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Old 03-22-2012, 08:33 PM   #41
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That's pretty interesting.

On the one hand, kudos to Ms. Allred for digging up what must have been a very obscure law and figuring out a way to profit from it.

On the other hand, this is a woman who got up in front of Congress and essentially said "I want you to pay for birth control pills so that I can have sex for the purpose of recreation."

To me, it sounds like she has self-identified as a ****, and Limbaugh's assertion to that point is probably not libelous. If he called her a prostitute on the air (by name), then that's a much higher standard, as he would need to prove that she had sex in exchange for either money or something of tangible value, such as birth-control pills. Unless she is banging the doc at the clinic on campus, that's probably not defensible.

This will end with an undisclosed, out-of-court settlement.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:38 PM   #42
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The State Attorney's Office won't touch it. It's not politically expedient and doesn't serve the constituents of the State of Florida.
Read: It will cost money we really don't have, therefore not interested.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:25 PM   #43
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The State Attorney's Office won't touch it. It's not politically expedient and doesn't serve the constituents of the State of Florida.
The State Attorney may not agree to a criminal prosecution, but if Sandra Fluke has half a brain (and since she's a Cornell graduate and law student at Georgetown, she probably does) she will bring a civil suit against Limbaugh for libel. It'll be a flimsy one, as even though I'm not familiar with Florida's stance on Defamation per se, accusing a 23 year old **** of being a prostitute is hardly the most damaging thing I can think of. But it doesn't matter, and EIB will settle out of court for an undisclosed sum as they always do, with which Fluke can buy all the birth control pills she could ever need.

That said, I would do her. She's a hottie, and will probably wind up wielding political power.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:14 AM   #44
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I agree with you here. 'Tis cheaper to settle than pay lawyers' fees.
Speaking of teh hotness, have ya seen our State Attorney?

Whoo-Hoo for Florida!
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:52 AM   #45
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Rights are bullshit they feed us to keep us in line.

The next time you catch yourself thinking about your "rights" just remember February 19, 1942
Ouch.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #46
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On the other hand, this is a woman who got up in front of Congress and essentially said "I want you to pay for birth control pills so that I can have sex for the purpose of recreation."

To me, it sounds like she has self-identified as a ****, and Limbaugh's assertion to that point is probably not libelous. If he called her a prostitute on the air (by name), then that's a much higher standard, as he would need to prove that she had sex in exchange for either money or something of tangible value, such as birth-control pills. Unless she is banging the doc at the clinic on campus, that's probably not defensible.
Joe, did you read her testimony, and just where did you come up with this from?
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:20 PM   #47
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Joe, did you read her testimony, and just where did you come up with this from?
Yes, I did read all of her testimony.

To paraphrase her testimony before the House Democratic Steering and Policy Committee:
Hi, my name is Sandra Fluke. I am knowingly and voluntarily attending a Jesuit-Catholic university (one whose policies reflect the beliefs and traditions of the church). Despite the fact that I have chosen to attend this university of my own volition, I am upset that the student health plan does not pay for birth control pills, even though I know that the use of birth control pills and the concept of extra-marital intercourse is contrary to the traditional viewpoints of the Catholic church.

I cannot afford to pay for birth control pills on my own, and I find the use of condoms to be unsatisfactory, so I want somebody else to pay for my birth control pills so that I can have unprotected sex in a consequence-free environment. Thank you.
Full text of her testimony here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Sandra...2_February_23)


Definition of the word "****" from the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
a : a promiscuous woman; especially : prostitute
b : a saucy girl : minx
Sandra Fluke is definitely a **** from the point of view of the Catholic Church, which is relevant given the context of who she expects to pay for her birth control pills. She is probably not a prostitute in any legally-recognizable sense of the word.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:34 PM   #48
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Without insurance coverage, contraception can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary. Forty percent of female students at Georgetown Law report struggling financially as a result of this policy. One told us of how embarrassed and powerless she felt when she was standing at the pharmacy counter, learning for the first time that contraception wasn’t covered, and had to walk away because she couldn’t afford it. Women like her have no choice but to go without contraception. Just last week, a married female student told me she had to stop using contraception because she couldn’t afford it any longer. Women employed in low wage jobs without contraceptive coverage face the same choice.
I am surprised, Joe. Either I'm misreading that, or you are playing unusually loose and fast with definitions for you.

Seriously, this is the only part in her entire speech that can be taken this way, and the only paragraph that is not directly related to arguing for women's healthcare.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:03 PM   #49
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blaen, she's a -----, youre a statist-liberal. there's no denying it. you can say all you want, but thems da facts.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:13 PM   #50
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blaen, she's a -----, youre a statist-liberal. there's no denying it. you can say all you want, but thems da facts.
Very well Brainy. Then let's look at her entire speech.

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Leader Pelosi, Members of Congress, good morning, and thank you for calling this hearing on women’s health and allowing me to testify on behalf of the women who will benefit from the Affordable Care Act contraceptive coverage regulation. My name is Sandra Fluke, and I’m a third year student at Georgetown Law, a Jesuit school. I’m also a past president of Georgetown Law Students for Reproductive Justice or LSRJ. I’d like to acknowledge my fellow LSRJ members and allies and all of the student activists with us and thank them for being here today.
Oh, she's introducing herself. Okay, well, I don't know where you could get **** from that.

Quote:
Georgetown LSRJ is here today because we’re so grateful that this regulation implements the nonpartisan, medical advice of the Institute of Medicine. I attend a Jesuit law school that does not provide contraception coverage in its student health plan. Just as we students have faced financial, emotional, and medical burdens as a result, employees at religiously affiliated hospitals and universities across the country have suffered similar burdens. We are all grateful for the new regulation that will meet the critical health care needs of so many women. Simultaneously, the recently announced adjustment addresses any potential conflict with the religious identity of Catholic and Jesuit institutions.
So, she introduces her background. I don't see any promiscuity comments or sleeping around here, how about you Brainy?

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When I look around my campus, I see the faces of the women affected, and I have heard more and more of their stories. . On a daily basis, I hear from yet another woman from Georgetown or other schools or who works for a religiously affiliated employer who has suffered financial, emotional, and medical burdens because of this lack of contraceptive coverage. And so, I am here to share their voices and I thank you for allowing them to be heard.
Is she calling the entire campus ***** here Brainy?

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Without insurance coverage, contraception can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary. Forty percent of female students at Georgetown Law report struggling financially as a result of this policy. One told us of how embarrassed and powerless she felt when she was standing at the pharmacy counter, learning for the first time that contraception wasn’t covered, and had to walk away because she couldn’t afford it. Women like her have no choice but to go without contraception. Just last week, a married female student told me she had to stop using contraception because she couldn’t afford it any longer. Women employed in low wage jobs without contraceptive coverage face the same choice.
So, she cites the cost of contraceptive care, notes that she's on a scholarship, and the cost of contraceptive care equals an entire summer's salary. She relates personal stories of people who are affected, damn, she MUST be a **** for knowing people who use contraception, right Brainy? (Sarcasm)

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You might respond that contraception is accessible in lots of other ways. Unfortunately, that’s not true. Women’s health clinics provide vital medical services, but as the Guttmacher Institute has documented, clinics are unable to meet the crushing demand for these services. Clinics are closing and women are being forced to go without. How can Congress consider the Fortenberry, Rubio, and Blunt legislation that would allow even more employers and institutions to refuse contraceptive coverage and then respond that the non-profit clinics should step up to take care of the resulting medical crisis, particularly when so many legislators are attempting to defund those very same clinics?
Okay. I'm not seeing "****" here, although she is calling the Republicans out on their hypocrisy.

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These denials of contraceptive coverage impact real people. In the worst cases, women who need this medication for other medical reasons suffer dire consequences. A friend of mine, for example, has polycystic ovarian syndrome and has to take prescription birth control to stop cysts from growing on her ovaries. Her prescription is technically covered by Georgetown insurance because it’s not intended to prevent pregnancy. Under many religious institutions’ insurance plans, it wouldn’t be, and under Senator Blunt’s amendment, Senator Rubio’s bill, or Representative Fortenberry’s bill, there’s no requirement that an exception be made for such medical needs. When they do exist, these exceptions don’t accomplish their well-intended goals because when you let university administrators or other employers, rather than women and their doctors, dictate whose medical needs are legitimate and whose aren’t, a woman’s health takes a back seat to a bureaucracy focused on policing her body.
Still not understanding how this paragraph can lead to her self-identifying as a ****.

Quote:
In sixty-five percent of cases, our female students were interrogated by insurance representatives and university medical staff about why they needed these prescriptions and whether they were lying about their symptoms. For my friend, and 20% of women in her situation, she never got the insurance company to cover her prescription, despite verification of her illness from her doctor. Her claim was denied repeatedly on the assumption that she really wanted the birth control to prevent pregnancy. She’s gay, so clearly polycystic ovarian syndrome was a much more urgent concern than accidental pregnancy. After months of paying over $100 out of pocket, she just couldn’t afford her medication anymore and had to stop taking it. I learned about all of this when I walked out of a test and got a message from her that in the middle of her final exam period she’d been in the emergency room all night in excruciating pain. She wrote, “It was so painful, I woke up thinking I’d been shot.” Without her taking the birth control, a massive cyst the size of a tennis ball had grown on her ovary. She had to have surgery to remove her entire ovary. On the morning I was originally scheduled to give this testimony, she sat in a doctor’s office. Since last year’s surgery, she’s been experiencing night sweats, weight gain, and other symptoms of early menopause as a result of the removal of her ovary. She’s 32 years old. As she put it: “If my body indeed does enter early menopause, no fertility specialist in the world will be able to help me have my own children. I will have no chance at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies, simply because the insurance policy that I paid for totally unsubsidized by my school wouldn’t cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it.” Now, in addition to potentially facing the health complications that come with having menopause at an early age-- increased risk of cancer, heart disease, and osteoporosis, she may never be able to conceive a child.
Still not understanding.

Quote:
Perhaps you think my friend’s tragic story is rare. It’s not. One woman told us doctors believe she has endometriosis, but it can’t be proven without surgery, so the insurance hasn’t been willing to cover her medication. Recently, another friend of mine told me that she also has polycystic ovarian syndrome. She’s struggling to pay for her medication and is terrified to not have access to it. Due to the barriers erected by Georgetown’s policy, she hasn’t been reimbursed for her medication since last August. I sincerely pray that we don’t have to wait until she loses an ovary or is diagnosed with cancer before her needs and the needs of all of these women are taken seriously.
She has a friend with PCOS. She must be a **** by association, right Brainy?

Quote:
This is the message that not requiring coverage of contraception sends. A woman’s reproductive healthcare isn’t a necessity, isn’t a priority. One student told us that she knew birth control wasn’t covered, and she assumed that’s how Georgetown’s insurance handled all of women’s sexual healthcare, so when she was raped, she didn’t go to the doctor even to be examined or tested for sexually transmitted infections because she thought insurance wasn’t going to cover something like that, something that was related to a woman’s reproductive health. As one student put it, “this policy communicates to female students that our school doesn’t understand our needs.” These are not feelings that male fellow students experience. And they’re not burdens that male students must shoulder.
She had a friend who was raped, she MUST be a **** who wants free contraceptives for sex all over the campus, right Brainy?

Quote:
In the media lately, conservative Catholic organizations have been asking: what did we expect when we enrolled at a Catholic school? We can only answer that we expected women to be treated equally, to not have our school create untenable burdens that impede our academic success. We expected that our schools would live up to the Jesuit creed of cura personalis, to care for the whole person, by meeting all of our medical needs. We expected that when we told our universities of the problems this policy created for students, they would help us. We expected that when 94% of students opposed the policy, the university would respect our choices regarding insurance students pay for completely unsubsidized by the university. We did not expect that women would be told in the national media that if we wanted comprehensive insurance that met our needs, not just those of men, we should have gone to school elsewhere, even if that meant a less prestigious university. We refuse to pick between a quality education and our health, and weresent that, in the 21 st century, anyone thinks it’s acceptable to ask us to make this choice simply because we are women.
And the people here who *claim* to be free market types may want to read the bolded part. But damn, she MUST be a **** because she wants unsubsidized insurance that SHE pays for to cover her medical needs, right?

Quote:
Many of the women whose stories I’ve shared are Catholic women, so ours is not a war against the church. It is a struggle for access to the healthcare we need. The President of the Association of Jesuit Colleges has shared that Jesuit colleges and universities appreciate the modification to the rule announced last week. Religious concerns are addressed and women get the healthcare they need. That is something we can all agree on. Thank you.
Daaaamn, no she di'nt! Oh snap, no she DI'NT Brainy!
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:24 PM   #51
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I am surprised, Joe. Either I'm misreading that, or you are playing unusually loose and fast with definitions for you.
Hehe. Loose and Fast, just like Sandra Fluke.


Seriously, though. How am I distorting the facts? Georgetown is a Jesuit-Catholic university. It was founded by John Carroll, an Archbishop in the Catholic Church, and it is a founding member of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities. The university's own website refers prominently to:
  • Catholicism’s rich and diverse intellectual tradition
  • A "Commitment to Faith"
  • Georgetown's mission to integrate learning, faith and service through a broad array of programs, and
  • Our Catholic and Jesuit identity and respectfully engaging the particular traditions represented in our community

The Catholic Church has historically taken a very public stance against contraception. Why is it reasonable for a student at a Catholic university to demand that the university's student healthcare plan pay for something that the Catholic church opposes?
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #52
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Oh life is so hard. I can afford to go to a $60,000 a year school but i can't walk down the street to one of the three local planned parnethoods and get birth control for $20/mo a pop.

only if you go to school for over 12 years will that equal more than $3,000.


all hearsay, all half truths, all entitled-moronic-*****.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Hehe. Loose and Fast, just like Sandra Fluke.


Seriously, though. How am I distorting the facts? Georgetown is a Jesuit-Catholic university. It was founded by John Carroll, an Archbishop in the Catholic Church, and it is a founding member of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities. The university's own website refers prominently to:
  • Catholicism’s rich and diverse intellectual tradition
  • A "Commitment to Faith"
  • Georgetown's mission to integrate learning, faith and service through a broad array of programs, and
  • Our Catholic and Jesuit identity and respectfully engaging the particular traditions represented in our community
All right, so have we gotten past the stale and tired "She said she was a ****!" argument then Joe?

Quote:
The Catholic Church has historically taken a very public stance against contraception. Why is it reasonable for a student at a Catholic university to demand that the university's student healthcare plan pay for something that the Catholic church opposes?
I would understand - if it was something that the university subsidized and it was solely for contraception used for birth control. The university doesn't pay a damn dime to it, and Fluke provided a great deal of detail where the university and insurance company were violating their provided contract when the contraception was used for non-birth control purposes.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:34 PM   #54
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did she? because apparently someone got a huge ovanian cyst and was denied coverage for birth control.


first off birth control treatment does not prevent them and would not have helped "her friend" in this case.

and second massive tennis ball cysts aren't a symptom of polycystic ovary syndrome.


weird huh? but hearsay is admissable in court.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:36 PM   #55
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did she? because apparently someone got ovanian cysts and was denied soverage.

birth control does not prevent them.
Brainy, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how PCOS works.

http://www.inciid.org/faq.php?cat=infertility101&id=2 will hopefully clear up some of those misconceptions. As a bonus, I found a site that has "Cat" in the link just for you.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:38 PM   #56
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but i can't walk down the street to one of the three local planned parnethoods and get birth control for $20/mo a pop.
Actually, they are $9 per month at the Columbia Heights Target pharmacy 3 miles from the Georgetown Law campus. It says so right at the Target website: http://sites.target.com/site/en/spot...rugs_condition (scroll all the way down to the bottom and look for "TRI-SPRINTEC 28-DAY" under Women's Health.)


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All right, so have we gotten past the stale and tired "She said she was a ****!" argument then Joe?
Well, it's kind of tangential to the core argument, but I still don't see how you can argue that a woman who, in the context of being a student at a Catholic university, says "I want you to give me free birth control pills so that I can have unprotected sex with a person who I am not married to for the purpose of recreation," has not self-identified as a member of the group "****" as it would be defined by the church.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, as I find strong-willed, politically-motivated women sexy, so the more loose law school students we have in the country, the better my odds get.


Also, this thread seems to be drifting, so I want to be clear that I'm referring only to the **** who stood up in front of Congress to demand free birth control pills, not her allegedly cyst-riddled friend who couldn't figure out how to go to a free clinic and who may or may not be a hottie. (I haven't seen a picture.)
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:42 PM   #57
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Actually, they are $9 per month at the Columbia Heights Target pharmacy 3 miles from the Georgetown Law campus. It says so right at the Target website: http://sites.target.com/site/en/spot...rugs_condition (scroll all the way down to the bottom and look for "TRI-SPRINTEC 28-DAY" under Women's Health.)
Yes, and I hear we all throw eBay stuff on every part of our cars. The ebay parts may work for some specific applications, Joe, but other types of contraceptive can get very expensive - and arguing that kind of contraception works for certain issues is about as effective as arguing that an eBay manifold works for Failflora's 600hp build.

Quote:
Well, it's kind of tangential to the core argument, but I still don't see how you can argue that a woman who, in the context of being a student at a Catholic university, says "I want you to give me free birth control pills so that I can have unprotected sex with a person who I am not married to for the purpose of recreation," has not self-identified as a member of the group "****" as it would be defined by the church.
And yet, I've even quoted her entire speech, and went through the whole goddamn thing to disprove the myth that she said this, Joe. Please, point out to me ANY point in which she said any of this.

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I'm not saying that's a bad thing, as I find strong-willed, politically-motivated women sexy, so the more loose law school students we have in the country, the better my odds get.
Nice tie-in
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:42 PM   #58
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Brainy, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how PCOS works.

show me where it says that you can get huge cysts and where birth control pills will treat them, prevent them, or reduce the size of them.


im calling her a **** because i can. i dont give a flying fart what she said to her pal polesi and what she assumsed when enrolling in a private institution with their own rules.

i know everything im covered under my health care plan, and i went to art school.

and honestly, if you want to play that game, rush techincally called her a prostitute and not a ****.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:48 PM   #59
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show me where it says that you can get huge cysts and where birth control pills will treat them, prevent them, or reduce the size of them.
I'm just going to point you again to the link, and entreat you to read the quotation fully again.

But just for you...http://ovarian-cyst-relief.com/pcos-...this-condition

Quote:
How can ovarian cysts be treated?

The methods used to treat ovarian cysts depend on the type of cysts and the severity of the symptoms associated with ovarian cysts or PCOS. If cysts are small and benign and are causing no symptoms, your doctor may advise you to wait for the cysts to go away on their own, following up with another pelvic exam and ultrasound in about six weeks. If the cysts do not go away on their own or grow even larger, other measures will be taken. One of these measures includes taking birth control pills. Birth control pills can possibly help the ovarian cyst shrink by changing the hormone levels within the body. Not only can birth control pills help shrink cysts, they also may prevent other cysts from growing.
That site is not comprehensive like the last, but FFS, if I have to do that, I'll do that.

P.S. This is where all birth control is not the same originates from.

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im calling her a **** because i can. i dont give a flying fart what she said.
Roger, so you don't care about the truth or facts of the situation, and just want to say what you want to have happened by putting words in her mouth that she didn't say in the first place?

Damn, this sounds like a recent argument.

P.S. I'm enjoying the ninja edits guys, I'm going to just sit and wait a few minutes before posting in the future. And totally engaging in massive ninja edits myself at this point.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:53 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
I would understand - if it was something that the university subsidized and it was solely for contraception used for birth control. The university doesn't pay a damn dime to it, and Fluke provided a great deal of detail where the university and insurance company were violating their provided contract when the contraception was used for non-birth control purposes.
Assuming the above is all true and the insurance policy does not have specific exclusions for contraceptive-focused prescriptions, maybe you have a contract violation.

My question is, if the students genuinely pay 100% of the insurance premiums (aka they are totally unsubsidized by the university or anyone else), then why can't she just go get private health insurance that is tailored to her specific needs and desires? If there are enough female students with the same issues, why don't they form a group and go get group health insurance policies?
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