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Old 10-12-2010, 10:11 PM   #21
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Larger turbo won't spool faster than a smaller one. It does, however, generate low pressure at low rpm (approx 3-5psi or so at around 2.5-3k on a 1.8 with a 30r is what I observed with mine) and since it flows more than a small one its not exactly "dead" down there like some here think.

So while you won't make more boost or more power down low with a larger turbo, it definitely won't be completely lifeless at say, 3k or so.

Of course by larger we're not talking about a 42r or something ungodly.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I have seen in person on a dynojet a GT2560 hit 300hp at the wheels at the North East Dyno Days in the past. It was one of the Jersey Crew guys.
Yeah, Paul did over 300rwhp dynojet at the DE dyno days, with an absurdflow exhaust T2 mani & 3" TBE, and the 2560, 14psi, megasquirt, 99 head, BEGI cast aluminum intake, 70mm TB. Artieparty and saintfoo were lower (290's?) with similar setups on the same dyno.


regarding the 2871, there's at least 3 different compressor trims (size compressor wheels) that are all called "2871". Sav's got a 52trim IIRC, there's also a 48 & 56 trim. All would flow & spool differently. Add the different turbine A/R's, vband options, etc....almost as bad as the GT30's. Ehh, Go V8.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:48 PM   #23
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A good GT2560 setup for example, will do about >170 ft-lbs at something like 3100 RPM.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
A good GT2560 setup for example, will do about >170 ft-lbs at something like 3100 RPM.
You mean like 200 ft-lbs.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
regarding the 2871, there's at least 3 different compressor trims (size compressor wheels) that are all called "2871". Sav's got a 52trim IIRC, there's also a 48 & 56 trim. All would flow & spool differently. Add the different turbine A/R's, vband options, etc....almost as bad as the GT30's. Ehh, Go V8.
from what i have observed the 56 trim is only the nissan replacement compressor housing but is rated for the same HP (flow charts are different but not that much) and probably is to make up for the shitty flowing inlet and discharge on that housing.
i have no datalogs for this though

the 52 trim seems to be the standard so it would be fair to assume this.

The 48 trim has smaller efficiency islands than the 52 and the 52 covers the same areas, so this turbo never makes sense.


i know you didnt ask but im bored and have had a few mgd's.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
You mean like 200 ft-lbs.
Ya that would be an "exceptional" setup, not a "good" setup.
Again though dem's dynojet ft-lbs, but yea.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
from what i have observed the 56 trim is only the nissan replacement compressor housing but is rated for the same HP (flow charts are different but not that much) and probably is to make up for the shitty flowing inlet and discharge on that housing.
i have no datalogs for this though

the 52 trim seems to be the standard so it would be fair to assume this.

The 48 trim has smaller efficiency islands than the 52 and the 52 covers the same areas, so this turbo never makes sense.


i know you didnt ask but im bored and have had a few mgd's.
nah that's cool, good to hear someone's idea. Makes sense to me
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Ya that would be an "exceptional" setup, not a "good" setup.
Again though dem's dynojet ft-lbs, but yea.
I want that dyno with V-Bands and I would be in heaven personally.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:34 AM   #29
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i want that dyno, but bump it up to 330 wtq flat and 400whp
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
i have no datalogs for this though
Lol. Thanks sjmarcy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURNS101 View Post
Very nice. Now see, I am very much into(jeleous) that 25ftlbs more you have at 3500. That is a big difference for me.
I am
9:1
1800cc
99 head
+1mm valves on both sides
head is cleaned up. All casting marked ect have been smoothed. Minimal bowl work.
AEM EMS V2
880 injectors
110 leaded fuel
Stock intake manifold gutted
Stock TB smoothed out
BEGI cast exh manifold
Genuine Garrett 2871r with garrett .64 exh
3" DP and exhaust all mandrel
I need to make some changes and that .86 doesnt sound to bad right now.
I have to research that VVT head..

Thanks for the post Sav
So it sounds like your head flows better than Andrew's but he's got the VVT thing going to fatten up the bottom to mid.

Change those two manifolds and do what you did to your head on a 01+

Just curious, what are you running for an intercooler?
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:28 AM   #31
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My IC is the one that comes with the BEGO series 5. I got it like 3.5 yrs ago
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:40 AM   #32
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This is the GT2871r I had in mind its the 56 trim but its not a nissan replacement!!!http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_743347_2.htm
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:55 AM   #33
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I'm going to ask a question that will hopefully be relevant to building this setup, and to me as well.

What parts would significantly reduce overall power production assuming that the tune is good.

We will use my setup as the example>

Built 1.8 motor, a little head work on a 99 head, 1.6TB, Artech log replacement manifold, DP and exhaust (3"), Old FM IC wth 2" turbo piping from turbo to TB.

China turbo:

Claimed Turbo specs:

Ideal for smaller displacement engines making up to 420hp
Compressor Wheel
0.60 A/R Cold Side
Ind: 54.00 mm
Exd: 70 mm
Trim: 60
Turbiner Wheel
.64 A/R
Garrett 4 Bolt T25 Flange
Ind: 52.90 mm
Exd: 45.47 mm

Rough estimate actual turbo specs measured with caliper:

Compressor
Ind53.1mm
Exd 69.7mm

exhaust
Ind 51.7mm
Exd 45.7mm

Output was a little over 280HP and 250 ft lb at 19psi

IS the turbo the difference, or can something in the setup inhibit power.

I think this is important to answer. If people have certain power goals in mind, then the china turbo may not be the route to take. OR it may mean that you need to go larger. Maybe I should have gone with something like this....

GODSPEED gt3076r turbo charger (no wastegate)

Intake :4 inch
Outlet: 2.5 inch
Compressor trim: .70 ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 57.89 /72.95
Turbine wheel diameter :46.75/ 53.80
Exhaust trim: .86ar
Turbine flange type: t25 flange
Downpipe flange type : 5 bolt
Cooling type: oil and water cool
Horsepower rating: 300-480hp
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:05 PM   #34
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get a real garrett 2871R and send it to forced performance for some HTA action (i know its not on their site... i emailed them about it) the billet aluminum compressor wheels supposedly are lighter thus spooling a little faster due to reduced centrifugal weight and are designed to flow more.

boost 35psi on a 2871 and make 450hp with equal response.
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:53 PM   #35
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Mods, can we clean this thread up of all this "datalog" fuckery? It's a good thread and IMO it should continue.
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Mods, can we clean this thread up of all this "datalog" fuckery? It's a good thread and IMO it should continue.
Yes, keep this thread on topic. We've waited quite a while to get a similar turbo comparison on the books. Please visit the "insert BS here" forum for horse ****, and if you want to cry over spilled milk you can visit the front desk to cry and whine.

Keep the forum holy or I'll creatively misquote you, which you can then create a thread about in the "front desk" forum.
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Old 10-13-2010, 04:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post

China turbo:
Rough estimate actual turbo specs measured with caliper:

Compressor
Ind53.1mm
Exd 69.7mm

exhaust
Ind 51.7mm
Exd 45.7mm

Output was a little over 280HP and 250 ft lb at 19psi

IS the turbo the difference, or can something in the setup inhibit power.
I don't think anything in your setup is inhbiting power, unless you have an intake cam gear misaligned or something else you don't know about. Confirm timing, confirm actual TDC vs. TDC as seen on the balancer (there's a car at the shop right now that slipped its balancer to the tune of 30+ degrees), etc.

Beyond that, we can start comparing specs. The comp wheels are identical. Yours are 53.1/69.7, whereas a real Garrett 71mm is at 53.1/71.0.

Turbine wheels are different, though. Yours are 51.7/45.7 (~78trim), Garrett says 53.8/46.9 (76trim). If I had the turbo in-hand, I would want to measure for A/R and go from there - I bet the A/R is smaller than they quote you, and that's restricting top end power.
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I don't think anything in your setup is inhbiting power, unless you have an intake cam gear misaligned or something else you don't know about. Confirm timing, confirm actual TDC vs. TDC as seen on the balancer (there's a car at the shop right now that slipped its balancer to the tune of 30+ degrees), etc.

Beyond that, we can start comparing specs. The comp wheels are identical. Yours are 53.1/69.7, whereas a real Garrett 71mm is at 53.1/71.0.

Turbine wheels are different, though. Yours are 51.7/45.7 (~78trim), Garrett says 53.8/46.9 (76trim). If I had the turbo in-hand, I would want to measure for A/R and go from there - I bet the A/R is smaller than they quote you, and that's restricting top end power.
I'll check the timing before my track event this weekend. I am then going to try to get a real garrett turbo and do a couple of dyno pulls in town. It will be nice to have that kind of data on hand.
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:50 PM   #39
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Do it!

You have a friend withj the same turbo, but actual garrett?
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:06 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
Do it!

You have a friend withj the same turbo, but actual garrett?
No, but I'm willing to bet that the dyno guy here in town probably has one. I also think this is data that he would like to have when it comes to building cars for clients. Genesplicer has a turbo guy, and he might be willing to give us something to play with. I only just now decided to peruse this comparison, so it will take some time to unfold.
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