphone for Putin. Remember, the NDAA that liberal-hero Obama signed into law made propaganda legal in the United States, along with a score of other evils.

</offtopic>

So is it possible for the Russian Separatists to have tampered with the recovered flight recorders?

Not really. It wouldn't really matter though as the recorders aren't really equipped to detect surface to air missiles and the crew probably wouldn't have had any clue something was wrong until the airframe started disintegrating.

If you honestly believe a fairness doctrine is what you need to get honest journalism in america, you're out of you mind.

Any attempts to pass this law today is an effort by the left to use the gov't monopoly, and legal use of force, to help their buddies into Fox News's and other conservative news radio's market share.

both have moved left. Conservatives only appear to have moved far right because liberal have moved so far left. Sorry, that's completely false in every stretch of the imagination.

I'm willing to argue there's a 78% difference or $2,793,457 difference and even a complete fundamental difference, despite these donors.

because he's a horrible president that can't do anything right and has absolutely no interest in solving the student loan issue, all while campaigning on it?

His "plan" is to "forgive" loans--and what this really just means to subsidize them further; that the american taxpayer will pay the debts of individuals.

This incentivizes universities to INCREASE their rates, because students can just secure bigger loans and still have them paid for.

So long as we subsidize schooling, the cost will only go up, it's economics 101; something our president has little understanding of. Or he has complete understanding and he actually has alternative motives than what he preaches because he wants to fundamentally change america, and that requires destroying it to fit into his warped sense of fairness.

remember when he also promised to fix our gas price issue when he first got into office? I just filled up at $4.13 a gallon. or remember when he promised to close gitmo as his first act?

or any of these 6-pages worth of promises: The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are Promise Broken | PolitiFact

I dont know what's the point of issuing H1-B visas (or legislation), they can all just cross our open borders and enter our socialist system without all the paperwork.

FTFY

What a great argument.

In 1798 John Adams passed the Alien and Sedition Act in order to deport press/news that were saying negative things about him and the Federalist. So that pretty much proves that Fox News is in no way similar to RT. We must resist much.

It's no longer worth arguing if you can't be honest.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1406083067

So, missing bodies from the train? Flight recorders? Saw cuts in the plane hull? Anything other than Brain flipping out about my slight on the perfectly flawless visage of Faux News?

on a scale of left to right: are you up or down?

So are there no right-leaning libertarians?
Back on topic, it appears as if a lot of evidence was either destroyed or tampered with (saw cuts, missing bodies, etc.).
It doesn't really make any difference though when there are intercepted phone calls and tweets that paint a pretty good picture of what happened.

I believe the two are mutually incompatible as a leader. I'm sure there are plenty of right-leaning libertarian followers.

President Shuiend will be a full on libertarian. 2024 A vote for Shuiend is a Vote for FREEDOM!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1406121963