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Old 03-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Joe
Here's the market data: http://www.arbitron.com/home/mm001050.asp (Is it just me, or is it kind of interesting that, according to Arbitron, Puerto Rico is the only place in the entire US where there are no hispanics whatsoever?)
Because saying so would open them up to a lawsuit!!!
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:52 PM   #22
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The idea behind the lawsuit is that the market relies on the data to determine advertising rates. Customers trust that Arbitron is an expert and should know how to effectively gather data. The fact that the data was faulty for reason's arbitron should have known is the case for negligence and discrimination. You act as if the money is going to minorities. It is not.
Neither does the money in any number of class action lawsuits. The beneficiaries are the lawyers.

And why is their supposed f-ckup discriminatory worthy of punishment under a law that's supposed to protect minorities from racism?

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case for negligence and discrimination
Negligence no, breach of contract, maybe, discrimination, Bullshit!


You keep arguing like a lawyer and you know it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:52 PM   #23
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The constant harping about discrimination is something that I think will, in the future, be looked on the same way we view segregation today. How could they think that discrimination was bad?

Everyone discriminates every single day. You reject stupid/ugly partners as potential mates. You dicriminate against the place that shorts the meat in tacos, or has higher prices but no better products. Discrimination in and of istelf is how we make decisions.

Discrimination based solely on the color of someone's skin is bad. But stereotypes often have a degree of truth, and are perpetuated by the ones screaming the loudest. We've all heard the stories of some minority that is fired and sues, but how many of those are what most would consider "normal"? No, it's always the ones who think that they can get away with bending the rules because they have that minority shield to protect them.

My wife worked for Wegmans Food Markets. Consistantly in the top 10 of best places to work. Good pay, benefits, etc. They had a mentally disbled guy (we-TODD-ed) working there (prepared foods dept.) who was a diswasher. Terrible work ethic, and deliberately did things wrong, because he kenw they could never fire him. It took 6-8 months of written and photographic evidence to finally can him, because they were so scared of the lawsuits. More scared than failing health inspections due to improperly washed dishes. That's downright scary.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #24
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The underlying technology is indistinguishable from magic (a bunch of stuff about psychoacoustic masking of embedded recognition tones), but the fact is that the system works pretty well.
Wait, do they give a device to the radio stations to add in inaudible sekrit tones?

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One possible inference we might draw is that people of one group might be more likely to do than people of another.
BTW is that your inference or did you hear this from some Arbitron insider?

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Sadly, that just won't do for many city attorneys.
City attorneys probably aren't privy to what goes on in a niche industry. Someone must have pissed in their ear (such as a hip hop exec, or a competitor that doesn't have access to Arbitron's technology).

If so, it would be an example of BS laws being used as a bludgeon by competitors or losers in business.

And as we fight amongst each other, the lawyers profit.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:13 PM   #25
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Neither does the money in any number of class action lawsuits. The beneficiaries are the lawyers.
Considering that these are state lawyers as prosecution they do not benefit whether they win or lose, atleast not monetarily. if you had quoted the whole section you have also captured the MONEY GOES TO THE STATE portion of it.

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And why is their supposed f-ckup discriminatory worthy of punishment under a law that's supposed to protect minorities from racism?
Because that was the law that the DA felt most suited the case.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Negligence no,
Negligence, yes! They are looked to as experts and as such have a lot of control over the market. Therefore any mistakes they make that they should have known better than to make will come under increased scrutiny. (i.e. auditors fall victim to this even though an audit does not guaranttee that there are no errors or fraud if they should have seen it they are prosecuted because many rely on their expert opinion to make FINANCIAL DECISIONS)



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discrimination, Bullshit!
I agree but I am not the prosecutor of this case.


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You keep arguing like a lawyer and you know it.
Yes I am. This is because I am part of the accounting community which deals with the backlash of this legal ---- all the time so I have a good understanding of the underlying argument. It is a valid one.

However, I never said that this case was cut and dry negligence. I merely stated that there was some merit to the claims and it wasn't completely bullshit as you stated in the OP.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Wait, do they give a device to the radio stations to add in inaudible sekrit tones?
Yes. Every participating station is given a PPM Encoder (actually two- main and backup) which are installed inline with the audio signal chain, usually as the last device in the path (after audio processing and delay). This box does some kind of secret manipulation of the audio to encode a unique identifying signal and timestamp into it without audibly altering the signal. It's not a tone per-se, more like a modulation of the audio itself. (It does not, for example, work when the station is silent. If you stop the audio, the alarm will sound after a minute or so, even though the transmitter is still on and the encoder is technically working.)

You also get a PPM decoder / monitor, which receives your own over-the-air signal and decodes it to look for the presence of the ID signal. If it is not found, then it sounds an alarm and gives a relay closure, which you can use to activate an automatic switchover to the backup encoder and alert the engineering department. In larger stations with full-time newsrooms, the relay closure from the decoder is usually also brought out to drive a huge strobe or police-car light in the newsroom. Stations take this seriously, as loss of PPM encoding is just as bad as actually being off the air, from a ratings perspective.

Here's a stack of encoders and decoders, I can't remember which station this is from:



This services three different radio stations, grouped into clusters of two encoders and one decoder each. The top (main) encoder is enabled on all three stations (the keyswitch, which is an actual, physical key, is set to "enable" and the green "encoding" light is on), however the decoder at the bottom is indicating a fault condition, evidenced by the red light.
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The truth is discriminatory (in California, New Jersey, Maryland, Florida & New York)-arbitron-ppm-encoder.jpg  
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:19 PM   #27
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Considering that these are state lawyers as prosecution they do not benefit whether they win or lose, atleast not monetarily. if you had quoted the whole section you have also captured the MONEY GOES TO THE STATE portion of it.
I knew the money didn't go to said minorities, but I WAS MAKING A POINT. The whole notion of "protecting" an "injured party or group", by a lawsuit wherein said party doesn't get the restitution, is WRONG.

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Negligence, yes! They are looked to as experts and as such have a lot of control over the market.
Your are not using the word properly, but it's not important so I won't belabor the point.


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Yes I am (arguing like a lawyer). This is because I am part of the accounting community which deals with the backlash of this legal ----
And you are arguing within the constraints of the system we are subjected to. And that is fine.

I am pointing out that the SYSTEM is bullshit and it won't change unless awareness spreads.

Your arguments are valid wrt living in the system, but people should recognize it is F*CKED UP and makes our lives worse.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:22 PM   #28
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Joe - the degree of specialization as a result of the profit reward system of the market never ceases to amaze me. Some guy out there has spent the last >10 years of his life on this very narrow niche. And with what he earns he turbos his truck and posts kitten pictures on the internet or buys fat **** or something. Which in turn is provided by some other guy who spent 10 years or more of his life refining....
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #29
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This box does some kind of secret manipulation of the audio to encode a unique identifying signal and timestamp
Reminds me of the coordination signal used by the aliens in Independence Day.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:23 PM   #30
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Everything I need to know I learned in Quantitative Methods. I can't wait to hear from the state on "perfect data collection". lol
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #31
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Reminds me of the coordination signal used by the aliens in Independence Day.
Where do you think Arbitron got the technology from? Took a while to reverse-engineer (they never thought to have Jeff Goldblum just plug an unmodified Apple laptop into it) but it's working pretty well.
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