The Current Events, News, and Politics Thread
#5961
Boost Czar
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
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I still don't understand why you care if someone if paying taxes or not.
This one individual pays more in taxes and gives away more income in a single year than you ever will in over 100 lifetimes.
I'm also willing to beat he's not getting much back out of the system he's paying for.
You act like if he doesn't pay his taxes, you will be directly affected in some way. You think it's not fair that he can get away with finding loopholes. Meanwhile, you hardly pay into the system and probably benefit more out of it.
3% of all tax returns filled to the IRS account for over 50% of all the income collected.
That's an interesting number, because 3% is the average tax rate of the Bottom 50%.
more fun with numbers:
90% of the population only account for 30% of the tax burden. Talk about Loopholes! Maybe we should do something to make these numbers more "fair"?
47% of the population pays nothing at all. Unfair! Loopholes! Corporate scum!
The highest earners of the tax code pays an additional 1% to medicare -- something they'll NEVER use. Much Fairness!
This is how I picture you when you talk about mitt romney's taxes:
This one individual pays more in taxes and gives away more income in a single year than you ever will in over 100 lifetimes.
I'm also willing to beat he's not getting much back out of the system he's paying for.
You act like if he doesn't pay his taxes, you will be directly affected in some way. You think it's not fair that he can get away with finding loopholes. Meanwhile, you hardly pay into the system and probably benefit more out of it.
3% of all tax returns filled to the IRS account for over 50% of all the income collected.
That's an interesting number, because 3% is the average tax rate of the Bottom 50%.
more fun with numbers:
90% of the population only account for 30% of the tax burden. Talk about Loopholes! Maybe we should do something to make these numbers more "fair"?
47% of the population pays nothing at all. Unfair! Loopholes! Corporate scum!
The highest earners of the tax code pays an additional 1% to medicare -- something they'll NEVER use. Much Fairness!
This is how I picture you when you talk about mitt romney's taxes:
Last edited by Braineack; 10-08-2019 at 09:48 AM.
#5963
Go actually read up on the FairTax (not a flat tax) and then explain why you don't trust it.
Especially compared to the 70,000+ page IRS tax code.
#5965
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
So if you're adding $42 BILLION to the money supply monthly, for years, that would be the text book definition of inflation. It would mean that the value of the dollar would go down, and yet the stock value in dollars could actually go up! So how much stock market value is just the illusory pumping of FED money into the system?
The trading of securities, and the money created therein, is 100% private commerce. Sure, the Securities & Exchange Commission regulates stock trading, but their mandate is to prevent fraud, not to set monetary policy.
Wealth creation in the stock market occurs simply when a large group of investors collectively say "We believe that the value of this stock is greater today than it was yesterday, and we are therefore willing to pay more to acquire it." People get excited about some an earnings forecast from some random tech company? Boom! A billion dollars worth of potential money just got created without any input from the Federal government whatsoever. Some random automaker admits to cheating on safety & emissions tests? Boom! A billion dollars worth of potential money just vanished from existence.
Of course, no *actual* money is being created or destroyed. That valuation doesn't actually become realized until someone buys or sells the stock in question. And when they do that, real money changes hands, of which there is a finite supply. And it simply goes from Party A to Party B, with a commission being extracted in the middle to pay Party C which facilitated the transaction. None of that money is ever seen by either the company whose stock is being traded, nor by the government. Well, not until Party B pays their capital gains tax on it.
Last edited by Braineack; 10-08-2019 at 09:48 AM.
#5966
With regard to the question asked in the last sentence: none at all.
The trading of securities, and the money created therein, is 100% private commerce. Sure, the Securities & Exchange Commission regulates stock trading, but their mandate is to prevent fraud, not to set monetary policy.
Wealth creation in the stock market occurs simply when a large group of investors collectively say "We believe that the value of this stock is greater today than it was yesterday, and we are therefore willing to pay more to acquire it." People get excited about some an earnings forecast from some random tech company? Boom! A billion dollars worth of potential money just got created without any input from the Federal government whatsoever. Some random automaker admits to cheating on safety & emissions tests? Boom! A billion dollars worth of potential money just vanished from existence.
Of course, no *actual* money is being created or destroyed. That valuation doesn't actually become realized until someone buys or sells the stock in question. And when they do that, real money changes hands, of which there is a finite supply. And it simply goes from Party A to Party B, with a commission being extracted in the middle to pay Party C which facilitated the transaction. None of that money is ever seen by either the company whose stock is being traded, nor by the government. Well, not until Party B pays their capital gains tax on it.
The trading of securities, and the money created therein, is 100% private commerce. Sure, the Securities & Exchange Commission regulates stock trading, but their mandate is to prevent fraud, not to set monetary policy.
Wealth creation in the stock market occurs simply when a large group of investors collectively say "We believe that the value of this stock is greater today than it was yesterday, and we are therefore willing to pay more to acquire it." People get excited about some an earnings forecast from some random tech company? Boom! A billion dollars worth of potential money just got created without any input from the Federal government whatsoever. Some random automaker admits to cheating on safety & emissions tests? Boom! A billion dollars worth of potential money just vanished from existence.
Of course, no *actual* money is being created or destroyed. That valuation doesn't actually become realized until someone buys or sells the stock in question. And when they do that, real money changes hands, of which there is a finite supply. And it simply goes from Party A to Party B, with a commission being extracted in the middle to pay Party C which facilitated the transaction. None of that money is ever seen by either the company whose stock is being traded, nor by the government. Well, not until Party B pays their capital gains tax on it.
In other words, if the stock market was played with the same $100, the capitalization would always be $100, BUT each dollar would become more and more valuable and be able to buy more. Instead we have money pouring into the system, and it's not necessarily being earned.
It ends up as being a FED dollar that can be loaned to the market. The market has responded by issuing more stock (fake money) and taking loans at near zero interest. This hurts mom & pop, BUT if you're part of the Fascist "in" crowd, you make bucket-loads of money. Part of this booty is recycled in the form of PAC money. Hmmm, is that how this works?
#5967
Americans spend more on taxes than food, clothing, housing combined | Washington Examiner
"— If you include annual federal borrowing, which represents future taxes owed, Tax Freedom Day would occur 16 days later on May 10."
"— If you include annual federal borrowing, which represents future taxes owed, Tax Freedom Day would occur 16 days later on May 10."
Last edited by cordycord; 04-06-2016 at 11:34 AM.
#5968
Furthermore, I have even less confidence in the thousands of clerks, interns, lobbyists to actually write the regulations that would result from this legislation. Care to argue my point? The ACA, otherwise known as Obamacare should make my point. Best intended plans...
But explain to me how a "Prebate" isn't just another way of "Social Engineering" that you seem to hate?
I'm one of those people who doesn't find it at all difficult to fill in a 2 page Form 1040 each April along with the supporting forms and schedules. You know I don't even need my business accountant to do it for me.
#5969
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Securities trading is a completely free and open marketplace, with no barriers to entry beyond having internet access and a few dollars of free cash. Anyone who wishes to become part of the in-crowd may do so. And most everyone who has a 401k plan is already part of the crowd, whether they know it or not.
Why, and I ask this seriously, do you consider people who actively utilize the securities market to be fascists? Am I a fascist? I'm certainly not wealthy, but I do have a bit of play money in a Vanguard account, distributed across several ETFs.
#5970
I agreed with everything you wrote right up until that point.
Securities trading is a completely free and open marketplace, with no barriers to entry beyond having internet access and a few dollars of free cash. Anyone who wishes to become part of the in-crowd may do so. And most everyone who has a 401k plan is already part of the crowd, whether they know it or not.
Why, and I ask this seriously, do you consider people who actively utilize the securities market to be fascists? Am I a fascist? I'm certainly not wealthy, but I do have a bit of play money in a Vanguard account, distributed across several ETFs.
Securities trading is a completely free and open marketplace, with no barriers to entry beyond having internet access and a few dollars of free cash. Anyone who wishes to become part of the in-crowd may do so. And most everyone who has a 401k plan is already part of the crowd, whether they know it or not.
Why, and I ask this seriously, do you consider people who actively utilize the securities market to be fascists? Am I a fascist? I'm certainly not wealthy, but I do have a bit of play money in a Vanguard account, distributed across several ETFs.
#5972
I agreed with everything you wrote right up until that point.
Securities trading is a completely free and open marketplace, with no barriers to entry beyond having internet access and a few dollars of free cash. Anyone who wishes to become part of the in-crowd may do so. And most everyone who has a 401k plan is already part of the crowd, whether they know it or not.
Why, and I ask this seriously, do you consider people who actively utilize the securities market to be fascists? Am I a fascist? I'm certainly not wealthy, but I do have a bit of play money in a Vanguard account, distributed across several ETFs.
Securities trading is a completely free and open marketplace, with no barriers to entry beyond having internet access and a few dollars of free cash. Anyone who wishes to become part of the in-crowd may do so. And most everyone who has a 401k plan is already part of the crowd, whether they know it or not.
Why, and I ask this seriously, do you consider people who actively utilize the securities market to be fascists? Am I a fascist? I'm certainly not wealthy, but I do have a bit of play money in a Vanguard account, distributed across several ETFs.
It's not necessarily that you can't play in the same pool, it's that you'll end up with the wet Mounds bar while these guys will have the rafts and the water guns.
#5974
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
How does that make people who participate in the securities market fascists?
Fascism is a political model which is characterized by a one-party state, centralized economic control, and the espousal of violence as a means to achieve social order. None of these things describe either modern corporate organization or the securities exchange markets as a whole.
It seems like you're fundamentally opposed to free-market capitalism as a whole, which is an odd perspective for a small business owner to have.
Is this a problem?
The old axiom is that it takes money to make money. And objectively speaking, there's some truth to that. With regard to political action committees, it's true that money buys speech. But you'd rather that the first amendment be constrained such that it doesn't apply to rich people?
And again, how does that have anything at all to do with stock trading or corporate taxation? Raising corporate taxes above their present level will simply increase the number of individual taxpayers have have a net effective tax rate of zero or less.
#5976
So, I haven't been here in awhile and thought it'd be fun to read some of this thread. I myself work for a living, so this election is of upmost importance to me.
No help from the government is needed to be successful, it only helps those that can't help themselves. If we continue to allow this type of mindset it will only further damage our economy. Government makes it hard to run a business, but easy as 1,2,3 to get "aid". I'm all for helping those that really need help, but its time to stop enabling.
People want immigrants out but forget a few things. Most importantly the construction industry. Who in the everloving **** do you think will build things? Not only that, think about the amount of additional tax dollars that would come in to OUR country, rather than foreign ones! More than enough to be an impact, thus resulting in a feasible lower tax for all of us.
To me, the whole system is *** backwards.
I'm curious as to what the consensus is here for the candidates. Has there been a poll of sorts?
No help from the government is needed to be successful, it only helps those that can't help themselves. If we continue to allow this type of mindset it will only further damage our economy. Government makes it hard to run a business, but easy as 1,2,3 to get "aid". I'm all for helping those that really need help, but its time to stop enabling.
People want immigrants out but forget a few things. Most importantly the construction industry. Who in the everloving **** do you think will build things? Not only that, think about the amount of additional tax dollars that would come in to OUR country, rather than foreign ones! More than enough to be an impact, thus resulting in a feasible lower tax for all of us.
To me, the whole system is *** backwards.
I'm curious as to what the consensus is here for the candidates. Has there been a poll of sorts?
#5977
So, I haven't been here in awhile and thought it'd be fun to read some of this thread. I myself work for a living, so this election is of upmost importance to me.
No help from the government is needed to be successful, it only helps those that can't help themselves. If we continue to allow this type of mindset it will only further damage our economy. Government makes it hard to run a business, but easy as 1,2,3 to get "aid". I'm all for helping those that really need help, but its time to stop enabling.
People want immigrants out but forget a few things. Most importantly the construction industry. Who in the everloving **** do you think will build things? Not only that, think about the amount of additional tax dollars that would come in to OUR country, rather than foreign ones! More than enough to be an impact, thus resulting in a feasible lower tax for all of us.
To me, the whole system is *** backwards.
I'm curious as to what the consensus is here for the candidates. Has there been a poll of sorts?
No help from the government is needed to be successful, it only helps those that can't help themselves. If we continue to allow this type of mindset it will only further damage our economy. Government makes it hard to run a business, but easy as 1,2,3 to get "aid". I'm all for helping those that really need help, but its time to stop enabling.
People want immigrants out but forget a few things. Most importantly the construction industry. Who in the everloving **** do you think will build things? Not only that, think about the amount of additional tax dollars that would come in to OUR country, rather than foreign ones! More than enough to be an impact, thus resulting in a feasible lower tax for all of us.
To me, the whole system is *** backwards.
I'm curious as to what the consensus is here for the candidates. Has there been a poll of sorts?
#5978
I'll stipulate.
How does that make people who participate in the securities market fascists?
Fascism is a political model which is characterized by a one-party state, centralized economic control, and the espousal of violence as a means to achieve social order. None of these things describe either modern corporate organization or the securities exchange markets as a whole.
It seems like you're fundamentally opposed to free-market capitalism as a whole, which is an odd perspective for a small business owner to have.
Ok.
Is this a problem?
The old axiom is that it takes money to make money. And objectively speaking, there's some truth to that. With regard to political action committees, it's true that money buys speech. But you'd rather that the first amendment be constrained such that it doesn't apply to rich people?
Again, true.
And again, how does that have anything at all to do with stock trading or corporate taxation? Raising corporate taxes above their present level will simply increase the number of individual taxpayers have have a net effective tax rate of zero or less.
How does that make people who participate in the securities market fascists?
Fascism is a political model which is characterized by a one-party state, centralized economic control, and the espousal of violence as a means to achieve social order. None of these things describe either modern corporate organization or the securities exchange markets as a whole.
It seems like you're fundamentally opposed to free-market capitalism as a whole, which is an odd perspective for a small business owner to have.
Ok.
Is this a problem?
The old axiom is that it takes money to make money. And objectively speaking, there's some truth to that. With regard to political action committees, it's true that money buys speech. But you'd rather that the first amendment be constrained such that it doesn't apply to rich people?
Again, true.
And again, how does that have anything at all to do with stock trading or corporate taxation? Raising corporate taxes above their present level will simply increase the number of individual taxpayers have have a net effective tax rate of zero or less.
My working definition of when corporations bend willingly to fascism is Crony Capitalism. Being a crony capitalist doesn't mean you're related by blood, just related by collusion. As a small businessman I see how government rules have changed in the last 7 years to benefit large crony capitalists. "First to file" patents is one way, the barriers to growth by paperwork and regulatory practices is another. The BIG hurdle is pay for play for private corporations. If you want government contracts, you need to work with and for public unions. Want that book contract? You need to be in bed with the teacher's union. Want the grant? Study climate change...the right way.
Capitalism--I'm 100% PRO CAPITALISM. It has saved more lives world wide than any other single thing, probably including any given religion....and us Catholics work HARD helping the less fortunate.
I believe Capitalism works best when there's a level playing field. Where public/private collusion is not allowed, where loopholes and barriers to competition are treated as evil. The level playing field isn't introduced by more regulation, but less. If there was a type of Capitalism I could champion, it would be called "Moral Capitalism", instead of Crony or Machiavellian, or managed, or whatever.
A flat or fair tax, wiping out the IRS and many government regulations would benefit everyone. Because capitalism.
#5980
So, I haven't been here in awhile and thought it'd be fun to read some of this thread. I myself work for a living, so this election is of upmost importance to me.
No help from the government is needed to be successful, it only helps those that can't help themselves. If we continue to allow this type of mindset it will only further damage our economy. Government makes it hard to run a business, but easy as 1,2,3 to get "aid". I'm all for helping those that really need help, but its time to stop enabling.
People want immigrants out but forget a few things. Most importantly the construction industry. Who in the everloving **** do you think will build things? Not only that, think about the amount of additional tax dollars that would come in to OUR country, rather than foreign ones! More than enough to be an impact, thus resulting in a feasible lower tax for all of us.
To me, the whole system is *** backwards.
I'm curious as to what the consensus is here for the candidates. Has there been a poll of sorts?
No help from the government is needed to be successful, it only helps those that can't help themselves. If we continue to allow this type of mindset it will only further damage our economy. Government makes it hard to run a business, but easy as 1,2,3 to get "aid". I'm all for helping those that really need help, but its time to stop enabling.
People want immigrants out but forget a few things. Most importantly the construction industry. Who in the everloving **** do you think will build things? Not only that, think about the amount of additional tax dollars that would come in to OUR country, rather than foreign ones! More than enough to be an impact, thus resulting in a feasible lower tax for all of us.
To me, the whole system is *** backwards.
I'm curious as to what the consensus is here for the candidates. Has there been a poll of sorts?
Well meaning immigrants cross over the border right next to drug dealers, gang members, terrorists, people who traffic is sexual slavery, murderers, etceteras. Anyone who accepts an open border is colluding with murderers and rapists, as far as I'm concerned.
If the wall goes up and E-verify is instituted, the first thing you're going to see is more Americans getting off welfare and disability and back on the payroll. You'll also see a natural increase in wages. If there is a huge cry for construction workers, you'll see the usual government fumbling, but the front door can handle temporary or even permanent immigrants who can do these jobs.
If Hillary or Bernie is elected, all of this won't matter. We'll all look back fondly at the crash of 2008 and the malaise of the Carter administration.