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From personal experience, I know that in western Europe, Eastern Europe has become the China of the US. Lots of cheap goods are manufactured in Romania, Poland, Hungary, etc. for sale in Germany, France, Italy, The Netherlands, etc. Wages and standards of living are still depressed in these areas, a remnant of the politics of the latter half of the 20th century.
Does an analogous condition exist in Australia?
Pretty much. Australia reduced its (pretty high) tariffs, and much industry was knocked out by competition from low-wage countries - China, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia.. Jobs were created in the service economy ( for example Australia has a massive full-fee paying education market providing education to foreigners generating $billions), and an increased emphasis on high value-added manufacturing. This is being put to the test now, as the local car manufacturing industry shut down over the last two years and the industry that built up around those manufacturers is now restructuring and repositioning to survive.
Don't change the subject Joe, you know this thread is about all the things that you Muricans have gotten wrong.
ANOTHER thing you have gotten wrong - there is no such thing as French fries. They are 'chips'. Its not that hard - one word instead of two. And you can't call them fries, because we all know that is unhealthy. AND, you don't put mayo on them, you use Worcestershire sauce.
Don't thank me, I am just doing my duty as a citizen of the world to set you blokes straight. It's a hard slog, but someone has to do it ...
Don't change the subject Joe, you know this thread is about all the things that you Muricans have gotten wrong.
Huh, I honestly didn't realize that Holden was essentially defunct as a manufacturer, but damn...
I know this may sound sarcastic, but it isn't: I'm just really curious as to what links may exist between things like a decrease in manufacturing jobs and an increase in violent / sociopathic behavior, or between broad changes in things like firearms ownership laws and a social acceptance of offshore-manufacturing, etc., even if it is an indirect correlation. Eg: "Variable A changes, which results in effect B, which then functions as a variable to cause outcome C."
So, does an increase in beef consumption (or in automobile imports from Asia, etc), cause something which causes something which causes isolated acts of egregious violence.
Originally Posted by Gee Emm
ANOTHER thing you have gotten wrong - there is no such thing as French fries. They are 'chips'. Its not that hard - one word instead of two. And you can't call them fries, because we all know that is unhealthy. AND, you don't put mayo on them, you use Worcestershire sauce.
Worcestershire? Like, just plain worcestershire and nothing else? At least here in the states, worchestire sauce is a very runny liquid, about the consistency of Detroit tap water.
I could see it mixed in with the mayo perhaps. Or I could totally see HP sauce by itself (I put it on baked potatoes), but worchestire? Man, no wonder y'all have been losing your grip on the Ashes.
Location: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Huh, I honestly didn't realize that Holden was essentially defunct as a manufacturer, but damn...
I know this may sound sarcastic, but it isn't: I'm just really curious as to what links may exist between things like a decrease in manufacturing jobs and an increase in violent / sociopathic behavior, or between broad changes in things like firearms ownership laws and a social acceptance of offshore-manufacturing, etc.
Doesn't seem that any obvious links exist.
Worcestershire? Like, just plain worcestershire and nothing else? At least here in the states, worchestire sauce is a very runny liquid, about the consistency of Detroit tap water.
I could see it mixed in with the mayo perhaps. Or I could totally see HP sauce by itself (I put it on baked potatoes), but worchestire? Man, no wonder y'all have been losing your grip on the Ashes.
:
But in all seriousness, the comparison to Australia is actually quite relevant here. Both countries were founded as British colonies at around the same time, and both have evolved into stable first-world economies with large industrial sectors.
:
I would like to ask a question of the Australians in the group:
Here in the US, we have forfeited the majority of our domestic manufacturing capacity to Asia. Electronics, washing machines, light bulbs, small engines, tools... Pretty much anything you can buy of that nature in the US these days is going to say "Made in China" on it unless you are shopping at a boutique store and deliberately paying a premium for it.
From personal experience, I know that in western Europe, Eastern Europe has become the China of the US. Lots of cheap goods are manufactured in Romania, Poland, Hungary, etc. for sale in Germany, France, Italy, The Netherlands, etc. Wages and standards of living are still depressed in these areas, a remnant of the politics of the latter half of the 20th century.
Does an analogous condition exist in Australia?
Gee Emm pretty much answered this question but i'd like to add the following to Gee Emm's comments:
One key difference between the US and Australian economies is that big-business (banking, mining, farming) dominates our economy whereas smaller businesses dominate in the US.
ie. Manufacturing losses in the US had a bigger impact on the economy than in Australia.
When I lived in the US I always got surprised to see something marked as "Made in Mexico"; the only thing we really see "Made in Mexico" in Australia is Tequila.
We typically see "Made in China" and for clothing, "Made in India" is common.
It's all about geography.
Australia has embraced Free Trade probably more than any country in the world.
This has been both good and bad.
It's good from the point of view that we're no longer paying through the nose for imported goods that are also produced in Australia and have protective tariffs (eg. cars; US citizens would be appalled at what we used to pay for them - even now they're way more than most US citizens would pay).
It's good from the point of view that the taxpayer is no longer supporting enterprises that are clearly failing or not worth continuing.
It's bad from the point of view that large non-competitive industries, those that can't survive without protection, have disappeared.
For small businesses this is sensible but for large businesses with lots of employees, like the car industry (Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford and now Holden), losing all those jobs has a massive negative effect on the community, large number of jobs no longer exist so there's less money flowing through the community and supporting industries/services that AREN'T being protected no longer have customers so they disappear too (this was always one of the biggest arguments for supporting the car industry in Australia and you can't argue that).
It's bad from the point of view that we're still competing against countries that still protect their industries.
eg. When the US had a glut of grain, they dumped it cheaply to China, one of Australia's largest markets (can't blame them for that but it's unfair when US grain farmers are subsidised - more comments on this below).
Australian farmers don't receive subsidies (they can get initial financial help if they're trying to establish new farming products/techniques, as was the case in South Australia with tuna and oyster farming).
It's bad from the point of view that low-skilled labour is massively reduced - less local jobs available.
It's bad from the point of view that a nation is in danger of not being self-reliant/sufficient when it needs to be (food is my big concern here and I'm all for subsidising farmers to ensure that the country can feed itself but no more than that).
It's bad because Australia simply can't compete in many industries against low-wage countries (this includes the US; Australia's minimum wage is much higher than in the US, people can actually afford to live on a single minimum wage job and our cost of living is much higher than in the US).
Originally Posted by Gee Emm
:
ANOTHER thing you have gotten wrong - there is no such thing as French fries. They are 'chips'. Its not that hard - one word instead of two. And you can't call them fries, because we all know that is unhealthy. AND, you don't put mayo on them, you use Worcestershire sauce.
:
Gee Emm:
when you're taking to a US citizen, you need to call them "Freedom Fries"
"chips" are chunky, "French Fries" are very thin to give a greater surface area to coat in fat
Others:
this "Worcestershire sauce" thing is not commonplace in Australia, salt, extra-salt, chicken-salt, tomato/barbeque sauce is more common here
Good to read the healthy/informed comments in this thread, it's always beneficial to see alternate viewpoints presented well.
As for some of the others, I'd like to quote the following from a Philosophy course I was forced to take as part of my ComputerScience/Maths degree:
"In an argument, when you have to resort to insults, you've lost!"
The Philosophy course turned out to be pretty good and that quote has always stuck with me so while I may pose a point of view, I don't resort to insults nor respond to them (because I've already won against that guy).
It's bad because Australia simply can't compete in many industries against low-wage countries (this includes the US; Australia's minimum wage is much higher than in the US, people can actually afford to live on a single minimum wage job and our cost of living is much higher than in the US).
This thread is forbidden to turn into the minimum wage discussion. We have a whole other thread for that shizzle. But I'll stir the pot a little...
Hot sauce is good. I prefer Frank's, but I also keep Tabasco (both original and chipotle) in the cupboard. It's more of an accompaniment for me, though, when on something as simple as frips. (New word invented to placate former colonists on both sides of the ocean, given that we use the word "chips" to describe "crisps," and for us, "crisps" are something entirely different altogether.)
My personal preference varies with much whimsy. Belgian mayonnaise and curry ketchup are perennial favorites, though I also enjoy HP Sauce. Just bought another bottle on the way home from a trim & barber shave this morning. Gonna have to try worcestershire sauce mixed with mayo the next time I whip up a batch of sweet potato fries.
Also, there is no better shave than a barber shave. I feel like a friggin' dolphin right now.
I really enjoyed Remia brand fritessauce when travelling the continent, but have been unable to find it in the US.
Moving on... This piqued my curiosity:
Originally Posted by Lokiel
One key difference between the US and Australian economies is that big-business (banking, mining, farming) dominates our economy whereas smaller businesses dominate in the US.
ie. Manufacturing losses in the US had a bigger impact on the economy than in Australia.
And down another rabbit-hole I go...
Having spent several hours pouring through government statistics, it turns out that Australia and the US are remarkably alike in this measure as well. I know that the whole fairytale about the small business owner is strongly ingrained in the American story, but the reality is that the corporation is a much stronger factor in the US economy. And, surprisingly, the inverse is actually true in Australia.
It turns out that the US is much more heavily dependent on "big business" as an employer base.
Here is 20 years worth of data on employment in the US, sorted by size of employer:
In 2014, companies with more than 100 employees accounted for 69% of all employment, and companies with more than 500 employees accounted for 32% of all employment. The numbers from 20 years ago are 66% and 27%, so a small movement towards the largest of companies. (source)
Here's Australia:
In this table, "Small" is defined as 0-19 employees, "Medium" as 20-199 employees, and "Large" as 200 or more. (source.)
Now, the cutoff points are obviously different for the statistics produced by the governments of the two countries. But the trend is readily apparent. If we split the difference between the two definitions of "large", we see that in the US, large corporations account for more than half of total employment, while in Australia, they account for a little over 1/3.
The same basic ratios also apply when you measure payroll distribution.
So... yeah. It seems that Australia has done a better job of embracing the American Dream than America has. What interests me is how these two interpretations will play out over the coming century as regards the economies of the far-east.
EDIT: And, of course, what effect (if any), all of this has on people who decide to kill a bunch of other people for hazily-defined reasons.
Snakes self defend, they don't argue their case against the state in court.
If the state were to step on snek, it would be intentional, without provocation, and then the snek would be either be killed or arrested for resisting before it could ever strike back.
If the latter, the charges would be dropped and the snek could file a grievance which would go no where after a grand jury was manipulated into believing the state has the right to step on snek; getting it's due process.
If the state were to step on snek, it would be intentional, without provocation, and then the snek would be either be killed or arrested for resisting before it could ever strike back. If the latter, the charges would be dropped and the snek could file a grievance which would go no where after a grand jury was manipulated into believing the state has the right to step on snek.
This seems like a non-optimal distribution of liberty to me.
More than 100,000 noncitizens are registered to vote in Pennsylvania alone, according to testimony submitted Monday in a lawsuit demanding the state come clean about the extent of its problems.
The Public Interest Legal Foundation, which has identified similar noncitizen voting problems in studies of Virginia and New Jersey, said Pennsylvania officials have admitted noncitizens have been registering and voting in the state “for decades.”
But state officials have stonewalled PILF requests for access to the data that could expose the problem, the group says in a lawsuit filed in federal court in Harrisburg.
“For months, Pennsylvania bureaucrats have concealed facts about noncitizens registering and voting — that ends today,” PILF President and General Counsel J. Christian Adams said.
He said Pennsylvania had already admitted to a “glitch” dating back to the 1990s that had allowed noncitizens applying to renew driver’s licenses to be offered the chance to register to vote. Mr. Adams said he now wants to find out how bad the problem is overall.
03-02-2018, 04:22 PM
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